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View Poll Results: Should there be Ero/H in visual novels?
Aye 75 65.79%
Nay 39 34.21%
Voters: 114. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-01-27, 09:28   Link #121
Kudryavka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
You mean most Shin Megaten games, Persona games, some wild arms games like x fire, almost every atelier serie game, the newer Phantasy Star games, Disgaea games, Valkyria chronicle games, certain final fantasy games like the tactic series and many many others?
Heck even non RPG's like corpse party and blazblue have that format.
The narrator don't narrate everything. They don't say "It's cold in here" or "It's a big room" or "I'm feeling hungry" all the time unless it's necessary to find something or whatever. Unless it's in VN-like parts, as is the case with Disgaea, in which case, why are you pointing that out?

tbh why did you point all this rpg stuff out in the first place?? Please look at the whole forest in what I said to RK, not just the trees.


Quote:
I never denied that the gyakuten Saiban games aren't VN's (i even said that it was primarily a VN), i was more doubting on your statement that the layton games were VN's.
Dude, if I say something that agrees to what you said, it means I'm not questioning you, I'm agreeing with you. The questioning is more aimed at Redkey, for whom I'm still waiting a reply. Let's just wait for RK and not fight over what a VN or RPG is.
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Old 2013-01-27, 09:48   Link #122
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
The narrator don't narrate everything. They don't say "It's cold in here" or "It's a big room" or "I'm feeling hungry" all the time unless it's necessary to find something or whatever. Unless it's in VN-like parts, as is the case with Disgaea, in which case, why are you pointing that out?

tbh why did you point all this rpg stuff out in the first place?? Please look at the whole forest in what I said to RK, not just the trees.
I seriously have to laught at your face for not even bothering to look at my examples
P4
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff0IB-t8bTA&t=1m4s
"It is still raining"
"Something may appear on tv"

Blazblue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvRib9giCNg
Almost half of this story is narrated

Corpse party
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL4M6bnrR-A&t=2h4m44s
Everything after"the stall door is locked from the inside"

You can decide if the rest of my examples don't have VN elements, seeing that i don't feel like it to do all the work of finding more examples

edit: you are also overestimating on the narration seeing that if a certain event actually needs to be narrated, it is usually complemented by a CG or the character sprites

Last edited by hyl; 2013-01-27 at 10:26.
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Old 2013-01-27, 09:58   Link #123
RedKey
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
They follow the basic visual novel format... character sprites on a background image with text scrolling at the bottom or on screen, and music.

How is that not a visual novel??
I'm not talking about 'moe graphics or focus on love', there's a significant difference in gameplay between a standard, run-of-the-mill visual novel and a game like Ace Attorney. Let's take, say, Little Busters. It has its baseball and fighting minigames (which aren't even relevant for the outcome of the plot anyway) and story/route related choices, sure, but you don't have to actively go to places, speak to people, piece your clues together, press a witness, reason and present evidence. This, I believe, is why Ace Attorney worked well in the West. You don't feel like you're reading a book with visuals and sound. You feel like you're actually playing a game. I know someone that ended up being disappointed in Corpse Party Book of Shadows because it 'felt like reading a visual novel' compared to the first episode, Blood Covered.

If you say that you feel like playing a game, with actual gameplay, while reading something like Saya no Uta too it becomes a mere matter of different point of view, that's fine, I won't be able to argue anymore. At any rate, this is mine.
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Old 2013-01-27, 14:00   Link #124
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by RedKey View Post
I'm not talking about 'moe graphics or focus on love', there's a significant difference in gameplay between a standard, run-of-the-mill visual novel and a game like Ace Attorney. Let's take, say, Little Busters. It has its baseball and fighting minigames (which aren't even relevant for the outcome of the plot anyway) and story/route related choices, sure, but you don't have to actively go to places, speak to people, piece your clues together, press a witness, reason and present evidence. This, I believe, is why Ace Attorney worked well in the West. You don't feel like you're reading a book with visuals and sound. You feel like you're actually playing a game. I know someone that ended up being disappointed in Corpse Party Book of Shadows because it 'felt like reading a visual novel' compared to the first episode, Blood Covered.

If you say that you feel like playing a game, with actual gameplay, while reading something like Saya no Uta too it becomes a mere matter of different point of view, that's fine, I won't be able to argue anymore. At any rate, this is mine.
Then what do you call Ace Attorney...?
Don't answer that if you don't want, whatev.

Anyway I still think most VNs are just meant for a niche crowd.
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Old 2013-01-27, 14:54   Link #125
Vexx
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Some people call such games "JRPGs" or "SRPGs" like Utawarerumono. It has an action component and a "VN" component.
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Old 2013-01-27, 15:19   Link #126
hyl
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Some people call such games "JRPGs" or "SRPGs" like Utawarerumono. It has an action component and a "VN" component.
The japanese usually call those games AVG+SRPG for having both elements in the game. There are plenty of VN's that also have a gameplay element in it, like this month's Gears of Dragoon or the English translated Kamidori Alchemy Meister
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Old 2013-01-27, 17:57   Link #127
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
Then what do you call Ace Attorney...?
AVG

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Old 2013-01-27, 18:30   Link #128
Benoit
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Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
I suppose straight up porn vs something with a story could be comparable to having sex with someone you've just met vs someone you've come to care about. The point being that giving a shit about something makes it a better emotional investment.
This is a dangerous thing to say as there is an increasing number of people who wasn't raised this way and think it is perfectly acceptable to have sex first and talk later. They argue that sex is also a way to get to know each other.

I was raised more conservatively, so I don't like to admit it, but... That's also a valid way of doing things.
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Old 2013-01-27, 18:49   Link #129
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Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
They argue that sex is also a way to get to know each other.
This is how STD is spread.... When they found it, its already too late...
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Old 2013-01-27, 21:43   Link #130
Alchemist007
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Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
This is a dangerous thing to say as there is an increasing number of people who wasn't raised this way and think it is perfectly acceptable to have sex first and talk later. They argue that sex is also a way to get to know each other.

I was raised more conservatively, so I don't like to admit it, but... That's also a valid way of doing things.
I'm conservative in few things but this also happens to be one of them. I leave the sexual promiscuity for virtual characters and take things more monogamously in reality.
American culture (and other cultures too I'm sure) happens to be very liberal in attitude towards sex. Though not as much as you'd like to think in the govnerment
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Old 2013-01-27, 22:17   Link #131
Hiroi Sekai
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Depends on context for me, much like everything else I partake in. Don't shove it in because you have to, but if a romance blossoms to the point of sexual interaction, then by all means.

Now that's under the assumption that we're talking about a standard visual novel with elements of ecchi/hentai in it. If it's strictly a game where you're to sex up the entire cast, then it definitely can exist because it sells. You just won't see me playing them, that's all.

G-Senjou no Maou VS. Marunomi (can't believe I actually did a search to find an example), Q.E.D..

Maybe a less creepy example would be the difference between Little Busters! VS. Little Busters! Ecstasy Version.
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Old 2013-02-04, 06:14   Link #132
Mazryonh
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Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post
Depends on context for me, much like everything else I partake in. Don't shove it in because you have to, but if a romance blossoms to the point of sexual interaction, then by all means.
Sometimes it's the other way--the story works because it has sexual elements. Take a look at the White Album anime--Yayoi's plotline (lifted from the original game) wouldn't be quite as poignant if she wasn't sleeping with Touya to draw him away from his girlfriend Yuki, because sexual betrayal is in a class of its own for many people when it comes to "things you can do to hurt an intimate relationship." Another title by Leaf that would suffer if the sexual elements were removed from the storyline is Tenshi no inai 12-gatsu because the characters' backstories all involve how such elements have hurt them in their past or present relationships. I think that the White Album PS3 game (which removed or censored the original's sexual elements) loses some of the impact that way.

Of course, oftentimes the leadup to such elements in the eroge genre isn't very believable. If you look at Caucasus, one of Innocent Grey's releases, for instance, you'll discover that the player character can "win" the various heroines in the story within the ingame time of three days, only one of whom the player character is well-acquainted with. I'll admit that the Titanic movie was famous because it portrayed such a tempestuous love affair within such a short timeframe, but you can't do that so many times in the course of a single work of fiction without straining suspension of disbelief.

There's a lot of potential for good writers to make their mark in this genre--too bad it's not considered a "real" genre of fiction by many.
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Old 2013-02-06, 04:46   Link #133
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Just played Da Capo... so its Eroge or VN with sex scenes?
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Old 2013-02-06, 04:57   Link #134
hyl
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Just played Da Capo... so its Eroge or VN with sex scenes?
Depends on which version. The all ages version is just a regular VN or how some people call it a "AVG" and the 18+ version is an eroge, which essentially means a VN with sex scenes.
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Old 2013-02-06, 05:26   Link #135
NoemiChan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Depends on which version. The all ages version is just a regular VN or how some people call it a "AVG" and the 18+ version is an eroge, which essentially means a VN with sex scenes.
So removing the sex affects the progress.. they talk during the sex scenes after all....
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