AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Accel World

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-01-30, 00:02   Link #321
Orange Duke
オレンジ色の王
*Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 10
The only problem I find with Faker is this:

Quote:
If Kaleidoscope Faker reached Level 9 and sunk all bonuses into this upgrade, he could possibly STORE the form of anyone he's ever copied, even if they've been deleted from the Accelerated World.
This means that he could copy the forms of all of the Kings, thus giving him access to three out of the Seven Arcs, possibly four, if we include White Cosmos (assuming she has the Luminary). Throw in Trilead Tetreaoxide and we've got five, adding the Infinity into the mix.

Furthermore, if we consider the pre-cursor to this ability:

Quote:
2) Remove Mimic's restrictions. For example, being able to cancel the transformation early, so that Faker can choose a different target when his current form is no longer advantageous.
That means at level 9, he can freely switch between five of the Seven Arcs. Even having one is a colossal advantage. Imagine if he has five. No matter the lack of experience, the power alone would crush all the Kings.

Not to mention with this much power, he could possibly break into the dungeon where the Fluctuating Light is stored and take it for himself.

When the enemies pile on, switch to Grande and tank, then switch to Knight or Lotus to knock them back, throw the enemies into confusion with Silly Go Round, following up with a lightning storm courtesy of the Tempest, and then rain hell upon them with the Immobile Fortress. Repeat and rinse.
Orange Duke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 06:10   Link #322
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Perhaps, the Seven Arcs should be the only items he cannot fully copy? Or maybe he can only store one of them at a time, and needs to see another to switch?


And obviously, he shouldn't be able to switch between stored forms that quickly, if it would make him so powerful. Perhaps instead, his upgrades allow him to store a set number of forms (just as Dusk Taker could steal a set number of things).

But remember that if he's invested that far into "remove restrictions", he has totally forsaken copying the level up bonuses of others. We really don't know how powerful any of the kings would be, if they lost all of those.

Especially since those bonuses start getting scary powerful the higher your level is.*


* To be clear, I think that leveling up improves an avatar's basic capabilities a bit, such that Black Lotus ends up wicked fast and strong compared to lesser avatars despite focusing her upgrades on her blades, and Yellow Radio is just as fast and strong despite probably focusing on Yellow abilities.

Bonuses are just that -- a bonus on top of the general increase, which allows you to gain completely new capabilities.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 07:25   Link #323
Orange Duke
オレンジ色の王
*Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Perhaps, the Seven Arcs should be the only items he cannot fully copy? Or maybe he can only store one of them at a time, and needs to see another to switch?
Being able to copy any of the Arcs would make it an extremely easy way to obtain one though. While all Faker has to do is to look at any holder of one of the Arcs, the poor fellow had to fight his/her way through a dungeon crawling with enemies, putting burst points and access to the program itself at risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
And obviously, he shouldn't be able to switch between stored forms that quickly, if it would make him so powerful. Perhaps instead, his upgrades allow him to store a set number of forms (just as Dusk Taker could steal a set number of things).
I don't think Taker's powers work that way. One of the members here offered a pretty solid explanation. If we were to compare Taker's storage to a data bank, and each skill/Enhanced Armament he steals as a file where the better a skill/Enhanced Armament is, the larger the file size, that would mean that Taker would be unable to steal any skill/Enhanced Armament that is too powerful for his avatar. This would also explain why he was unable to steal Cyan Pile's pile driver: because he didn't have enough space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
But remember that if he's invested that far into "remove restrictions", he has totally forsaken copying the level up bonuses of others. We really don't know how powerful any of the kings would be, if they lost all of those.

Especially since those bonuses start getting scary powerful the higher your level is.*


* To be clear, I think that leveling up improves an avatar's basic capabilities a bit, such that Black Lotus ends up wicked fast and strong compared to lesser avatars despite focusing her upgrades on her blades, and Yellow Radio is just as fast and strong despite probably focusing on Yellow abilities.

Bonuses are just that -- a bonus on top of the general increase, which allows you to gain completely new capabilities.
Yes, but the loophole here is that it only affects the avatar itself. It doesn't take into consideration the Enhanced Armament it copies. Something like the Seven Arcs don't have level-up bonuses piled into them, so they are unaffected. Rare items like Star Caster or Mystical Reins, which are usually extremely hard to find (in the case of Mystical Reins, we have to assume so, as the system isn't going to leave something like that lying around in the middle of a field.), are now possible to obtain just by looking at them.

I wish I could get things just by looking at them too.
Orange Duke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 08:26   Link #324
Tusjecht
Anomaly / 矛盾存在
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Age: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange Duke View Post
Being able to copy any of the Arcs would make it an extremely easy way to obtain one though. While all Faker has to do is to look at any holder of one of the Arcs, the poor fellow had to fight his/her way through a dungeon crawling with enemies, putting burst points and access to the program itself at risk.

Yes, but the loophole here is that it only affects the avatar itself. It doesn't take into consideration the Enhanced Armament it copies. Something like the Seven Arcs don't have level-up bonuses piled into them, so they are unaffected. Rare items like Star Caster or Mystical Reins, which are usually extremely hard to find (in the case of Mystical Reins, we have to assume so, as the system isn't going to leave something like that lying around in the middle of a field.), are now possible to obtain just by looking at them.

I wish I could get things just by looking at them too.
I find this OP as well. If Faker can become a level 7 SC just by looking at a level 1 SC...he's the new best friend of every newbie linker. Legions would be fighting tooth and nail just for a favour from him. Level 1 Green Grande? Give his tanking power a boost to protect the whole tag team. You get the idea.

For my first fanfic this was exactly what I did with my avatar, a special move 'Dye' changes him into one of the six pure colours. Absolutely broken. Deal damage till gauge is full, switch to green for tanking until your gauge is full again...there's specialisation in everything.

You could limit Faker from Enhanced Armaments, but still...if you copy Black Lotus in a fight against NN, kill her members, and rope in your friends in the UNF, it becomes a skewed fight. In a duel, however, you'll lose; Ditto versus anything is very risky for fights.

Sorry Gold, but I can't let this one pass.
__________________
All possibilities till now are just on the other side of the Light, only Fluctuating slightly. Only Fluctuating slightly...

Last edited by Tusjecht; 2013-01-30 at 09:17. Reason: Silly typos
Tusjecht is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 08:38   Link #325
Orange Duke
オレンジ色の王
*Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 10
The concept is interesting and well thought out, but because of its nature, it invariably ends up as ridiculously OP. Once it's been nerfed to an acceptable level, so much of the original concept has already been lost that it's no longer the same avatar.
Orange Duke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 09:20   Link #326
Tusjecht
Anomaly / 矛盾存在
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Age: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange Duke View Post
The concept is interesting and well thought out, but because of its nature, it invariably ends up as ridiculously OP. Once it's been nerfed to an acceptable level, so much of the original concept has already been lost that it's no longer the same avatar.
Not so much OP, but a double-edged Excaliber. Say, Faker faces off Blue Knight. He copies Knight, but doesn't get The Impulse as I suggested earlier. This still leaves Faker vulnerable to the weak spots Blue Knight has; copying, I presume, carries over weakness as well.

It then becomes very easy for Blue Knight to win. All he has to do is to attack the weak spot of Faker/Knight and unless Faker can learn fast enough, he just wasted 10 BP.
__________________
All possibilities till now are just on the other side of the Light, only Fluctuating slightly. Only Fluctuating slightly...
Tusjecht is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 09:27   Link #327
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by tusjecht View Post
I find this OP as well. If Faker can become a level 7 SC just by looking at a level 1 SC...he's the new best friend of every newbie linker
Being able to show a newbie what their options look like is nice, yes, but is that so bad? And is he going to be the sort of guy you ask for a favor?


Quote:
Legions would be fighting tooth and nail just for a favour from him. Level 1 Green Grande? Give his tanking power a boost to protect the whole tag team. You get the idea.
Why is a level 1 Grandee better than any level one Green avatar? Especially if Faker can't copy the Strife? And Grandee would need to participate in the fight to be a valid target; why would he bother?


Quote:
For my first fanfic this was exactly what I did with my avatar, a special move 'Dye' changes him into one of the six pure colours. Absolutely broken. Deal damage till gauge is full, switch to green for tanking until your gauge is full again...there's specialisation in everything.
Impossible. The time-limit of 30 minutes prevents such a change. Even upgrades would never allow him to change his form a limitless number of times in a duel.


Quote:
if you copy Black Lotus in a fight against NN, kill her members
Any King could do that, and Faker would nees to be level nine to fully copy her. Assuming that he invested in perfect copying.


Quote:
and rope in your friends in the UNF, it becomes a skewed fight.
Huh?
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 09:36   Link #328
Tusjecht
Anomaly / 矛盾存在
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Age: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Being able to show a newbie what their options look like is nice, yes, but is that so bad? And is he going to be the sort of guy you ask for a favor?
Ever heard of a loli baking you cookies, greeting you at home, calling you Big Bro, and planned to ask you to help her get her BP? :P It's the same as a rich-man's dilemma; once you've got a million bucks, you can't know for sure if the people around you love you or love your money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Why is a level 1 Grandee better than any level one Green avatar? Especially if Faker can't copy the Strife? And Grandee would need to participate in the fight to be a valid target; why would he bother?
Because two heads are better than one. The shields Grande uses only protects him from frontal attacks. If Faker paired with Grande, for example, it won't matter they've only got one Strife when two powerful defenses are available for tanking. Even more so in a UNF, when Grande is tired (IF he gets tired), Faker can copy, swap out, and keep tanking. It's an alternating tank strategy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Impossible. The time-limit of 30 minutes prevents such a change. Even upgrades would never allow him to change his form a limitless number of times in a duel.
Let's leave it as a moot point. I deleted the fanfic later once I realised it was truly OP-ed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Any King could do that, and Faker would need to be level nine to fully copy her. Assuming that he invested in perfect copying.
Yes, but while Lotus is occupied with Faker faking her, her other *cough* weaker *cough* members of NN are a little more vulnerable especially when outnumbered. SC is weak against long-range and we already know Taku is only balanced with Splash Stinger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Huh?
Referring to the part above, I refer to battle royales in the UNF.
__________________
All possibilities till now are just on the other side of the Light, only Fluctuating slightly. Only Fluctuating slightly...
Tusjecht is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 09:41   Link #329
Tusjecht
Anomaly / 矛盾存在
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Age: 19
Just for emphasis, Gold. Faker's usefulness as an ally thus lies in his duplication; not just mimicking another avatar, he's copying their strengths to use in battle against a common enemy! How would you like to be facing two Silver Crows, or Blue Knights, or Dusk Takers (urgh), or two Black Lotuses? Remember that Taker's ability lay in his special move which would get copied because it's not an Armament.
__________________
All possibilities till now are just on the other side of the Light, only Fluctuating slightly. Only Fluctuating slightly...
Tusjecht is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 09:59   Link #330
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Let's shelve this whole idea for now. Suffice to say that the basic idea is great for an Enemy, but very hard to make work as a Duel Avatar.

Next idea: Yellow Stopwatch

Based on Izayoi Sakuya, of Touhou project. Her basic attacks are fencing knives and throwing knives, so she favors no particular range.

Her special move is to cancel the Acceleration effect of the Accelerated World for a limited radius around her. Doesnt require a full gauge, but eats through a full meter ridiculously fast. Gives her the illusion of super-speed and teleportation, but not absolute dominance. Probably, anything she touches unfreezes, discouraging her from punching someone when stopping time, but letting her move objects and allies.

For duels, the radius extends over the whole battlefield and affects spectators.

Since "Watch Witch" is taken, she would probably earn the name "Chrono Killer".
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 10:13   Link #331
Tusjecht
Anomaly / 矛盾存在
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Age: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Let's shelve this whole idea for now. Suffice to say that the basic idea is great for an Enemy, but very hard to make work as a Duel Avatar.

Next idea: Yellow Stopwatch

Based on Izayoi Sakuya, of Touhou project. Her basic attacks are fencing knives and throwing knives, so she favors no particular range.

Her special move is to cancel the Acceleration effect of the Accelerated World for a limited radius around her. Doesnt require a full gauge, but eats through a full meter ridiculously fast. Gives her the illusion of super-speed and teleportation, but not absolute dominance. Probably, anything she touches unfreezes, discouraging her from punching someone when stopping time, but letting her move objects and allies.

For duels, the radius extends over the whole battlefield and affects spectators.

Since "Watch Witch" is taken, she would probably earn the name "Chrono Killer".
I see two problems with this.

1) Mainly, the question of the colour yellow. It's not impossible for BB to assign two players the same colour, just an absurdly small probability. There's Vise and Lotus as the only example. Graphite Edge might count if the colour is really dark grey.

2) Moving 1000x faster relative to other Linkers. This..is mainly mind-blowing. You say it eats SP gauge fast, but I suppose she can either reduce cost or increase duration with upgrades.

The main issue now is whether it might count as too fast. If she sets knives elsewhere, then the opponent has virtually no time to react at all. Knives will fly and he's well and truly Za Warudo-ed.

are we still discussing the or the brother complex avatar? But let's finish Sakuya Stopwatch first.
__________________
All possibilities till now are just on the other side of the Light, only Fluctuating slightly. Only Fluctuating slightly...

Last edited by Tusjecht; 2013-01-31 at 09:00.
Tusjecht is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 11:02   Link #332
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Yellow is just a placeholder. The idea is that she is Yellowish.

"Stopping time" would/could be the result of dumping bonuses into improving a basic "slow-down", rather than the initial ability.


As to the little sister, I had the last word on her. If you want to talk more, the ball's in your court.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 11:16   Link #333
Tusjecht
Anomaly / 矛盾存在
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Age: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Yellow is just a placeholder. The idea is that she is Yellowish.

"Stopping time" would be the result of dumping bonuses into improving a basic "slow-down", rather than the initial ability.


As to the little sister, I had the last word on her. If you want to talk more, the ball's in your court.
Oh right, sorry about that.

I accept the Yellow Sakuya for now. Whatever colour she gets will definitely be a highly saturated one for sure.

For the 'teleport' an ally, I was thinking more towards teleporting her brother back to her side from anywhere he is. This works well in a tag team; from afar, support bro with any bonuses and help. If a close-range sneaks up, teleport bro back to fight off stalker. As a duel avatar, however, it makes zero sense because you're basically bringing your opponent to your face.

If the teleporting idea cannot hold water well enough, then my current idea is more towards a support type; by maintaining contact with a target avatar, she either enhances the avatar with a stats buff or damages it with a stats degradation. Tricky, but really strong if you think of it:

She holds on to Silver Crow. Boom, super flight, or not so bad in melee fighting.

She holds onto Cyan Pile. Decreases recovery time or the spike is more penetrating.

Enemy grabs her. Wrong move sir, your special gauge starts dropping for no reason.

That's what I could think of.

EDIT: Maybe not so. Maybe I was over-thinking the whole thing, would it be normal is she just had long-range firepower? either that, or any ability that fits the wish of 'I reject the world because all I need is my brother.'
__________________
All possibilities till now are just on the other side of the Light, only Fluctuating slightly. Only Fluctuating slightly...
Tusjecht is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 15:04   Link #334
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by tusjecht View Post
For the 'teleport' an ally, I was thinking more towards teleporting her brother back to her side from anywhere he is. This works well in a tag team; from afar, support bro with any bonuses and help. If a close-range sneaks up, teleport bro back to fight off stalker. As a duel avatar, however, it makes zero sense because you're basically bringing your opponent to your face.
Again, all abilities need to be able to work for yourself in a duel. For example, I'm pretty sure that Lime Bell is able to use Citron Call on herself.

But it's possible (if not canonical) that when you achieve Level 4 and gain access to the UNF, the game might provide options which are useless for dueling. For example, Lime Bell's Enemy-summoning ability -- is that from a bonus or is it an item she acquired from elsewhere?


Quote:
by maintaining contact with a target avatar, she either enhances the avatar with a stats buff or damages it with a stats degradation.
That's two different abilities, both of which are clearly Green given how short-range they are and how dependent the avatar would need to be on personal toughness to survive attempting it.


Quote:
She holds on to Silver Crow. Boom, super flight, or not so bad in melee fighting.
Super flight is reduced by her weight and the akwardness of needing to balance her weight and manuever her additional mass around shots. And this is presuming that she has her own method of remaining securely latched onto a speeding, juking lightning bolt.


Quote:
She holds onto Cyan Pile. Decreases recovery time or the spike is more penetrating.
But Pile has to deal with the additional weight on his back.


Quote:
Enemy grabs her. Wrong move sir, your special gauge starts dropping for no reason.
Only a grappling specialist would grab her. They'd otherwise punch, kick, stab or shoot her. Eventually, even the grappling specialists would know better than to grab her.


Quote:
EDIT: Maybe not so. Maybe I was over-thinking the whole thing, would it be normal is she just had long-range firepower? either that, or any ability that fits the wish of 'I reject the world because all I need is my brother.'
If her wish is to reject the whole world while embracing just one person...

I'm thinking of a bubble force-field large enough to contain one other person...

Or a special attack where she and one other person occupy the eye of the storm. Perhaps a literal storm; a tornado that shields herself and one other from attacks while blowing intruders away.


In the second case, a lightweight version of Sand Duct whose abilities are apparently "magical". Like an Airbender from Avatar the Last Airbender. (Afterall, I don't see bulky generators on Purple Thorn or flamethrowers on Ardor Maiden.)

I doubt we ever saw Sand Duct's special attack; the vaccuum pull was not so powerful that it would require SP.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 15:31   Link #335
Orange Duke
オレンジ色の王
*Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Lime Bell's Enemy-summoning ability -- is that from a bonus or is it an item she acquired from elsewhere?
From the Light Novel thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange Duke View Post
Spoiler for Lime Bell in Volume 12:
Orange Duke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 16:07   Link #336
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
I refuse to be spoiled again.

A simple Yes or No will suffice, won't it?
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 19:18   Link #337
Orange Duke
オレンジ色の王
*Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 10
Not sure why you would want that kind of answer to a question formatted like that but since you insist:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Lime Bell's Enemy-summoning ability -- is that from a bonus or is it an item she acquired from elsewhere?
Yes.



But anyway, skill available from an item.
Orange Duke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 20:20   Link #338
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Of course it's an item. I'm asking if it came from a level up bonus or not.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-30, 21:11   Link #339
Orange Duke
オレンジ色の王
*Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 10
Further research on said item seems to indicate that it is in fact her bell.
Orange Duke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-01-31, 07:11   Link #340
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Lime Bell's Choir Chime, which enables the Citron Call. (So many names can get confusing.)

So, the monster-luring sound is an upgrade to the Chime, chosen from a level up bonus?
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
discussion, fanfiction

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.