[Manga] Naruto Chapter 617 Discussion Thread

[Midnight Commander]

Rinnegan is more than a "utility power". We really only had a glimpse of how one could use it with seemingly full killing intent when the Edo-Nagato nearly killed both Bee and Naruto quite easily in little time. I'm still suprised that people still want Naruto to receive more power-ups at this point, especially something like the rinnegan, despite what he's been able to accomplish and the amount Naruto fanservice we've been bombarded with in this arc. I guess its just never enough for some people.

[Dengar]

I never claimed utility powers can't be deadly. The opposite is quite true. But a utility power is still what it is, and not the type of power that would be used by Naruto, since he's much more straightforward.

[TimeMask]

One of the biggest reasons I don't see Naruto getting Rinnegan is that he may not be able to turn it off.

And even if he could he may have black eyes if he transplanted the Rinnegan Obito has as Madara had black eyes when his doujutsu is turned off.

[Ulquiorra]

I agree with Captain Commando. Enough with the Naruto power-ups! He can power up an entire army that could tear apart Sasuke or any threat. That is enough!

Originally Posted by The Small One

Though it makes me wonder if this was a good idea. Without those two, who knows what the Juubi is going to do now. It doesn't need to care about hurting someone.

And that is why Shikaku's entire plan working depends on Shikamaru(and the fodder Nara we don't care about) being able to hold the Juubi for a good chunk of time while the Alliance attacks Obito and Madara.

It is a given something will happen to him to free the Juubi. He won't die since he isn't fodder like Neji, but the Juubi has to get free.

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I never claimed utility powers can't be deadly. The opposite is quite true. But a utility power is still what it is, and not the type of power that would be used by Naruto, since he's much more straightforward.

...And I never claimed you said they can't be deadly. I'm just saying that I wouldn't categorize the rinnegan as a utility power since it's abilities are quite obviously a superset of "utility". It's just capable of so many things, both deadly and supportive alike; hence me saying its more than a utility power.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

He can power up an entire army that could tear apart Sasuke or any threat. That is enough!

I don't get where this is coming from. If Sasuke has even half the power of Madara with his EMS, then the powered up Konoha 1110 would still do nothing (or did we forget Madara being able to summon meteorites from space (supposedly with the help of the Rinnegan), or his Susano'o that can destroy mountains?). Hell, just using Amaterasu and its many forms would destroy most of a powered-up army let alone just a few. Additionally, don't mistake Madara's lack of participation in this fight, nor the Jyuubi underwhelming performance, with the actual power of either, or the power of the army that is fighting both.

As it is, this whole powering up others tripe is just symbolic. This chapters massive attack is from Naruto and the Kyuubi. He could have just as easily done the exact same thing with an army of Kyuubi-powered Kage Bushins. Let's not pretend that the army actually matters beyond being the warm bodies that they are.

[bonsobon]

Yeah, it's too early to judge how useful the powerups have been considering Obito and Madara haven't really done anything yet. I'm sure the next couple of chapters will answer that question one way or the other.

Also as an aside what do people here think of Kurama's emerging personality now that he's working with Naruto and not being so angry all the time?

[amaterasu4]

Originally Posted by bonsobon

Also as an aside what do people here think of Kurama's emerging personality now that he's working with Naruto and not being so angry all the time?

Just like the Hachibi predicted. He mentioned being previously very rude but became friends. The difference is that Kurama is more antisocial so when he was proud of Naruto he went "in your face Minato and Kushina."

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Dengar

In the end, the Rinnegan is a utility power. Since when has Naruto been about utility jutsu?

Since he learned Kage Bunshin in chapter one.

Originally Posted by bonsobon

Also as an aside what do people here think of Kurama's emerging personality now that he's working with Naruto and not being so angry all the time?

Tsundere Kyubi rightly belongs with Messiah Naruto and Incestous Sasuke.

[Dengar]

While I will admit that did not occur to me yet, I'm gonna have to call this the exception that proves the rule.

[King Lycan]

Originally Posted by 'Pryde

Madara should just Amaterasu everyone.

^ Always wondered about that

[itachi-san314]

madara can't amaterasu 'everyone'. we've seen A dodge it before so the few people with that speed (or barrier/summoning abilities) would avoid the attacks. and those few people are really the only ones madara needs to possibly strain himself when fighting. so he might as well just drop a meteor on the fodder ninja who couldn't avoid amaterasu like he already did a while back

[amaterasu4]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Tsundere Kyubi rightly belongs with Messiah Naruto and Incestous Sasuke.

Oh god that third one

I wouldn't like Naruto receiving the Rinnegan since he has Kurama's powers which was his objective ever since he met Jiraiya. Kurama and the other beasts mentioned that Naruto is the successor to the Rikudou Sennin but I hope it's just symbolic just like when the Beasts gave them their "strength." The Rinnegan would be more fitting to Sasuke.

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by james0246

As it is, this whole powering up others tripe is just symbolic. This chapters massive attack is from Naruto and the Kyuubi. He could have just as easily done the exact same thing with an army of Kyuubi-powered Kage Bushins. Let's not pretend that the army actually matters beyond being the warm bodies that they are.

Really now? I don't know about you, but it seems the author of this manga was trying to convey that Naruto actually needed these warm bodies. He was getting his arsed kicked before. Wasn't that what Itachi the Sage was trying to tell him? He was only as strong as his friends? You are forgetting that in Naruto, and most shonen manga, symbolism becomes actual reality. We are reading a fantasy story.

So I highly doubt he could of done the same things with an army of Kyuubi-powered Kage Bushins. At least he would of needed the Ino-Shika-Cho characters to stop the Juubi. Kishi wanted to showcase Naruto as a leader(although quite frankly, Shikaku is/was the real leader here) rather than a superhero.

As for Madara? Sadly, an all too common character in shonen. The invincible bad guy who loses due to his hubris. *yawn* Since Shippuden started, we've seem villains be ridiculously overpowered compared to Part 1, and the heroes appearing to have zero chance against them. Only through changing their hearts, or by exploiting their arrogance, can they defeat them. Then fans all run to various message boards and scream, "asspull!" and "plot-no-jutsu!" when they finally lose.

So now we have an immortal being with unlimited chakra. Kishi cannot have him spam meteors from god to solo the army; or just kill Naruto and take the Kyuubi. So he has to take his arrogance to almost comical levels to explain why he doesn't take any threat seriously. And this is how he will lose. This allows the Alliance to have a chance against him. When Madara finally gets serious, it will be too late for him, and he will be defeated. Largely to show what Sasuke could of become without Naruto and Itachi. Good riddance

I hate these type of villains. That is why the Sound Four were the best villains in the manga. They were just slightly stronger than the heroes and overcoming them was believable.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Really now? I don't know about you, but it seems the author of this manga was trying to convey that Naruto actually needed these warm bodies. He was getting his arsed kicked before. Wasn't that what Itachi the Sage was trying to tell him? He was only as strong as his friends? You are forgetting that in Naruto, and most shonen manga, symbolism becomes actual reality. We are reading a fantasy story.

I am not disputing that Kishimoto's intention was to show a united symbolic ideal and front (I emphasized this in a previous post), with Naruto being at the forefront. But, everything we saw came directly from Naruto and the Kyuubi. The army couldn't have done their attack without Naruto, but Naruto could have done the attack without the army. Beyond moral support (which is a strength quantifier of variable value (similar to luck)), the army was just the warm bodies for the technique.

(Let me put it this way, if Lee has a key role in anything, then you know the role is pretty much pointless.)

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

At least he would of needed the Ino-Shika-Cho characters to stop the Juubi.

Now this is a good point. I forget what tubbers did, but the others were briefly needed for Naruto's technique to work. It's possible he could have still spammed enough clones for the technique to work, but that is less debatable than the extent the participation of the army mattered beyond being the warm bodies needed for the technique.

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

As for Madara? Sadly, an all too common character in shonen. The invincible bad guy who loses due to his hubris. *yawn* Since Shippuden started, we've seem villains be ridiculously overpowered compared to Part 1, and the heroes appearing to have zero chance against them. Only through changing their hearts, or by exploiting their arrogance, can they defeat them. Then fans all run to various message boards and scream, "asspull!" and "plot-no-jutsu!" when they finally lose.

So now we have an immortal being with unlimited chakra. Kishi cannot have him spam meteors from god to solo the army; or just kill Naruto and take the Kyuubi. So he has to take his arrogance to almost comical levels to explain why he doesn't take any threat seriously. And this is how he will lose. This allows the Alliance to have a chance against him. When Madara finally gets serious, it will be too late for him, and he will be defeated. Largely to show what Sasuke could of become without Naruto and Itachi. Good riddance

Not disputing the whole arrogance thing, nor the symbolic and thematic nature of Madara's being a foil for Sasuke, but I will say there are various ways Madara could be beaten without the asspull. Death God and Izanami chief among them (Izanami would force Madara to "accept his fate"...which should force him to relinquish his grasp on the mortal realm ala Sasori, or at least that's the hypothesis).

[b1gdawg]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

no he has no uchiha dna. naruto can't develop rinnegan and i doubt he would ever take sasuke's eyes even if sasuke offered, but thats probably the only way he would ever get rinnegan. i dont really see naruto ever having rinnegan. it's more of a sasuke ability than a naruto one

Well u never know, Just like Kishi recently told us that he comes from a long line of Senju, what if he comes from a long line of Uchiha? I really doubt it, people really wouldn't like it, but he does have the same seals around his neck like the Sage of Six Paths (idk if thats just the Senju in him or foreshadowing that he becomes like the Sage of Six Paths). And when naruto was fighting Nagato for the 2nd time (edo tensei) he was asking Nagato to teach him how to use his moves. Idk its probably nothing but w/e.

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

madara can't amaterasu 'everyone'. we've seen A dodge it before so the few people with that speed (or barrier/summoning abilities) would avoid the attacks. and those few people are really the only ones madara needs to possibly strain himself when fighting. so he might as well just drop a meteor on the fodder ninja who couldn't avoid amaterasu like he already did a while back

Also we don't know if Madara has amaterasu, some people presume he does since Itachi got amaterasu and tsukuyomi which unlocked his susanoo but this doesn't guarantee every Uchiha needs to have amaterasu to get susanoo.

Madara could have amaterasu but it depends on Kishimoto as he hasn't fully explained if you need amaterasu to get susanoo, we know you need at least 2 MS eyes to use susanoo though. (maybe along with other requirements to use susanoo).

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by b1gdawg

Well u never know, Just like Kishi recently told us that he comes from a long line of Senju, what if he comes from a long line of Uchiha? I really doubt it, people really wouldn't like it, but he does have the same seals around his neck like the Sage of Six Paths (idk if thats just the Senju in him or foreshadowing that he becomes like the Sage of Six Paths). And when naruto was fighting Nagato for the 2nd time (edo tensei) he was asking Nagato to teach him how to use his moves. Idk its probably nothing but w/e.

as i understand it, sasuke cant acquire the rinnegan with senju dna (or the life force within) and naruto cant acquire it without an eye transplant. naruto becoming the next sage is cool and all but he is only half of the original S0f6 lineage (sasuke of course being the other half). he resembles the sage because of the physical chakra/whatever carried in his uzumaki blood. (the question im most interested in having answered is who exactly are the uzumakis).
if either of the two will acquire the rinnegan it'll likely be sasuke, and if the true incarnation of the sage is to return to the story, imo it will be naruto and sasuke fighting together...

[b1gdawg]

Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime

as i understand it, sasuke cant acquire the rinnegan with senju dna (or the life force within) and naruto cant acquire it without an eye transplant. naruto becoming the next sage is cool and all but he is only half of the original S0f6 lineage (sasuke of course being the other half). he resembles the sage because of the physical chakra/whatever carried in his uzumaki blood. (the question im most interested in having answered is who exactly are the uzumakis).
if either of the two will acquire the rinnegan it'll likely be sasuke, and if the true incarnation of the sage is to return to the story, imo it will be naruto and sasuke fighting together...

well yah i agree with you, we don't really know who the Uzumaki's really are. Naruto is the only one really, kinda like how Sasuke was* the only Uchiha.

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by b1gdawg

well yah i agree with you, we don't really know who the Uzumaki's really are. Naruto is the only one really, kinda like how Sasuke was* the only Uchiha.

uzumaki nagato RIP. uzumaki karin. there is likely to be at least one more...im hoping (not expecting per se) that sasuke and co are on there way to meet them...