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Old 2010-09-23, 11:44   Link #41
4Tran
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First off, the idea that Ghibli is in financial straits is ludicrous. While their films are expensive to make, they also have ridiculous and enduring popularity in Japan and the accompanying sales figures to go with that. They're already so popular there that there's no realistic way of improving on that. The only way the studio can have problems money-wise would have to come down to incompetence.

Since that's not too likely, the complaint about Ghibli's position is more likely to be about their inability to find much success in North America. Here, the problem is probably more due to the fact that CGI animation is what's bringing people theatres nowadays. Even Disney's own try at 2D animation, 2009's The Princess and the Frog did poorly at the boxoffice, so why should Ghibli expect to do well? As is, they're trying to release a product that isn't well suited for North American audiences, that hasn't received decades of publicity, and that's in a format people no longer watch en masse.

The other problem is the one that's pointed out in this thread. I love Ghibli's older works, but I haven't been compelled to watch anything from them since Spirited Away came out. When such a storied studio can't stir my interest, then the problem would seem to be the quality of their actual product.
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Old 2010-09-23, 12:28   Link #42
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Ok so any sites that can state one way or another if they are closing down, moving to different business models or etc?
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Old 2010-09-23, 22:49   Link #43
orion
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I was hearing that Ghbli contracts with Disney includes a theatrical release before the DVD/BD release. The stuff gets a limited theatrical release. Even Tales of Earthsea that was panned got a theatrical release in the US. I think that Disney is doing enough. They shouldn't be expected to go under for Ghibli. If their movies can't make it here in the theaters, then Ghibli needs to get a clue and release straight to DVD/BD in the US.
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Old 2010-09-24, 12:53   Link #44
karice67
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Briefly on this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
they told Ursula le guin that Miyazaki himself will direct Earthsea. Which was why she gave the ok for it, then they turn around and handed it to Miyazaki's son.

to me that stinks.
Apparently, they didn't (say that Miyazaki snr himself would direct). He'd asked several times before and was refused - by the time Le Guin herself encountered (and loved) Totoro and approached Miyazaki, he'd lost his initial interest. That's not to say that he shouldn't have been more deeply involved in the production, but I'm sure there's many layers in this that we don't fully grasp.

@orion
I think I'd hate that (releasing straight to BD/DVD - though admittedly, I'm not in the US), because it really was quite magical seeing the Borrower Arrietty on the big screen, and I'd hope fans all around the world will have the chance to do the same for future Ghibli films.

@FlavorOfLife
The Borrower Arrietty seems to be enjoying a good reception in Japan, so it doesn't seem like the Ghibli's going to downsize anytime soon. A couple of films are apparently in development, and Miyazaki himself is contracted for two more.
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Old 2010-09-26, 03:36   Link #45
solomon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
First off, the idea that Ghibli is in financial straits is ludicrous. While their films are expensive to make, they also have ridiculous and enduring popularity in Japan and the accompanying sales figures to go with that. They're already so popular there that there's no realistic way of improving on that. The only way the studio can have problems money-wise would have to come down to incompetence.

Since that's not too likely, the complaint about Ghibli's position is more likely to be about their inability to find much success in North America. Here, the problem is probably more due to the fact that CGI animation is what's bringing people theatres nowadays. Even Disney's own try at 2D animation, 2009's The Princess and the Frog did poorly at the boxoffice, so why should Ghibli expect to do well? As is, they're trying to release a product that isn't well suited for North American audiences, that hasn't received decades of publicity, and that's in a format people no longer watch en masse.

The other problem is the one that's pointed out in this thread. I love Ghibli's older works, but I haven't been compelled to watch anything from them since Spirited Away came out. When such a storied studio can't stir my interest, then the problem would seem to be the quality of their actual product.
I'd hardly consider Princess and the Frog a failure when it doubled it's budget in box office recipts, if you add in the overseas gross.

People did point out that Ghibli is hardly in financial trouble, which is a good point.

Now Ghibli's trouble is that it seems to lack direction. Ghibli=Miyazaki in most cases. When Miyazaki leaves, what follows? As opposed to Disney, Pixar and classic Warner Bros studios, there doesn't seem to be a true rearing of directors at the studio.

Can Ghibli afford to go in drastically different direction with an outside director. Ghibli to me seems like Disney, I assume when people see Ghibli films they expect to see something Miyazaki like. If they deviate from that formula, they could be in trouble if not done right.

Anyway what I say stands, until America changes it's tune FROM THE INSIDE, no one should count on major slack being pulled from the US market, EVAR!
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Old 2010-09-26, 13:04   Link #46
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
I'd hardly consider Princess and the Frog a failure when it doubled it's budget in box office recipts, if you add in the overseas gross.
Sure, it probably made a profit worldwide, but that alone does not keep it from performing poorly at the boxoffice. Moreover, they couldn't even make back their budget in North America, and they grossed something like a third of what Ice Age 3 did at the same time. All this points to even mighty Disney, the best brand in Hollywood was unable to sell a 2D film that had tons of rave reviews. If they can't do much in North America given the literal decades of having a fantastic brand name and a massive amount of marketing, then why should Ghibli expect to do better? I don't think that North America has much appetite for these traditional films any more; especially if they're made by decisively non-household names like Miyazaki.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Now Ghibli's trouble is that it seems to lack direction. Ghibli=Miyazaki in most cases. When Miyazaki leaves, what follows? As opposed to Disney, Pixar and classic Warner Bros studios, there doesn't seem to be a true rearing of directors at the studio.

Can Ghibli afford to go in drastically different direction with an outside director. Ghibli to me seems like Disney, I assume when people see Ghibli films they expect to see something Miyazaki like. If they deviate from that formula, they could be in trouble if not done right.
This seems to be a separate problem from the one quoted in the OP. There, it's talking almost exclusively on the lack of penetration in North America. As it stands, the lack of new blood is probably real enough, and Miyazaki's dislike of the anime industry probably doesn't help things. It also doesn't help that Ghibli's offerings still perform very well in Japan itself - thus cutting down on the amount that they'd want to stray from the formula.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Anyway what I say stands, until America changes it's tune FROM THE INSIDE, no one should count on major slack being pulled from the US market, EVAR!
It's not going to happen when the US itself has seemed to have lost interest in 2D animation.
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Old 2010-09-27, 08:12   Link #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
Studio Ghibli's Plight

I'm glad that the people at Disney realize how important Ghibli is but in the end it is demand that spurs creators. I think that although many do want dubbed version of Ghibli works I think if it's due to low penetration DVD sales and online media would be the best way to promote upcoming movies. Anyway best way to help is to support Ghibli. I still think their dub of Ponyo was god awful and think that if want anyway to make an impact on American Audiences they need to start having their movies play on Disney Channel, ABC on Saturday Nights, just to get people interested in a great product.
Think I do a good enough job buying their dvds. Not sure if it's a bootleg but I don't give damn.

Ghibli will be back. I will merely sit back and watch the company do their work.
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Old 2010-10-03, 05:41   Link #48
Poetic Justice
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Wow @All the ghibli hate, I thought howl's moving castle was pretty good even though i disliked ponyo and earthsea.
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Old 2010-10-04, 04:52   Link #49
Fevvers
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I liked Howl's Moving Castle too for its whimsicalness and voice acting, granted it wasn't the best thing that came out of Ghibli. Convoluted plot is convoluted, then again the novel it was based on was even worse so I guess there was not much saving it on that front.
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Old 2011-08-16, 11:02   Link #50
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It seems we have a thread for most of the major anime studios, except Ghibli.

For lack of a better place, I'll link this CNN interview with Hayao Miyazaki to this thread. It is particularly relevant because Miyazaki discussed the philosophy behind Studio Ghibli's existence. The interview aired just last weekend (Aug 12, Fri). There was actually a later half in which Miyazaki talked briefly about his son Goro's decision to become an animation director, but it seems that clip has not been uploaded, not even by CNN.

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Old 2011-08-16, 11:55   Link #51
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
There was actually a later half in which Miyazaki talked briefly about his son Goro's decision to become an animation director, but it seems that clip has not been uploaded, not even by CNN.

I want to see that clip. Wonder why CNN hide it.

If Ghibli still insist in producing movies after H. Miyazaki left, I think it will be dark age for them, just like Disney in the 80s after the old Walt died. Still, Disney was able to succeed and brought Renaissance to their company due to their fresh talents. The question is, could Ghibli do the same later in the future?
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Old 2011-08-16, 12:05   Link #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post

I liked how he called his works "his children", but added the twist of how they "grew up and left me". That was pretty poetic, I thought.

It's also encouraging that, it seems, he hopes to personally help create at least one more animated feature film.


That being said, I think that what 4Tran said almost a year ago on this thread is correct: It's very hard to sell 2D animated feature films in the modern North American marketplace. For whatever reason, most movie-goers seem to consider them inherently inferior to CGI 3D (or 3D-esque) animated films. It's unfortunate, especially for somebody like myself, who genuinely prefers 2D animated films to CGI 3D-esque animated films at an aesthetic level.
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Old 2011-08-16, 12:36   Link #53
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
That being said, I think that what 4Tran said almost a year ago on this thread is correct: It's very hard to sell 2D animated feature films in the modern North American marketplace. For whatever reason, most movie-goers seem to consider them inherently inferior to CGI 3D (or 3D-esque) animated films. It's unfortunate, especially for somebody like myself, who genuinely prefers 2D animated films to CGI 3D-esque animated films at an aesthetic level.
Funny you should mention: In the missing second half of the interview, Miyazaki insisted that only those who loved drawing by hand belonged in Studio Ghibli. He may have accepted the need for 3-D in certain scenes, but Miyazaki stubbornly remains an old-school animator at heart. He openly admitted that hand-drawn animation is a dying art form, but said that is more the reason to keep it alive as far as possible at Studio Ghibli.

Sounds familiar? It should. The theme of fighting against inevitable extinction is echoed in several Miyazaki films and screenplays, most recently in Karigurashi no Arrietty, in which the Borrowers are a dying race that would nevertheless keep on living life to the fullest as long as they are able. This leitmotif has permeated much of Miyazaki's work since the culmination of the Nausicaa manga, where the theme first gained full expression.
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Old 2013-01-29, 04:01   Link #54
Kudryavka
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Ok, what the hell has happened to Ghibli?

Their films from 20th century were good. But stuff now, except SA, has poopoo story. Like Ponyo, the story was way too thin, and the ending seemed rushed. Most of the movie wasnt following the story at all, just showing interactions between Ponyo and the kid. The conflict isn't even addresed as much as needed to be of any emotional impact, really. Most of the movie just seemed to be about amazing animation. So why make a film and claim it's great when all that's good is visuals and music? If a film has a bad story or no story or neglects its story, it's a bad film, unfortunately. The story really feels like an afterthought to showing Ponyo's antics.

I noticed this problem also with Howls Moving Castle, but not as bad as Ponyo. Too much scenes full of great visual but devoid of any substance.
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Old 2013-01-29, 04:08   Link #55
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Guess anime fans today are more of moe fans now....
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Old 2013-01-29, 04:34   Link #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
So why make a film and claim it's great when all that's good is visuals and music? If a film has a bad story or no story or neglects its story, it's a bad film, unfortunately.
Maybe to you but not to me.
Not gonna defend ponyo since it's not among my favorite ghiblis though I did feel like I got my money's worth just for the character interaction alone.

Not ghibli but a movie like Redline completely neglects its story in favor of visuals and I love it,hell I even appreciate there being little story,it doesn't need one.

By saying that movies with no stories are bad you're calling all movies that accord more importance to character interaction rather than plot bad, Only Yesterday has a razor thin plot yet it's one of my favorite ghibli movie.
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Old 2013-01-29, 04:36   Link #57
Irenicus
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Uh, Ghibli doesn't sell moe. Their audience is the general public, the family-friendly general public. The moe phenomenon has nothing to do with it. Miyazaki even looks down on it, inferring from his general distaste of the overall anime industry.

If anything, barring the question of succession which was present for more than a decade already, Ghibli is doing fine. Each new Ghibli film still dominate box offices in Japan at release, and although people admit they don't quite hit the epic notes they did with Princess Mononoke or Spirited Away. So long as they look, sound, and feel as good as they do, hitting all the right notes of nostalgia and yearning for rural nature among the Japanese public...

As for their recent efforts, I liked Arrietty, even if not as much as I loved Spirited Away. It was directed by a young director, too, although still scripted by Miyazaki.

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And just FYI for people who don't pay much attention to dates: The thread is necro'd by Kudryavka, three posts above me. Nothing wrong with that, but people should know and don't respond to a conversation that ended eons ago when the sun was young and the world was green.
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Old 2013-01-29, 04:37   Link #58
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Maybe to you but not to me.
Not gonna defend ponyo since it's not among my favorite ghiblis though I did feel like I got my money's worth just for the character interaction alone.

Not ghibli but a movie like Redline completely neglects its story in favor of visuals and I love it,hell I even appreciate there being little story,it doesn't need one.

By saying that movies with no stories are bad you're calling all movies that accord more importance to character interaction rather than plot bad, Only Yesterday has a razor thin plot yet it's one of my favorite ghibli movie.
I forgot to put this.

Character interaction is fine, but in Ponyo it didnt really help the story after a point.

And I dont like movies that are just a showcase of animation. I think you should make theatre shorts or straight to DVD movies if you wanna make movie with little plot. Or do something like Fantasia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
And just FYI for people who don't pay much attention to dates: The thread is necro'd by Kudryavka, three posts above me. Nothing wrong with that, but people should know and don't respond to a conversation that ended eons ago when the sun was young and the world was green.
Hey dont blame me. If I made a new thread I would get a infraction and it would get deleted or merged into this one anyway. Dont blame me, blame these stupid site rules. I agree that dead threads should stay dead.
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Old 2013-01-29, 04:39   Link #59
Irenicus
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^I'm blaming what? "Nothing wrong with that" means, well, exactly it means. People just have tendencies to miss the date and someone will probably quote TRL's one year old post if I don't write that in bold.

Besides, on your opinion about what belongs where, why should they even listen to you and miss all the money they make in box offices each time they release the so-called animation showcases to the Japanese public?
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Old 2013-01-29, 04:45   Link #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
And I dont like movies that are just A SHOWCASE Of animation. I think you should make theatre shorts or straight to DVD movies if you wanna make movie with little plot.
Well I'm glad you're not the one making the decisions



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Hey dont blame me. If I made a new thread I would get a infraction and it would get deleted or merged into this one anyway. Dont blame me, blame these stupid site rules.
If you're unsure about creating a new thread or bringing back an old one you can always ask a mod which one they'd rather have you do before doing something,it's worked for me before.
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