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Old 2013-01-25, 08:23   Link #301
SeijiSensei
AS Oji-kun
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mucking about
Age: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
No, no, no! The real question is who isn't a dick in this show?
(The answer is the ever-faithful Harada-sensei, of course)
How about Kana-chan and Desk-kun?

Sumire will come around. I can see an episode where she helps Kanade learn how to do makeup, and Kanade helps Sumire pick out her kimono.
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Old 2013-01-25, 08:44   Link #302
hyperborealis
Lost at Sea
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
No, it's just being a friend. Anyone who isn't an asshat, male or female, would know what to do in her place. And this isn't viewer's projection as the episode itself does rise the issue, as explained by Arya. That's why I don't think we should be trying to make excuses for her. She failed, she fucked up. That's ok, no one is perfect. And she's getting better too. The important thing to take away from this is that she's flawed, as flawed as Taichi, if in a different way. And that's a good thing.
There's no example of the Mizusawa team members consoling each other in the way you prescribe. The only example I can think of is the time Harada comforts Tsuboguchi after he loses the match for the right to face the meijin. But Harada can do that since he is Tsuboguchi's sensei. Otherwise, zip. Taichi himself does not, the time he sees Chihaya crying to herself after she loses at the nationals.

Quadratic has already supplied the relevant quotes, particularly Miyauchi-sensei's approving comment that the Mizusawa team does not comfort each. Chihayafuru seems to espouse a warrior ethic where individuals overcome their grief at losing on their own, and others do not intrude for fear of shaming them by noticing their loss of self-control.

I insist on all this to point out the cultural nuances you are losing, Kazu-kun, by falsely asserting your own ideal of friendship as a cultural universal.

The point of the scene in the lobby is to show us that Taichi needs to man up, or really to samurai up, and not that Chihaya needs to girl up, and become the karuta Counselor Troy from Star Trek Next Gen. Suetsugu has no interest in the modern therapeutic ethos you expect of Chihaya. Chihaya may be being Chihaya in the scene. But to make that the central point is a mistake.

Komano-sensei does reprove Chihaya for not being aware of Taichi's depression, and for not reporting Taichi's loss to the rest of the team. He makes this point I think to shame her for not paying attention to Taichi's work doing the things he doesn't want to do before he does the things he does want to do. Komano-sensei's point is not that Chihaya is being a bad friend, but that she is being an irresponsible student. He brings forward Taichi's example so that Chihaya will face her responsibilities, and not run away from them, as she did when she booked out of the tutoring session. Like Taichi, Chihaya needs to man up, samurai up, as well.

Kazu-kun, I am looking forward to your response. Could you do me a favor and discuss some of the particular details of the episode? If we focus on the evidence we will both learn something from Suetsugu-sensei, rather than just assert our own interpretations. Thanks!
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Last edited by hyperborealis; 2013-01-25 at 09:45.
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Old 2013-01-25, 10:05   Link #303
Kirarakim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperborealis View Post
The point of the scene in the lobby is to show us that Taichi needs to man up, or really to samurai up, and not that Chihaya needs to girl up, and become the karuta Counselor Troy from Star Trek Next Gen. Suetsugu has no interest in the modern therapeutic ethos you expect of Chihaya. Chihaya may be being Chihaya in the scene. But to make that the central point is a mistake.
Actually I think you are making the mistake and completely missing Kazu's point. Where does Kazu say that being there for a friend is having to "girl up" I am sorry but that is absolutely ridiculous.

Being there for a friend is not girly or feminine. Chihaya went to support Taichi and then as soon as she saw Arata was there she completely forgot about him as though he wasn't important at all. It doesn't matter if he lost or won, that's not being a good friend.

And the fact that you say Taichi has to man up but Chihaya doesn't have to girl up is again ridiculous, why are you bringing "gender" into this at all. No one else has.

The point of Taichi's development is to not give up even after he loses. Everyone is upset when they lose this is not just Taichi. He isn't being any less of man because he is is disappointed after a loss.

The bottom line is this isn't who is the better character Taichi or Chihaya, both Taichi and Chihaya have flaws they need to overcome. The story is not telling us that Taichi or Chihaya (or any other character) are ultimately more wrong than the other.
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Old 2013-01-25, 10:54   Link #304
Blaat
AS member for 10 years
 
 
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Wasn't Nishida comforting Taichi after their B-class final? I could have misremembered that moment though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
How about Kana-chan and Desk-kun?
Tsutomu was pretty rude during the early regional high school tournament arc, I can't think of a moment where Kana-chan was rude though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamZZ View Post
Is the topic changing from "evil Taichi" to "evil Chihaya"?
It's funny how the entire situation is reversed, users who like to go on about 'evil Taichi' are now on the defence although one of them has managed the deflect the entire issue and is blaming every thing on Taichi.
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Old 2013-01-25, 11:06   Link #305
SeijiSensei
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Let me just say that I find these walls of text about events long past tiresome and unhelpful. Perhaps the few of you who want to fight about which characters deserve more hatred for things they did last season should continue on in PMs. As far as I can see, none of you is going be swayed by the others' arguments. How about calling a truce and concentrating more on the current events starting with today's episode three?
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Old 2013-01-25, 12:27   Link #306
Kirarakim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaat View Post
Wasn't Nishida comforting Taichi after their B-class final? I could have misremembered that moment though.
Yes he absolutely did (although it was during a different tournament, the one when Nishida beat Taichi).

And in that case Taichi actually was in the wrong because at first he blamed losing to Nishida on luck (which was true but only on the last card). If Taichi had played better he could have beat Nishida earlier before it came down to luck. In this case they both played pretty equally and Nishida won fair & square. After all Nishida is a very strong player too.

Taichi corrected himself but he was in the wrong in that case. So I am certainly not saying Taichi is perfect who never makes mistakes either. But I just think some users try to make it out like Taichi is the representation of everything the manga-ka wants to say is wrong in the story.

And no it shouldn't be Taichi VS Chihaya either. If Chihaya & Taichi may seem more flawed then other characters I think it is only because the manga-ka spends more time on them. They are the protagonist and deuteragonist after all.
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Old 2013-01-25, 13:37   Link #307
Arya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Let me just say that I find these walls of text about events long past tiresome and unhelpful. Perhaps the few of you who want to fight about which characters deserve more hatred for things they did last season should continue on in PMs. As far as I can see, none of you is going be swayed by the others' arguments. How about calling a truce and concentrating more on the current events starting with today's episode three?
I thought that was relevant underlining Chiahaya's previous behavior to better get that she is changing now. And to say that each character in some ways has his own flaws. That's one of the strong points of this show. But I get your tiresomeness

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperborealis View Post
A couple points. Taichi is already alone when Chihaya comes into the lobby. His solitude marks his depression, not simply at losing, but at the private meaning the loss signifies: the dashing of his plans to make Class A and to compete in the same space as Chihaya. Compounding his depression may be the new prospect of Arata as a romantic rival. Later he will berate himself for not having stayed on the floor to watch and learn from the other players. So we know from his own mouth that his solitude is a mistake, a personal failure. When we recall his words to Harada-sensei, that he wants to become someone who doesn't run away, we recognize that in the lobby, he has precisely run away into himself.
My point is that it doesn't matter who Chihaya was supposed to comfort nor how she should have comfort who. You are focusing on Taichi path that in this case (of discussion) is not relevant. The show luckily is so good that it develops different threads in the same episode. We are talking about Chihaya and her own path. So the fact that Taichi was actually the object of her first concern it doesn't matter. It doesn't say anything about her. And it doesn't because the episode didn't showed in any way Chihaya understanding Taichi situation (as you has described, his situation). That means she didn't make a choice at that very moment (for instance that Taichi needed to man-up so it was right to leave him alone). The episode made clear that for her Taichi stopped to be there the moment she heard of Arata. She could have done a thousand of other things (drag him along, sitting silent by his side) but she ignored him.
And as I said she did something similar in another episode, because that's how she was when Karuta takes over her. Nothing really wrong here, simply as Kirarakim said
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim
The bottom line is this isn't who is the better character Taichi or Chihaya, both Taichi and Chihaya have flaws they need to overcome. The story is not telling us that Taichi or Chihaya (or any other character) are ultimately more wrong than the other.
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Old 2013-01-25, 15:41   Link #308
hyperborealis
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Ok. Good argument. I agree.
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Old 2013-01-25, 16:51   Link #309
Blaat
AS member for 10 years
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
No posts on episode three? Somewhat understandable I suppose so much has happened and I have no idea what I want to comment on. I really wish they would slow down a bit though, it feels really fast but I'm not sure if it's the manga at fault here or Madhouse.
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Old 2013-01-25, 16:57   Link #310
kitten320
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Age: 24
I do have to agree that season 2 does seem to be moving a bit fast. Wonder where they'll slow down.

And hey, for everyone who missed him, Arata is back
And looks like out Queen knows him well.
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Old 2013-01-25, 17:26   Link #311
ars89
One-Eyed Dragon
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NJ, USA
Age: 25
Finally we get Arata, too bad he lost, but liked how he was looking forward to the high school championships. Like how Komano gave Tsukuda and Sumire a shot to play during the tournament. Of course Chihaya would be jealous that Tsukuda got to play an a rank player. Though nice job of recruiting his brothers to her society. Nice to see Shinobu trimmed down again. Oh and Shinobu x Arata, maybe he inspired her to play like he did with Chihaya.
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Old 2013-01-25, 17:39   Link #312
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 27
That was a wonderful episode. It had funny, touching, as well as uplifting moments. This is exactly the kind of episode that made me fall in love with this series. Arata and Shinobu even made an appearance! It doesn't get any more perfect than that.

I didn't expect the team tournament to start so quickly. I thought a bit more time would be spend on the new members' introduction. In fact, that's kind of what this episode did, since it focused on Tsukuba. It turns out he's no sadist at all, he's a very decent albeit cocky guy who just happens to have a very scary expression when he opens his eyes. His relationship with his brothers is very endearing. It's a shame he didn't get to show off in front of his brothers (he was pretty unlucky to land on a A-class opponent) but I'm sure his time will come. He has the making of a strong player.

The other character that shone was Tsutomu. He proved once again he is the master strategist of the team. I really enjoyed how he included the two new members. It's important to give them a chance and make them feel they're part of the team, as the others have done for Tsutomu himself in the past. Thanks to him, even Sumire is starting to get into it.

After this episode, I feel like the new members fit right in. I'm eager to see them interact more with the others.

Funniest moments of the episode:

- Kana counting Chihaya as a guy (that killed me because... it's so true )
- Chihaya being envious of Tsukuba for playing against a strong opponent
- Chihaya recruiting the brothers
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Old 2013-01-25, 17:53   Link #313
Quadratic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
How about Kana-chan and Desk-kun?
Her condition to join the club is they have to buy/rent the kimono. $$$

Anyway, regarding ep 3, it's nice to see Arata taking his loss so humbly.
And Shinobu playing with the phone cord was strangely...sensual.
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Old 2013-01-25, 17:57   Link #314
Blaat
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I have to give full credit to Kana-chan, if my mother behaved like that during high school I would have died of embarrassment.
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Old 2013-01-25, 18:41   Link #315
Arya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
That was a wonderful episode. It had funny, touching, as well as uplifting moments. This is exactly the kind of episode that made me fall in love with this series. Arata and Shinobu even made an appearance! It doesn't get any more perfect than that.

I didn't expect the team tournament to start so quickly. I thought a bit more time would be spend on the new members' introduction. In fact, that's kind of what this episode did, since it focused on Tsukuba. It turns out he's no sadist at all, he's a very decent albeit cocky guy who just happens to have a very scary expression when he opens his eyes. His relationship with his brothers is very endearing. It's a shame he didn't get to show off in front of his brothers (he was pretty unlucky to land on a A-class opponent) but I'm sure his time will come. He has the making of a strong player.

The other character that shone was Tsutomu. He proved once again he is the master strategist of the team. I really enjoyed how he included the two new members. It's important to give them a chance and make them feel they're part of the team, as the others have done for Tsutomu himself in the past. Thanks to him, even Sumire is starting to get into it.

After this episode, I feel like the new members fit right in. I'm eager to see them interact more with the others.

Funniest moments of the episode:

- Kana counting Chihaya as a guy (that killed me because... it's so true )
- Chihaya being envious of Tsukuba for playing against a strong opponent
- Chihaya recruiting the brothers
This. I don't need to add more. Or, just Sumire and her poor neglected brain cells among the funniest moments.
But all the episode has been really cheerful, a pleasure to watch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaat View Post
I have to give full credit to Kana-chan, if my mother behaved like that during high school I would have died of embarrassment.
Me too
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Old 2013-01-25, 19:10   Link #316
hyperborealis
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Oh, and don't forget Nishida thinking Retro-kun is weird. That was funny, coz, as Kanon puts it, he is

Loved the interaction between second years and first years, especially with Tsukuba-kun appreciating how cool his senpai are. The leadership on the team seems really organic: everyone contributes.

Sumire being outraged by that horrid cherub (!) touching her fingers was fascinating. Chihaya may be a guy in all but name, but Sumire sees her mastery as the epitome of feminine discretion. No guy touches her hands, by golly.

Nice to see Chihaya well on her way to Shinobu-levels of making opponents weep.
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Old 2013-01-25, 20:23   Link #317
Yume Hanabi
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I'm feeling the fast pace too. Hope they'll slow down at some point, I loved the pace of the first season.

Loved the bit with Kana and Sumire; Kana has finally found a friend who shares similar interests that are not karuta xD;

And Tsukuba realizing that Tsutomu - an unattractive guy - was cool too was a good moment too. Only 3 eps into the season, and they're already growing!
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Old 2013-01-25, 21:15   Link #318
kitten320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya View Post
Or, just Sumire and her poor neglected brain cells among the funniest moments.
I loled hard when she said that
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Old 2013-01-25, 21:55   Link #319
SeijiSensei
AS Oji-kun
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mucking about
Age: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
I loled hard when she said that
That was the second funniest line in the episode for me. The first was Kana-chan's happiness that there are now two girls on the team! Sometimes I wish they wouldn't bother with the textual comments in scenes like that. I suppose for someone who hadn't seen season one it might not have made much sense, but it did feel like they were hammering the point home.

I also didn't expect we'd end up at the tournament quite so quickly, but perhaps the writers realized that we'd already seen a lot of development and training of novices in the first season. It made more sense when all five of the originals were learning.

So now Chihaya has to compete against Shinobu for both Arata's affections as well as becoming Queen? I wonder what he thinks of Shinobu. I thought it interesting that in his decision to play in the high-school championship he thinks about both Chihaya and Taichi. Will we get Shinobu x Arata to free up Chihaya x Taichi?

Sumire admiring herself in her compact mirror while the rest of the team stood ready for the match was a cute touch. Tsutomu's diagnosis of the effects of boy/girl matches on the opposing teams looked spot on, too. Too bad he lost his match.

Tsukuba-kun needs to keep that tongue under control. It's getting a bit old, and it's only episode three! He reminds me of a couple of professional golfers like Tiger Woods and Lee Westwood who both have that same tic.
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Old 2013-01-25, 22:32   Link #320
eduard3
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I really love how the teacher (their club moderator) grew to like the club xD. Seeing development in characters really pays off after.
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