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Old 2006-01-20, 18:39   Link #21
Guido
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According to the limited facts I gathered from both the game and starting to watch the anime.....

Spoiler:
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Old 2006-01-20, 18:48   Link #22
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido
According to the limited facts I gathered from both the game and starting to watch the anime.....

Spoiler:
Mana is basically the source of magic power for magicians (sorry, I don't know how the English wording is used for majutsu and majutsushi).

Last edited by kj1980; 2006-01-20 at 19:28.
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Old 2006-01-20, 18:49   Link #23
ZGMF-X10A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido
According to the limited facts I gathered from both the game and starting to watch the anime.....

Spoiler:

The masters are magicians aren't they... so they must have mana for the servants to use.
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Old 2006-01-20, 19:27   Link #24
Sushi-Y
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I mentioned this before, but if I were to translate some key terms from Fate, they'd be:

魔術(majutsu) - Magic
魔術師(majutsushi) - Magician (ie. Rin)
魔術使い(majutsutsukai) - Magic User (ie. Shirou)
魔法(mahou) - Sorcery
魔法使い(mahoutsukai) - Mage
魔力(maryoku) - Magic Power or Mana (Although Mana is also used to describe magic powers that exist in nature, as opposed to Odo for the magic powers that exist within oneself)
魔術回路(majutsu kairo) - Magic Circuit
令呪(reiju) - Command Seal
宝具(hougu) - Noble Phantasm
固有結界(koyuukekkai) - Reality Marble

I think it's similiar, if not the same, with the what the guys over at insani used?
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Old 2006-01-20, 19:32   Link #25
Nightengale
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Going by insani's tl :

Rin = Magi
Shirou = Magic User
Aozaki = Magician
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Old 2006-01-20, 20:01   Link #26
Mr. Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale
Going by insani's tl :

Rin = Magi
Shirou = Magic User
Aozaki = Magician
Yeah, that's what they have.

Sushi-Y, on your list, what would the likes of Aoko and Zelretch be classified as if they aren't magicians?
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Old 2006-01-20, 20:06   Link #27
roan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Y
I mentioned this before, but if I were to translate some key terms from Fate, they'd be:

魔術(majutsu) - Magic
魔術師(majutsushi) - Magician (ie. Rin)
魔術使い(majutsutsukai) - Magic User (ie. Shirou)
魔法(mahou) - Sorcery
魔法使い(mahoutsukai) - Mage
魔力(maryoku) - Magic Power or Mana (Although Mana is also used to describe magic powers that exist in nature, as opposed to Odo for the magic powers that exist within oneself)
魔術回路(majutsu kairo) - Magic Circuit
令呪(reiju) - Command Seal
宝具(hougu) - Noble Phantasm
固有結界(koyuukekkai) - Reality Marble

I think it's similiar, if not the same, with the what the guys over at insani used?
i believe that 魔術師 is actually referred to as メイガス in the game. at least according to the youogoshuu on the web.

also, the terminology is probably going to get confused later on, since moonlit world has been using 魔法 as magic and 魔術 as sorcery.
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Old 2006-01-20, 20:33   Link #28
Sushi-Y
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Guy
Sushi-Y, on your list, what would the likes of Aoko and Zelretch be classified as if they aren't magicians?
魔法使い, mages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roan
i believe that 魔術師 is actually referred to as メイガス in the game. at least according to the youogoshuu on the web.

also, the terminology is probably going to get confused later on, since moonlit world has been using 魔法 as magic and 魔術 as sorcery.
The "magus" reference came up when Saber was talking about... er, spoiler. But yes, it's true there's a suggestion that 魔術師 = Magus (I mean, it's in the game's subtitle catch phrase thing "I have a secret I haven't told you, I'm a Magi")

The main reason why I go by the reverse usage is because, in Nasu's world, 魔法 is obviously greater and more of a miraculous mystery compared to 魔術, which is something that anyone, with some talent, can learn to do.

Compare that with the English words "magic" and "sorcery". "Magic" is a much more commonly used word than "sorcery", and because of the reference to modern day stage shows, "magic", in my opinion, doesn't have the feel of "mysterious miracles" to it anymore. "Sorcery", on the other hand, brings up images of mages and wizards and miracles that's unable to be reproduced by a normal human being.

If you think about it, that's exactly how Nasu described 魔法 and 魔術 too.

Most 魔術 (using magic powers to perform something that could be reproduced in another way) were at one time 魔法 (miracles, impossible to reproduce through normal means), but as human technology become advanced, what used to be 魔法 was degraded down to 魔術 (500 years ago, the ability to produce fire at the flick of a finger might be 魔法, but with modern lighters, it became nothing more than 魔術).

For the same reason, what people used to believe to be "wizardry" or "sorceries" before might be nothing more than "magic tricks" to the modern people now.

In any case, that's my argument, but if there's already a wide understanding of 魔術=sorcery and 魔法=magic, then I won't fight it. I'm simply saying what I would've translated it as.
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Old 2006-01-21, 00:00   Link #29
Decagon
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Thanks to Nightengale and Sushi-Y for the responses.

'Nother question coming up: I let indiscretion get the better part of me and I read summaries for the scenarios. I won't say anything about them, but I was wondering if it would be safe to assume that if the anime does not reveal it, we can say it never happened (in the path the anime follows)? So as to not spoil something, can we say a character's background can be changed depending on what path gets the most/least exposure?

I ask this because a particular character seems quite endearing, but the scenario seems to be quite remniscent of a different character's background in a different story.
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Old 2006-01-21, 02:13   Link #30
monster
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Are there only seven specific servants: one Saber, one Archer, etc. Like, is that girl who appeared at the end of episode 2 the only Saber class servant? Or are there other Saber class servants and Emiya just happened to summon her. Because she seemed to have taken part in a previous war.
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Old 2006-01-21, 02:32   Link #31
Village Idiot
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There are numerous people in each catagory of Servants.

For example...

*this is not an anime spoiler*

Alexander the Great was the Rider of the previous War.

Normally, the people representing each class of Servants are randomized for each Grail War. However, a Master can summon a specific person/Servant by possessing an object that is linked to that person.
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Old 2006-01-21, 02:41   Link #32
monster
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I see, that's good to hear. Another question: can a Master be summoned in the future as someone's Servant?
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Old 2006-01-21, 02:48   Link #33
ctrl-z
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Servants are "heroic spirits" that have been summoned to fight in the Grail War... So if a Master becomes a heroic spirit in the future, then the Master could be summoned as a Servant.

Spoiler for Not sure if this is really a spoiler...:
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Old 2006-01-21, 02:53   Link #34
monster
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What's heroic spirit? And how do you become one? Sorry for asking a lot of questions, it's just so interesting and all. If you know/think these will be explained later on in the anime then they don't have to be answered. But I'd be grateful if someone does answer anyway.
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Old 2006-01-21, 03:03   Link #35
F!reStr!fe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monstert
What's heroic spirit? And how do you become one? Sorry for asking a lot of questions, it's just so interesting and all. If you know/think these will be explained later on in the anime then they don't have to be answered. But I'd be grateful if someone does answer anyway.
A heroic spirit if i take it from what i have read and seen is like a great warrior (or some sort of person of legend) who makes a pact for the holy grail to use it to change their lives if they win it with their masters.
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Old 2006-01-21, 03:09   Link #36
monster
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Great, thanks for those who've answered.
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Old 2006-01-21, 04:56   Link #37
JanthraX^
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Now, this mana thing i know that the servants need this to stay strong and healthy, BUT will the master affect the strength of the servant becuase of their mana levels, say archer can easily beat saber because of the difference in skill between their masters.
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Old 2006-01-21, 05:33   Link #38
Sushi-Y
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanthraX^
Now, this mana thing i know that the servants need this to stay strong and healthy, BUT will the master affect the strength of the servant becuase of their mana levels, say archer can easily beat saber because of the difference in skill between their masters.
Correct, although the incredible amount of magic power that's needed to summon the servants is provided by the Holy Grail, all the servants rely on their masters to provide them with magic powers to keep themselves functioning. The contract comes with a link between the servant and master, and magic power is automatically provided to the servant through that link. (Although in Shirou and Saber's case, as indicated in episode 3, Saber isn't receiving any magic power from Shirou)

The strength of the master as a magician also affects the servant:
Strong magician = more magic power = more supply for the servant = stronger servant.

In other words, since Shirou is providing Saber with close to nothing, her powers are being greatly restricted.

But class is still very important, no matter how lousy the master is, a Saber class will (most likely) not lose to an Archer class in a melee battle.
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Old 2006-01-21, 06:48   Link #39
JanthraX^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Y
Correct, although the incredible amount of magic power that's needed to summon the servants is provided by the Holy Grail, all the servants rely on their masters to provide them with magic powers to keep themselves functioning. The contract comes with a link between the servant and master, and magic power is automatically provided to the servant through that link. (Although in Shirou and Saber's case, as indicated in episode 3, Saber isn't receiving any magic power from Shirou)

The strength of the master as a magician also affects the servant:
Strong magician = more magic power = more supply for the servant = stronger servant.

In other words, since Shirou is providing Saber with close to nothing, her powers are being greatly restricted.

But class is still very important, no matter how lousy the master is, a Saber class will (most likely) not lose to an Archer class in a melee battle.
AHHH, so tactics when the servants engage are very important, eg keeping Archer at a distance as his class is long range, BUT does the master need to always manage the servant (micro-manage if you will) or are the sufficently intelligent and knowledge able about themselves ?
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Old 2006-01-21, 06:50   Link #40
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Quote:
all the servants rely on their masters to provide them with magic powers to keep themselves functioning. The contract comes with a link between the servant and master, and magic power is automatically provided to the servant through that link.
*cought*PACTIO*cough* <_<

Quote:
But class is still very important, no matter how lousy the master is, a Saber class will (most likely) not lose to an Archer class in a melee battle.
Spoiler:
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