AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Gundam

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-01-25, 23:34   Link #5681
amaterasu4
CAUSE I FEEEEEEEEEEEEEL!!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Shame Car
Quote:
The meeting with Kira and Athrun was reasonably well done but Athrun never really addressed the problem of the attempted assassination of Lacus Clyne. He just said that it being the Chairman is jumping to conclusions. Whilst that may be true, Kira and Lacus have to consider all options so they're perfectly right not to trust the Chairman just yet. Their lives are on the line after all. Athrun should've promised that the assassination would be investigated.

Episode 28

I don't like the way they've made Kira so much stronger than Athrun (I thought they were equals?) but that was still a very good episode. Brutality and tragedy all round.
Something I noted some time ago is that the Archangel was actually the weakest ship during Destiny. They barely have mobile suits and no back ups so they are only able to try talking with others and escaping when failing in their task. This weakness is why they are weaker. In the Special Edition films, Durandal predicts Kira's involvement in the war shortly after the appearance of the Coordinators that tried killing Lacus and has plans for Shinn facing him.

Kira's characterization in comparison with Athrun may possibly be due to all he went through in SEED and managed to find a solution to his pain in the last seconds of his fight against Rau whereas Athrun almost killed himself in the finale since he was fighting for personal reasons and ended with questions that Durandal appears to be able to answer. Kira still has some scenes where he is shown weaked but they are short lived. When people compare Athrun with Quattro, I note that Athrun is not piloting a golden mobile suit like Quattro's Hyaku Shiki but a red one like Aegis and Justice and so he acts more like a rival still having problems and not a mentor.
amaterasu4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 00:26   Link #5682
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
Yeah, but I don't see how you can come up with that message to the world stuff or not wanting to be humiliated.
I didn’t come up with that out of nothing. Uzumi hiself said in those ORB episodes that he wants the world to see that ORB will not easily oppressed by other nation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
Individual interpretation must still have basis on the work itself. The anime presented a peaceful country and you're talking about people having problems and then crying foul when you don't get that. That's not a valid interpretation of the show.
I’m not crying foul asking for them to show the conflict among the people in ORB. I was wondering why the show never adressed it directly/head-on about what people of ORB thought about that Deal Orb is making. The “happy crowd” during the wedding prove nothing about people’s opinion about the deal. Once again, I’m not asking for a confirmed riot/conflict within ORB. I’m asking why the show didn't address people’s opinion whether it’s positive or negative. I thought what I said about this matter was pretty simple to understand. (see the bolded parts, you're the one that keep badmouthing my opinion)

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
Yeah, but again, a country's ideal should be bigger than any one person. For Uzumi to do what he did shows a disregard toward that ideal.
*sigh* again? IMO since ORB is already lost, Uzumi consider Cagalli to be the last shred of the embodiment of ORB’s ideal which has greater meaning than a mere daughter. She is his last hope, so he saved her. At least he thought of it like that. His heart is still for his country at that point. Like it or not, he already did the best he could according to him. And I just happen to agree with what he did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
Not at that point.
I think it's already losing heavily at that point. Uzumi saw it too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
They did not evacuate the country. They evacuated the places near military bases.
I didn't say they evacuated the country. The fact is, some civilians are already evacuating. And the AF didn't target civillian-populated areas IIRC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
Exactly. If this ideal was so important, then they should've continued the fight and not reduce their military strength.
When losing is already clear and there's a better things to save which also represent ORB's ideal, Uzumi simply take the better alternative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
We don't know that. Freedom alone was capable of keeping up with Destiny era mobile suits. It certainly could help against mere Strike Daggers.
Let’s see Freedom and Justice already facing difficulties fighting the trio Gundams. While they keep those two busy, the AF still have lots of battleships, carriers, fighter planes and a horde of Daggers. ORB already lost many of its battleships and Astrays. It’s gonna be too tough for ahandful of Astrays and Strike and Buster to face them all (this isn’t space where MSs can move freely destroying battleships). So no, I don’t think they had a chance and Uzumi knew it too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
Oh, I don't get personal on these types of discussions (or at least, I try not to). I was talking about Orb in Destiny of course.
So? I have a problem with how they depict some ORB people and that's that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
Well, unfortunately, Orb cannot make a decision based only on what Cagalli thinks she knows without any proof.
Another twisting of my words? Not what she thinks she knows, she knows about the simple fact that Minerva was fighting those who drop Junius 7.
__________________
Obelisk ze Tormentor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 00:44   Link #5683
monster
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
I was wondering why the show never adressed it directly/head-on about what people of ORB thought about that Deal Orb is making.[/B]
The answer is simple: Because it's not relevant to the story.

Orb chose to join the Alliance this time, and that's all there is to it. Don't try to make this something more complicated than it really is.

Like I said before, this is more like a change in foreign policy rather than something as grand as ending democracy in the USA. You just have to get over that misguided idea because the show certainly doesn't treat it as such.
monster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 00:59   Link #5684
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
The answer is simple: Because it's not relevant to the story.

Orb chose to join the Alliance this time, and that's all there is to it. Don't try to make this something more complicated than it really is.

Like I said before, this is more like a change in foreign policy rather than something as grand as ending democracy in the USA. You just have to get over that misguided idea because the show certainly doesn't treat it as such.
Like I said, you have your opinion, I have mine. For me, ORB’s ideals (neutrality) originated from SEED is fundamental just like democracy (mind you that my country also has democracy, so I know what it is). The long peaceful stable life enjoyed by Kira and his friends while other countries already waging wars is a testament to that (then comes episode 1 of SEED with the reveal of a backdoor dealing that ruined the peace). Then Destiny make a situation where those ideals no longer regarded by the majority of ORB’s people only to give us more conflict within Cagalli’s leadership. That’s what I don’t like about Destiny among other things. I may sound like this, but I also acknowledged your opinion until you keep badmouthing mine.
__________________
Obelisk ze Tormentor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 01:21   Link #5685
monster
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Like I said, you have your opinion, I have mine.
It's not my opinion. It's what the show presented to us.
Quote:
The long peaceful stable life enjoyed by Kira and his friends while other countries already waging wars is a testament to that.
There are many factors that contribute to that. But, in general, any country that is at peace will provide a peaceful life for its citizens. In case you've forgotten, Orb isn't the only neutral country in the Cosmic Era universe.
Quote:
Then Destiny make a situation where those ideals no longer regarded by the majority of ORB’s people only to give us more conflict within Cagalli’s leadership. That’s what I don’t like about Destiny among other things. I may sound like this, but I also acknowledged your opinion until you keep badmouthing mine.
Actually, I have never had any problem with what you like/dislike. If that's how I came across to you, then I apologize.

Where I disagree with you has always been how you place Orb's ideals as something more than what it really is. I don't deny that these ideals are important to Orb, but things can and do change. Orb's ideals have simply never been presented in both SEED and Destiny as something that would utterly change the nation so drastically if it were changed/abandoned.
monster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 01:51   Link #5686
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
It's not my opinion. It's what the show presented to us.
And what I take from the show is that it presented to us through Uzumiís speeches and conversations that those ideals of neutrality has been the soul of ORB and it helps maintaining the peace and stability all those years. Itís just, for every ideals, there are some rough time where other group of people will challenge you because of it. Of course, how much those ideals means for each person in ORB may vary, but doesnít change the fact that it helps shape the country of ORB which makes it fundamental to me. Then, ORB people in Destiny simply discarded it like some trash policy *sigh*. Well, thatís what I get from the show, while you simply get different thing.
__________________
Obelisk ze Tormentor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 02:00   Link #5687
The American Average
2LMES
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: a comet that goes zooom!!!
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...ated-for-march
and there was much rejoicing
__________________
The American Average is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 02:09   Link #5688
monster
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
it helps maintaining the peace and stability all those years.
Except when it doesn't, like in SEED.

The problem with Orb's ideals is that it only takes an enemy like the AF to shatter that peace and stability. Orb experienced first hand in SEED how their ideals meant nothing to the AF.

So in Destiny, the Seirans sought for a better outcome. They joined the alliance and, yes, they had the obligation to share their military troops. But, in exchange, the country did maintain its stability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANN
The Mobile Suit Gundam Seed Destiny HD Remaster project will begin streaming on the Bandai Channel service on March 29 at 11:00 p.m. in Japan. The series will then start running on the BS11 satellite channel on April 7 and on the Tokyo MX TV channel on April 9.
That would be exactly 34 years after MSG's first episode aired. I guess that's their excuse for not waiting until 2014. But I guess they couldn't wait.
monster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 02:17   Link #5689
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
Some stability. It brought the war right to their doorstep AGAIN, which they were hoping to avoid.
__________________
Rising Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 02:19   Link #5690
monster
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Some stability. It brought the war right to their doorstep AGAIN, which they were hoping to avoid.
With the world being as it is, they couldn't avoid the war.

I guess Orb's ideals is simply not maintainable during a world war scenario. One way or another, Orb will get roped in.
monster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 02:51   Link #5691
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
Except when it doesn't, like in SEED.

The problem with Orb's ideals is that it only takes an enemy like the AF to shatter that peace and stability. Orb experienced first hand in SEED how their ideals meant nothing to the AF.
Well, that's why I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
It’s just, for every ideals, there are some rough time where other group of people will challenge you because of it.
Which doesn't mean that the ideals are bad. Sometimes, there are some jerks (like Federation) who just want to give you nothing but trouble. You just have to stand your ground and fight against those kind of people. Granting their selfish request will only strengthen their arrogance and power which basically a very bad thing for those who upholds human rights and sovereignty of the nations (Plus, in case of SEED, you're helping a genocide).
__________________
Obelisk ze Tormentor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 03:04   Link #5692
monster
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Which doesn't mean that the ideals are bad.
Oh, I agree.
Quote:
Sometimes, there are some jerks (like Federation) who just want to give you nothing but trouble. You just have to stand your ground and fight against those kind of people. Granting their selfish request will only strengthen their arrogance and power which basically a very bad thing for those who upholds human rights and sovereignty of the nations (Plus, in case of SEED, you're helping a genocide).
Sure, but when all options seem to be bad, the people can only look to their leaders to help them get through this situation.

Unfortunately for Cagalli, most of the current Orb leaders in her time chose to side with the Alliance.
monster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 03:45   Link #5693
The American Average
2LMES
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: a comet that goes zooom!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Znozzy View Post
Cagalli had more than enough life lessons in SEED, Arguments between her VA and Fuku/Moro sealed her deal in Destiny.
i know this is going back a little in this conversation but where did you hear this i'd like to know because i've read that fuku/moro turned into real arse holes near the end of destiny but id like to read up on this so i can know why cagalli was ruined
__________________
The American Average is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 04:46   Link #5694
kaito-kid
As I make you stop, think
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Europe - The Netherlands
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by The American Average View Post
i know this is going back a little in this conversation but where did you hear this i'd like to know because i've read that fuku/moro turned into real arse holes near the end of destiny but id like to read up on this so i can know why cagalli was ruined
It's nonsense. Completely unfounded internet rummer started by a certain member of this forum whose name I will not mention. However, it is true (and quite obvious) that Destiny had some major and minor production issues, because the director failed to mobilize his staff effectively.

On a different note, does anyone have a list of the crew that worked on the Seed remaster? The new stock animations were quite nice.
__________________

Last edited by kaito-kid; 2013-01-26 at 04:57.
kaito-kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 05:07   Link #5695
Znozzy
Praise the sun!
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sweden
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by The American Average View Post
i know this is going back a little in this conversation but where did you hear this i'd like to know because i've read that fuku/moro turned into real arse holes near the end of destiny but id like to read up on this so i can know why cagalli was ruined
Spoiler for text:


TLR

they where really " demanding " of their VA's (Lacus, Cagallis, and so on) and that ended up with arguments between Naomi Shindo and Fuku/Moro, and it resulted in Cagalli's character being butchered and Naomi refusing to work with Morosawa.

Just google around and i'm sure you'll find more info
Znozzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 05:46   Link #5696
monster
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Znozzy View Post
Naomi has never voiced Cagalli. Sure, there's her being listed for the movie, but that's nearly five years ago and she hasn't voiced her since.
Well, the show is over, so that is not surprising.
monster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 06:35   Link #5697
bio9205
Reborn
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Age: 20
GSD remaster to start airing on March 29... That's much earlier than I expected.
bio9205 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 06:45   Link #5698
Znozzy
Praise the sun!
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sweden
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by bio9205 View Post
GSD remaster to start airing on March 29... That's much earlier than I expected.
Indeed! can't wait for the first 12 episodes they are great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
Well, the show is over, so that is not surprising.
Indeed, but she hasnt voiced cagalli in any games either

Last edited by Znozzy; 2013-01-26 at 08:03.
Znozzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 06:55   Link #5699
aeriolewinters
Gin-Sama no Tameni!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Balanga City, Bataan, Philippines
Send a message via Yahoo to aeriolewinters
now the betting starts: which of Destiny's females will get the Fllay treatment in the Destiny Remaster?
__________________
Mercury Lampe
aeriolewinters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-26, 06:56   Link #5700
D-KLAC
KLAC OF THE ANIME WORLD
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: gs series
Age: 25
well either way finally the day for HD version of GSD will come & soon movie of GS talks come back again.

or better yet will finally pull in give a 3rd GS series to finally SAVE_US cause after PG-age sorta ruined whole gundam watching.

indeed they need to go back to GS era roots to SAVE_US all.
__________________
ONCE A GS ALWAYS A GS
A KLAC IS JUST TOO COMMIT, HONOR, LOYALTY, PRIDE, ETC TO WORLD OF ANIME
WALKING THE PATH OF KLAC ON THE JOURNEY THORUGH THE KLAC-ERA
YOU EITHER ANIME NEXUS http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=24159 OR AGAINST THE ANIME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6WFM...eature=related
KLAC OF PERSONALITY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqyG8w0iMPw
D-KLAC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mecha, seed it and weep

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 21:20.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.