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Old 2013-01-29, 19:17   Link #2501
Rising Dragon
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Well then you must not like a lot of the other characters, because many, many characters in Nanoha underwent similar personality changes on account of having a better standard of living and proper care after their personal conflicts. Among them being Fate, Vita, Otto, and Deed.
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Old 2013-01-29, 19:26   Link #2502
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There is a difference with those characters and Lutecia: they are not annoyingly loud as hell. And I know I can’t “hear” them but really I just can’t stand Lutecia as this crazy hyperactive girl. She looks like a hamster on caffeine the first time she appear talking to herself. But I like Vita and Fate. Otto and Deed… I couldn’t even see how they were before of this “change” so there is no point on talking about their development.

Even Vita and Fate didn’t change to a complete opposite personality when they get close to Nanoha and their stories were a little more focus than Lutecia’s.
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Old 2013-01-29, 20:03   Link #2503
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Sansker, you... Didn't pay much attention to any of the characters when they were introduced and how they changed, huh?

Let's break it down, shall we?

Been awhile since I thought about it, but anyway, no, Lutecia's change of personality is neither sudden nor unusual for this series.

Nove was once called cold hearted by people who watched StrikerS, however, they seemed to miss the part of Nove being ticked off about Subaru nearly killing Cinque, or the fact that she got flustered at the thought of Otto being a boy in the baths (she didn't know Otto was a girl). Not to mention that Nove was scared that Cinque was going to die and then got pissed when she saw Cinque again. Or in SSX, Nove belted Subaru and yelled at her for scaring her when she found Ixpellia.

Anyway, Lutecia's change of personality?

Let's go over the characters of the series.

In fact, I'll let Lutecia tell it from that snippet I wrote awhile back.

Quote:
Lutecia blushed and ducked her head. "But, seriously! It might not be realistic, but at least it's consistent!"

"How so?" Erio blinked as Lutecia suddenly grinned and held up a finger.

"You wanna know? Okay! Point 1..." She pointed at Nanoha. "You were only four or five years old when your father was hurt, you decided, during that time, that you would do all that you could to stay out of people's ways so that they wouldn't have to worry about you."

"Well, yeah..." Nanoha rubbed the back of her head sheepishly.

Lutecia then pointed at Fate. "Point 2! You, Fate, went from being even LESS emotional than me to being able to cry, smile, laugh and be happy in only six months!"

"Um, yes..." Fate blushed as people looked at her.

"Point 3! The Wolkenritter went from heartless killing machines to actual people in only the six months that they knew Hayate!" Lutecia then pointed at Subaru. "Point 4! You were Shinobu MK 2 before Nanoha rescued you. You needed people to hold your hand when you walked down the hallway so you didn't fall over and hurt yourself. Then in a week after meeting Nanoha, you became the tomboy we all loved later!"

Subaru just chuckled nervously. Oh, how true that was.

"Point 5!" She pointed at Teana. "You were a hot-headed, temperamental, over-achieving, under-confident gun fighter that straightened up to become one of the best mages around after Nanoha cooled your head a little."

Teana blushed hard as several people got a laugh out of that.

"Point 6!" Lutecia pointed at Caro. "You were a very shy, quiet and nervous little girl when Fate-san found you, but it didn't take you too long to become a normal girl, did it?"

"Fate-san gave me so much kindness that, no, it didn't take long..."

"Point 7!" She then pointed at Erio. "You were a violent and broken mess when Fate finally took you in. All she had to do was hug you and you finally broke down and started to undo all the damage that had been done to you. And that was less than 3 years before you joined Riot Force Six, wasn't it?"

"Um, yeah..." Erio scratched the back of his head.

Lutecia put a hand on her chest and grinned. "So, with all of that, how can Nove's change, or my ILLUSTRIOUS change for the better be so shocking?" She then grumbled and crossed her arms. "What's so shocking about it is that it took four years."
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Old 2013-01-29, 20:10   Link #2504
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Well, the difference here is we see how Nove changed after 3 years (and then another one). We don't really get the inbetween so that she's changed so much after such a long time is easy enough to believe.

However Lutecia was still pretty reserved in SSX, and a year later in Vivid she's all super genki. That big a change in such a short time is not so easy to swallow.
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Old 2013-01-29, 20:27   Link #2505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
However Lutecia was still pretty reserved in SSX, and a year later in Vivid she's all super genki. That big a change in such a short time is not so easy to swallow.
Again, Subaru, Teana, Erio and Caro with how fast they changed, or the Wolkenritter or Fate or even Nanoha.

So, no, I don't find it hard to swallow at all when you take a look at the characters in the series and you see that all of them had major changes in their lives and it didn't take them long to adjust.

I mean, Fate went from 'sad eyes' and barely able to crack a smile to smiling at Nanoha in season 1. Then point to A's and Fate's smiling and blushing easily.

That's six months, Raiser, six months.

Lutecia had four years to recover herself.

If anything, Lutecia's only out of place because she took too long.
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Old 2013-01-29, 20:37   Link #2506
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Those others had improvements to their personalities in a short time, yeah, but their base personalities were still the same. Fate was still (and is still) fairly shy and reserved for example. All the others you can clearly see they're still the same people, only better.

In Lutecia's case she went from very withdrawn to super outgoing between appearences to the extreme that it was like she was a completely different character.
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Old 2013-01-29, 20:53   Link #2507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Those others had improvements to their personalities in a short time, yeah, but their base personalities were still the same. Fate was still (and is still) fairly shy and reserved for example. All the others you can clearly see they're still the same people, only better.

In Lutecia's case she went from very withdrawn to super outgoing between appearences to the extreme that it was like she was a completely different character.
That's only because the other characters were seen through flashbacks, except for Fate.

Let's be honest, how many times did Fate hug someone in Season 1 or A's to show her support?

Once, at the end of Season 1.

by StrikerS, she was hugging Caro, Erio, Nanoha and even got into friendly verbal sparring with Signum, which leads Fate to getting her hair all mussed up.

So, no, it's not really a major nor drastic change. It only seems like that because, as I said, all the others were seen through flashbacks.
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Old 2013-01-29, 20:58   Link #2508
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Actually Nanya, yes, I have been paying attention to the characters and how they change. But you miss my point, is not just a matter of is weird or rare for the series: Lutecia’s change of personality is horrible just by concept alone to me. Her new self is annoying, loud and so ridicules that I just prefer her former self which was more reserve and calm. That is it. Now I didn’t get those parts about Nove. What she has to do with anything?

... What the hell, I like to debate, let’s check Lutecia’s points. First of all she is not consistent; actually that is the whole point: she change too much. Or is she meaning her character change on a constant base when she only changes once? Either way I don’t agree. Then she mentions some stuff that I don’t know why will matter but let’s get to that later.

1 – I think the point was Nanoha realize she was powerless to do anything to help, not to get out of people’s way. She was sad and feeling she didn’t belong to the same world as her family and she wanted to discover her place in life what she did thanks to magic. So… I don’t get why Lutecia is bringing that up as inconsistent.

2 – No. Fate was more emotional than Lutecia. She smile, she suffer, she was kind to Arf and Precia, she show fear, anger, surprise and in the past she laugh, play and cry. She did all of that before and after she have Nanoha. The difference is that when she was in the first season was in a point in her life when she lost Linith and Precia was getting more and more desperate, putting a lot of stress under Fate.

3 – Again, no. The Wolkenritter did have heart and feelings but they just were following orders, Hayate give them the first chance to live instead of just existing, that is why they like it too much.

4 – No. We never see Subaru until years after the accident, so the change did have the time to happen. Besides at that point Subaru was not a character.

5 – Point taken. That was the worst part of StrikerS.

6 – Caro was nervous when Fate found her because everyone just think she was a time bomb and a killer. That can scar a little kid and then again we never see her until years after.
7 – Erio didn’t have a character that is worth talking about.

All her points come down to this: it doesn’t matter. None of that is a proof the character change several times in an inconstant base, actually some are proof of good character development and lazy writing that I always found ridiculous about the series. Is stronger with StrikerS characters actually.
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Old 2013-01-29, 21:03   Link #2509
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Lutecia’s change of personality is horrible just by concept alone.
That is outright untrue. Any kind of character can be good or bad.
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Old 2013-01-29, 21:05   Link #2510
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Old 2013-01-29, 21:06   Link #2511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
That's only because the other characters were seen through flashbacks, except for Fate.

Let's be honest, how many times did Fate hug someone in Season 1 or A's to show her support?

Once, at the end of Season 1.

by StrikerS, she was hugging Caro, Erio, Nanoha and even got into friendly verbal sparring with Signum, which leads Fate to getting her hair all mussed up.
There were 10 years between season 1 and StrikerS. Like I said, changes in such a long period of time are easier to accept. Tons of stuff can happen in 10 years, especially when a child becomes an adult.

The bulk of my issue (which is a non-issue now) with Lutecia is that there was ONE year between SSX and Vivid. That's too short for a drastic change to happen. At least not one where everyone around her acts like she was always like that. If some one commented "Wow Lutecia sure has changed in only a year!" at least there's some acknowledgement.

If SSX didn't exist, then I'd have no problem accepting that Lutecia became like that in the 4 years after StrikerS.
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Old 2013-01-29, 21:07   Link #2512
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2 No. Fate was more emotional than Lutecia. She smile, she suffer, she was kind to Arf and Precia, she show fear, anger, surprise and in the past she laugh, play and cry. She did all of that before and after she have Nanoha. The difference is that when she was in the first season was in a point in her life when she lost Linith and Precia was getting more and more desperate, putting a lot of stress under Fate.
Ironically that was also kind of the point with Lutecia, if she seemed calm and stoic during StrikerS it was because she was passing trough a very stressful moment in her life when her mother's life was depending almost entirely on her actions and decisions, an enormous weight to put over the shoulders of a small child like her (...plus, she was working with Jail Scaglietti of all people xDU). Like Fate, she was acting cold due to circunstances not allowing her space for any distractions like fun or curiosity. So, after such circunstances changed for the better she had the chance to grow as a normal girl who lauhgs, cry and have both serious and silly dreams xD
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Old 2013-01-29, 21:11   Link #2513
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Yes, but even so Fate didn't change to a hyperactive girl who can't seem to stand still when she is talking to herself
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Old 2013-01-29, 21:13   Link #2514
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Yes, but even so Fate didn't change to a hyperactive girl who can't seem to stand still when she is talking to herself
To Fate's credit, she grows with the formation of a TSAB officer under Lindy's guidance while Lutecia spent 4 years with her mother in a nice place baking cookies and learning how to craft fashionable devices, a quite different and much more relaxed and carefree enviroment xD

Fate is more disciplined and composed because her life was more exigent xD
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Old 2013-01-29, 21:14   Link #2515
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There were 10 years between season 1 and StrikerS. Like I said, changes in such a long period of time are easier to accept. Tons of stuff can happen in 10 years, especially when a child becomes an adult.

The bulk of my issue (which is a non-issue now) with Lutecia is that there was ONE year between SSX and Vivid. That's too short for a drastic change to happen. At least not one where everyone around her acts like she was always like that. If some one commented "Wow Lutecia sure has changed in only a year!" at least there's some acknowledgement.

If SSX didn't exist, then I'd have no problem accepting that Lutecia became like that in the 4 years after StrikerS.
Again, Nanoha, at age FOUR, decided to do all that she could to not worry anyone and became the Nanoha we saw in Season 1. Age four.

Lutecia changed in one year, yeah, that's not too surprising at all...

Look at Otto and Deed. In strikerS, they were quiet and people had a hard time remembering them.

Right after they got captured, Subaru commented that the two were chatterboxes that never shut up.

And the Wolkenritter.

Six months to go from emotionless, though curious, into a loving family.

Six months.
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Old 2013-01-29, 21:17   Link #2516
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Wait, Nanoha was 5 or 4 when she decide that?

Then again we never see Deed or Otto talk, so really just because they mention them we can't just asume they change. As for the rest I already say what I think.

Lutecia's change stills seems weak and idiot to me.
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Old 2013-01-29, 21:22   Link #2517
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Wait, Nanoha was 5 or 4 when she decide that?

Then again we never see Deed or Otto talk, so really just because they mention them we can't just asume they change. As for the rest I already say what I think.

Lutecia's change stills seems weak and idiot to me.
Yes, she was 4-5 when her father got injured.

And, that's the point of Otto and Deed, they just never talked much in StrikerS, but in the sound stages they do talk a little more and Subaru mentioned that, when in rehab, they never shut up.

So, no, while you can say that it's weird or Raiser can say that it seems too fast, if you look at all the characters throughout the series, it fits in perfectly.

So, it might not make a lot of sense, but it's consistent.
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Old 2013-01-29, 21:25   Link #2518
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Maybe you are right after all.

I just can't end liking something that, to me, ruin something I like. Lutecia was nothing memorable but like I say, she was nice before and now she just sucks. But I will say that the poor writting is more of an issue in StrikerS than in the past. Some of your points don't hold up to this theory at least not as radical as Lutecia's change was. Some of them, the others are good examples. But at all this you never say what you think about it Nanya.
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Old 2013-01-29, 21:29   Link #2519
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Me personally?

I have no problems with it.

Sure, it was shocking to see her like that, and it's hilarious to see her standing on the house laughing, but, all-in-all, I have no real problems with her acting like that.

As I've said, it might not make much sense, but it's consistent with the other characters who changed who they were in a really short amount of time.

Heck, look at Erio in the first Manga chapter he shows up in, he's pretty happy and perky.

It wasn't even 2 years prior to that when Fate found him at that research facility, and he was quite willing and able to lash out at everyone around him. Hell, he blasted Fate the moment she got close to him.

So, no, I have no problem with it, at all.
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Old 2013-01-29, 21:49   Link #2520
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I see, me is just I never like character that go all out in the first place and worse when I knew Lutecia as the more calm self. So that really shock me. Is like someone grab something you like, twisted and then just throw it a you without even a "look out" warning.
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