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Old 2013-01-27, 15:07   Link #381
Last Sinner
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Shoujo cliches I'm getting tired of:

- The pretty, popular girl who knew the male lead younger in life ends up going mega-bitch or near-homicidal
- Relationship reset...
- The support guy is usually more interesting/likeable than the lead guy


Shounen cliches:

- Almost anything that happens in shounen...seriously...


Other cliches:

- The lead female (and maybe a few supporting females) is more likely to have more balls, brains and decency than the guy
- Rape is a mere entertainment tool (it was certainly treated as such in too many October 2012 titles)
- Mega-compressions of long manga or LNs into a single season...
- The increasing support for loli yuri but condemnation of mature yuri
- The decreasing variation in types of males
- Homogenisation of art styles
- Increasingly slower pacing
- Shows are either light as a feather or ultra grim dark
- The assumption you're familiar with all available LN material when an adaptation occurs
- Decreasing proportion of original movies or adaptations of older novels and increasing proportion of movies doing summations or side stories of series already done
- Incest subtext
- Teen protagonists
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Last edited by Last Sinner; 2013-01-27 at 15:39.
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Old 2013-01-27, 17:13   Link #382
Kudryavka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
- Rape is a mere entertainment tool (it was certainly treated as such in too many October 2012 titles)
Please tell me some titles so that I can go laugh at and poo on them.
Quote:
- Teen protagonists
lol... I get you, I get you...
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Old 2013-01-27, 18:38   Link #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
It's not out-right stated that Homura or Nanoha are. It's really all subtext. So if you don't like that stuff, it's perfectly safe for you to watch. Some fans just read into the girls' friendship a bit more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
I'm still scared though.. really? Is it just the fans that ships the girls?
However it's more likely for a mother to complain if two same-sex people are kissing in front of her kid than a hetero one. (We are a Christian store).
Jail them. I'll be pissed off as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
Nooo... don't play into the stereotype...

Being masculine has nothing to do with being lesbian. I've met plenty of girly lesbians.
They are like cakes, they have different taste. Lesbians in our place are masculine and well hit you if you suggest to have them wear make up or a skirt...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
imho Homura just loved Madoka as a dear friend.

But diff fans will see it differently.
True. Really True...

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
....and my sister very casually and confidently went "Yeah, they're gay". .
I want to meet your sister.... and discuss things we dislike over a cup of coffee...
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Old 2013-01-27, 20:37   Link #384
Chiibi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Also, and this is a true story, I showed one of my two sisters (who has little familiarity with anime, and is pretty liberally-minded) the Season 1 scene of Nanoha and Fate hugging each other and crying over their reunion, and my sister very casually and confidently went "Yeah, they're gay".
Oh, that's ridiculous. Sisters and best friends can do that too without being gay. Girls are emotional creatures who do cry over their friends. If you read shoujo manga where the heroine gets put in peril and gets separated from her friends, this happens A LOT.

If two MALE characters acted this way on the other hand....


Quote:
With Homura, I just find her incredible level of dedication to Madoka to be hard to swallow unless Homura is madly in love with Madoka. But maybe that's just me.
Eh....I feel the same way. I think Homura *loves* Madoka.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner
- The support guy is usually more interesting/likeable than the lead guy
........forgive me, I'm about to laugh because I find that statement absurd:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The reason this guy never wins the girl is because the majority of the fans don't want him to because he's so dull and UNlikable.
There are a few cases that are exceptions but they are rare. Unless you're talking about Princess Tutu...because I'd say Fakir was just as much as a lead as Mytho. So Ayashi No Ceres is the only series that pops into my mind with what you're saying.
And for Vampire Knight, I can't figure out which guy is which role. I do prefer Zero though.
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Old 2013-01-27, 21:16   Link #385
judasmartel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
- Teen protagonists
Since the point of most anime is selling themselves to teenage viewers...

And hey, who wants to watch an anime with a 60-year-old (physically) protagonist?

Although, there are exceptions, such as Fate/Zero.
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Old 2013-01-27, 21:25   Link #386
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
And hey, who wants to watch an anime with a 60-year-old (physically) protagonist?
That's too old. Around college age is good...
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Old 2013-01-27, 21:31   Link #387
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Haha, I know, I know. I'm just exaggerating things.

Okay, so is college life really so complicated that most authors don't write stories involving college students? I think so. College was as difficult as hell for me.
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Old 2013-01-27, 21:41   Link #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiibi View Post
........forgive me, I'm about to laugh because I find that statement absurd
So because you don't agree with someone, you think they're stupid? You could just leave it at you disagree instead of acting like a little kid, but whatever.

For the record, I never said anything about the side character going for the girl, did I? I said more interesting or likeable. In terms of who they are as a character. Don't go twisting my words into what you want them to be.

Fine, you want some examples? These are ones I personally think to be the case I mentioned before.

Kare Kano (His and Her Circumstances) - Soichiro was nowhere near my fave male char from Kare Kano. Kazuma was. Any day of the week and twice whenever he was jamming. That guy was cool, a true friend and made for great times. Why do you think Tsuda gave Kazuma and Tsubasa two whole volumes...his popularity was 2nd overall and considering he was about 5th or so in terms of how much he appeared up until near then, that shows how likeable and awesome he was. Who said a side character going after the lead had to be part of the plan? Kazuma x Tsubasa was glorious. Soichiro was decent early on but in the final third of the saga, he really lowered his colours and is lucky as hell Yukino forgave him.

Kimi ni Todoke - Kazehaya may be a nice guy but I never found him that appealing. Ryu was easily my fave male character in KnT. Cool and unflappable as anything, cutting through any overly sugary scenario with his cool demeanor then setting Chizuru's blood aflame with his smirk and patient advice. Ryu was far more interesting and appealing than Kazehaya. Heck, even Pin was more interesting than Kazehaya.

Lovely Complex - Otani was amusing but damn, he was a jerk and an airhead. Nobu and Maity may have had nowhere near as much exposure, but Nobu being able to poke humour and cut a tense atmosphere with ease or Maity being so FABulous and setting Otani straight was better than Otani being a clown for as long as he was.

NANA - Okay, NANA is josei, but since it was circulating in Shoujo Beat for ages, it counts in my book. Ren was a decent character but he wasn't my fave and it definitely wasn't Takumi. Yasu was definitely 'the man' for me in that title. Ever-reliable, walking the walk in a very adult and pragmatic world, dignity intact, looked cool. He was the pick of the bunch for me.

Nodame Cantabile - Chiaki was amusing and a necessary counter for Nodame in the romantic sense. But Stressman and co. made for more entertaining times for me.

Sukitte Iinayo - Yamato does have the fab factor going for him but in terms of overall appeal, Kai was a more interesting character for me. More personality, more vibrance and less stupid behaviour.


And there's more examples, but that's enough for now.

Next time, read what someone is saying before you interpret it as what you wish it to be.
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Old 2013-01-27, 21:46   Link #389
judasmartel
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Hmmm, the way I see it:

- If the main lead is boring but the side character isn't, people call BS on the main lead for being weak.
- If the main lead is cool but no side character isn't, people still call BS on the main lead for being overpowered or worse, overrated.
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Old 2013-01-27, 21:57   Link #390
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
That's too old. Around college age is good...
Yea I agree. My teen years were nowhere near as fun as college. Junior high was complete wack (like for everyone I've asked), and high school was just studying ungodly amounts to test high in classes I hated to go to good universities. And my high school was so far away from my house, I had to wake up at 5:30 every morning to go to school... Not fun for the most part. One of the few things I liked about those years is that I met one of my best buds for life there.

But in college, I got to be my own person, do what I wanted, and even go study abroad. Had fun the entire time, especially when my core reqs were done. University >>>> high school for me.
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
Haha, I know, I know. I'm just exaggerating things.

Okay, so is college life really so complicated that most authors don't write stories involving college students? I think so. College was as difficult as hell for me.
I just think it's the audience thing. As hard as college is, undergrad is not that much harder than high school imo, if you go to a school that actually prepares you for college right.

Ive heard people say it's because high school is more relatable, but I don't think that a whole lot of people who bother to go to high school in Japan will just not go to college. lol
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Old 2013-01-27, 21:59   Link #391
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Excuse me, is that in the US? I heard that high school in US sucks for unpopular people. I only heard about it, though, I can't say anything else.
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Old 2013-01-27, 22:04   Link #392
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
Excuse me, is that in the US? I heard that high school in US sucks for unpopular people. I only heard about it, though, I can't say anything else.
That is true to an extent, but my high school experience had nothing to do with being popular or not, I had friends and hung out with people who didnt care about how popular you were anyway. The only bad thing about my HS was waking up early and the endless studying, but I still appreciate them because they helped me succeed in life.
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Old 2013-01-27, 22:05   Link #393
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College is more appropriate because they're at the legal age. Though it happens in real life. watching or rather hearing that a high school couple goes to a hotel is pretty disturbing. It's like encouraging youths to engage in premarital sex.
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Old 2013-01-27, 22:08   Link #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
So because you don't agree with someone, you think they're stupid? You could just leave it at you disagree instead of acting like a little kid, but whatever.
.........what?
Calm down, all I said was the statement was absurd to me-not that you were stupid. There's certainly a difference and I am not "acting like a little kid".

Quote:
For the record, I never said anything about the side character going for the girl, did I? I said more interesting or likeable. In terms of who they are as a character. Don't go twisting my words into what you want them to be.
I wasn't twisting your words! I thought you meant the "third wheel" of a love triangle-not side characters who do not get involved.

As for your examples, I don't really have strong feelings towards any of the series enough to say much. KazumaxTsubasa is cute though.

For KnT, I've seen a bit and Kazehaya is definitely a girl's dream....but that's just the thing; at times he comes off as "too good to be true". I haven't finished the series though...

Quote:
Lovely Complex - Otani was amusing but damn, he was a jerk and an airhead. Nobu and Maity may have had nowhere near as much exposure, but Nobu being able to poke humour and cut a tense atmosphere with ease or Maity being so FABulous and setting Otani straight was better than Otani being a clown for as long as he was.
I can't remember anybody's names from this.....(again, unfinished) but I like the quiet one....who was all shy...he had darker skin, I think?

Quote:
I heard that high school in US sucks for unpopular people.
It certainly does. >_____> Glad those dark times are behind me. Japanese and art class were the only things I loved.
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Old 2013-01-27, 22:09   Link #395
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
College is more appropriate because they're at the legal age. Though it happens in real life. watching or rather hearing that a high school couple goes to a hotel is pretty disturbing. It's like encouraging youths to engage in premarital sex.
Speaking of which, I do find it funny that so many eroge today take place in high school... when most high schoolers can't even legally buy those games. So I'd guess it's young adults and a few sneaky high schoolers playing them??

Maybe the answer to that question will reveal another factor in why so many anime take place in high school.
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Old 2013-01-27, 22:13   Link #396
judasmartel
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
I've heard people say it's because high school is more relatable, but I don't think that a whole lot of people who bother to go to high school in Japan will just not go to college. lol
Pretty much this. But it sure is odd that some if not most Japanese don't go to college. I thought Asians place a high premium on education. And that's not even the stereotypical portrayal of Asians in the West. It's actually true to some extent, especially here in our country, where a college diploma is considered a first-class ticket to success in life.

Although, Filipino parents (in general) are much more relaxed than Asian parents are portrayed in the West when it comes to grades. All it matters to them is that their kids pass their classes (A's are better, but C's are just fine), unlike portrayals of Asians in the West (B's mean the end of the world).

On the other hand though, why bother getting a college diploma when all you have is a high school diploma in a country that can give you a decent job just as fine as a college diploma?

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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
Maybe the answer to that question will reveal another factor in why so many anime take place in high school.
To set or not to set in high school, that is the question.
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Old 2013-01-27, 22:25   Link #397
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Who knows? Maybe they are just fascinated in a high school setting. Maybe experiences in high school are memorable than in college. I don't know.
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Old 2013-01-27, 22:31   Link #398
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Heh, I don't have a problem with high school age characters...but what I DO have a problem with is the same boring school life routine, complete with the same boring events around the year....=_=

Character: Omg it's the annual Cultural Festival! Let's do a haunted house!
Me: =_= Not THIS again....
Character: Omg it's Valentine's Day and you have to make chocolate for the guy you love!!
Me: =__= NOT THIS AGAIN...
Character: Omg it's the annual Cultural Festival! Let's do a play with Snow White!
Me: ಠ益ಠ╬ NOT THIS AGAIN!!
Character: Red Riding Hood!
Me: No.
Character: Cinderella!
Me: NO!!
Character: KAGUYA-HIME
Me: I f*cking swear to God, if I see one more f*cking anime that does a f*cking Kaguya-hime play ONE MORE F*CKING TIME....!!!
*table-flipping mode: ON*

╯(ಠ益ಠ)╯︵ ┻━┻

.......you know what other cliche I'm really sick of?
Characters falling off cliffs.[INSERT DRAMA HERE]

You need drama? You need to make the heroine get alone time with her most potential love interest?
Okay, fine.
There's a better way to do that other than PUSHING HER OFF A CLIFF arghhhhhhhh!!! XD
That just makes her look stupid!

Ha, I should totally write a manga where the girl falls off a cliff and then five other girls come along and say "Hey, we all fell off too because we had a fight with our boyfriends and we didn't pay attention when we ran away but it's cool. Come party with us!"
XD
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Old 2013-01-27, 22:32   Link #399
judasmartel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormtrooper View Post
Who knows? Maybe they are just fascinated in a high school setting. Maybe experiences in high school are memorable than in college. I don't know.
That is true for some if not most people. College is still memorable, but in a different way than high school because that's the time you start becoming mature and responsible. And I can tell you, it's a very hard phase. You need to discard your childish habits in order to grow as a person. Sadly, though, I haven't discarded them yet.

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-snip-
You forgot White Day. But I don't see this often in anime, though.
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Old 2013-01-27, 22:43   Link #400
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
Pretty much this. But it sure is odd that some if not most Japanese don't go to college. I thought Asians place a high premium on education. And that's not even the stereotypical portrayal of Asians in the West. It's actually true to some extent, especially here in our country, where a college diploma is considered a first-class ticket to success in life.

Although, Filipino parents (in general) are much more relaxed than Asian parents are portrayed in the West when it comes to grades. All it matters to them is that their kids pass their classes (A's are better, but C's are just fine), unlike portrayals of Asians in the West (B's mean the end of the world).

On the other hand though, why bother getting a college diploma when all you have is a high school diploma in a country that can give you a decent job just as fine as a college diploma?



To set or not to set in high school, that is the question.
The thing about American portrayals of Asians is that it's based on how Asian Americans act, not Asian Asians since most of us havent even met any. Asian American immigrants who are 1st, 2nd, sometimes 3rd generation are usually hard on their kids to do well because they want their kids to do well in the new country, otherwise they're gonna have a hard life because they have no roots or support in the new country. Parents work hard to leave whatever they didn't like in their homeland to start a new life in America, and a college education is the best and most reliable way to succeed here now. I've seen it with all the African immigrants I knew too, they were treated the same way. Actually, all the immigrant kids I knew were like this except the ones from Latin America, I'm still trying to figure that one out... maybe because they're from closer continents?

I don't know about Japan, but here in USA there are very very few decent jobs for people without college degree, because we import all our unskilled labor. Seeing how rich Japan is, either they're like that too or will be soon...

Hm, Japanese people don't go to university often??? Since high school isn't even mandatory unless until recently, yet over 90% of kids go anyway, I thought they would do similar with university.

Last edited by Kudryavka; 2013-01-27 at 22:46. Reason: american portrayals, i got my typing mixed up
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