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Old 2013-01-31, 13:55   Link #4041
Tak
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Just read the original article in Chinese.

Well...

Just as you thought China was moving towards the direction of a modernized industrial super power... it pulls a stunt like this... from none other than a government sanctioned newspaper. Or to be exact... the Chinese Defense Department.

Woe is China... woe...

And this is a country spending approximately half as much as the US on the military.

- Tak
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Old 2013-01-31, 13:59   Link #4042
Endless Knackwurst
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This makes the "We were afraid that the show would look too Nazi" problem quite hilarious in hindsight.

(What's the Mauser C96 and scope doing there, anyway? A sidebar on modding Han Solo's blaster?)
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Old 2013-01-31, 14:01   Link #4043
Tak
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That is an excerpt from China's defense magazine. Its talking about the modifications done to the Mauser C96 by a certain Russian collector.

The entire page is filled with anti-Japanese sentiment & very racist language. It is not a very healthy thing to read...

What is extra funny, the article on GuP criticizes the animation for being a covert attempt to restart militarism... yet this is coming from a country that has been on this track for as long as I can remember. I have seen terrible stuff coming out from China's internet community. GuP is absolutely nothing compared to their rampant BS.

But this makes me wonder... what would happen if the same people reviewed Moe-Moe Nazis?

- Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2013-01-31 at 14:23.
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Old 2013-01-31, 14:32   Link #4044
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
Well, something like this happened....

[SNIP]

LOL
That's pretty hilarious. It's interesting that their objection is to Girls und Panzer considering all the better candidates out there. I guess the show's pretty popular in China.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Just as you thought China was moving towards the direction of a modernized industrial super power... it pulls a stunt like this... from none other than a government sanctioned newspaper. Or to be exact... the Chinese Defense Department.
You don't associate a modernized industrial power with militarism? Don't those two go hand in hand?

On the other front, not a whole lot of people take articles like this seriously; especially not the Chinese people. Look at all the comments making fun of them.

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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
But this makes me wonder... what would happen if the same people reviewed Moe-Moe Nazis?

- Tak
They'd say that Japanese mangaka are secretly Nazi-lovers?
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Old 2013-01-31, 14:37   Link #4045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
They'd say that Japanese mangaka are secretly Nazi-lovers?
Asides from the fact that Japan seems to have an open hard-on for Nazi styling?
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Old 2013-01-31, 14:38   Link #4046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
You don't associate a modernized industrial power with militarism? Don't those two go hand in hand?
You know there are a lot of counter examples to this trend

Hell, the US in the 30s certainly was no military power.

And Canada? Nah. Though they are both perfectly industrialized nations.

That being said, of course most people, even Chinese people would ridicule this crap. But to have a hilarity like this published by a government agency is in no way, shape or form a method to garner respect for that government. In fact, it just backfired again like it always does and do more to expose the hypocrisy that is the Chinese government.

Of course, this is also an agency that fabricated a fictional story to flame Chinese nationalism during the Senkaku island crisis.

- Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2013-01-31 at 15:01.
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Old 2013-01-31, 15:19   Link #4047
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Asides from the fact that Japan seems to have an open hard-on for Nazi styling?
I was implying that they'd be wrong about the secret part. I'm still a bit surprised that the magazine picked on Girls und Panzer instead of Strike Witches. That show would have made for a better article (even if it too would be silly) - the characters are even based on actual soldiers and everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
You know there are a lot of counter examples to this trend

Hell, the US in the 30s certainly was no military power.
The country with the largest navy in the world at the time isn't considered a military power? Besides, a nation can have periods of peace activism before (or after) taking a militaristic stance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
And Canada? Nah. Though they are both perfectly industrialized nations.
Canada was never a great power, and it had the distinct advantage of never having to worry about getting attacked by a foreign power without support from the U.S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
That being said, of course most people, even Chinese people would ridicule this crap. But to have a hilarity like this published by a government agency is in no way, shape or form a method to garner respect for that government. In fact, it just backfired again like it always does and do more to expose the hypocrisy that is the Chinese government.
This is literally nothing - it's just a random magazine article that nobody takes seriously. It certainly doesn't say anything about the Chinese government. If this were official policy like the banning of all TV shows based on games or internet novels, then we can start talking.
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Old 2013-01-31, 15:37   Link #4048
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Besides, a nation can have periods of peace activism before (or after) taking a militaristic stance.
Militarism does not necessarily go hand-to-hand with industrialization, that is all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
This is literally nothing - it's just a random magazine article that nobody takes seriously. It certainly doesn't say anything about the Chinese government.
If it was some random no-name magazine article then I definitely agree with you. Except this is from the online version of the PLA Daily, the official newspaper of the Central Military Commission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
If this were official policy like the banning of all TV shows based on games or internet novels, then we can start talking.
Banning is insignificant next to the powers of bootlegging!

Gotta love em Chinese bootlegs

- Tak
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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
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Old 2013-01-31, 15:46   Link #4049
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Canada was never a great power, and it had the distinct advantage of never having to worry about getting attacked by a foreign power without support from the U.S.
Except by the US while it was still part of the United Kingdom in 1812. That said, yes, our military strength has never been particularly high. You can see that Canada contributed less manpower (less-than-half) than India did in WW2. In WW1, the Canadians mobilized 600,000 to the U.S. ~4 million.

Please keep in mind though that the U.S. army was tiny prior to WW1 as well. The massive size of the population made boosting those numbers very easy though ..
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Old 2013-01-31, 15:48   Link #4050
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
Except by the US while it was still part of the United Kingdom in 1812.
Now you mentioned it, in the 20s Great Britain was the US' primary antagonist in naval exercises. There was even a plan drawn out for a massive invasion of Canada if necessary...

- Tak
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Old 2013-01-31, 16:01   Link #4051
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Experts believed that the naval arms races pretty much decided in the 1920s that the US and UK were going to be the next logical enemies over trade and economic reasons. Save that these experts never did find any reason to spark hostility between the two powers in the wake of the Great War outside of building large battleships (which the US could do and the UK could no longer afford, but would attempt to maintian status as the largest naval power in the world. As it had been for the last several hundred years).

Instead the Americans decided to end the arms race and called in the naval powers to Washington and they hammered out a treaty that ended battleship construction for the UK, US, and Japan for over a decade. (Italy and France stopped for about a decade, but rearming of Germany's navy changed that even before the rise of the Nazi Government).

And the US had plans to invade or counter everybody and anybody. It was just what military planners did.
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Old 2013-01-31, 16:03   Link #4052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
There was even a plan drawn out for a massive invasion of Canada if necessary...
Somebody has to control all that maple syrup!

The People's Liberation Army: So big that you can't get our name out of the People's Liberation Army Navy and People's Liberation Army Naval Air Force.

The PLA Daily is this bored? Where were they when Muv-Luv Alternative Total Eclipse was airing?
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Old 2013-01-31, 16:41   Link #4053
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Militarism does not necessarily go hand-to-hand with industrialization, that is all.
Industrialization's assiciation with militarism may be tenuous, but the one between being a great power and militarism is very strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
If it was some random no-name magazine article then I definitely agree with you. Except this is from the online version of the PLA Daily, the official newspaper of the Central Military Commission.
Who cares? Almost all newspapers in China are owned by the government, so it doesn't make much difference whether it's a more prestigious source or not. And it's not as if the article is supposed to be some sort of policy statement. All it is is a source of ridicule, most of which is being made by Chinese readers at that. I'd be more worried about a random FOX News commentator spouting things about the yellow peril.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Banning is insignificant next to the powers of bootlegging!

Gotta love em Chinese bootlegs

- Tak
Actually, these bans are imposed by SARFT and they have a real world effect. If certain kinds of shows can't be broadcast in China, then there's incentive for TV companies to work their shows around the imposed limits. This isn't even confined to Mainland TV either - Hong Kong, Taiwan and even Korean shows that want to get shown in China's massive market will also have to abide by SARFT's guidelines.

And of course, we can see Hollywood doing the same thing for films.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
Except by the US while it was still part of the United Kingdom in 1812.
That would have been in the pre-industrial era when things were very different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
And the US has plans to invade or counter everybody and anybody. It was just what military planners do.
Corrected for accuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst View Post
Somebody has to control all that maple syrup!

The People's Liberation Army: So big that you can't get our name out of the People's Liberation Army Navy and People's Liberation Army Naval Air Force.

The PLA Daily is this bored? Where were they when Muv-Luv Alternative Total Eclipse was airing?
Maybe Chinese fans don't care about that show, so nobody knows about Muv Luv. I can easily see Girls und Panzer being a lot more popular in China.
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Old 2013-01-31, 16:43   Link #4054
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They burned the plan to invade the UK. Other than that, yeah.
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Old 2013-01-31, 17:03   Link #4055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
Except by the US while it was still part of the United Kingdom in 1812. That said, yes, our military strength has never been particularly high. You can see that Canada contributed less manpower (less-than-half) than India did in WW2. In WW1, the Canadians mobilized 600,000 to the U.S. ~4 million.

Please keep in mind though that the U.S. army was tiny prior to WW1 as well. The massive size of the population made boosting those numbers very easy though ..
A contribution of 600,000 soldiers, by a nation that barely numbered 8 million at the time. And only approx. 50% of India's contribution, a country which had more than quadruple the population. Recognized as the best (% kills claimed/%total figures) Ace-producing nation in the Commonwealth. Recognized expert in machinegun tactics. 100 Days where 8 CDN Divisions smashed and routed more than 40 German Divisions and spearheading the single largest land-advance in the Entire War (Western theatre).

Contributed almost 500,000 soldiers just two decades later--only this time, pumping out a veritable flood of tanks, artillery, fighters, bombers, trucks, and ships of all sizes. 3rd largest naval power in 1945, best record for U-boot killing and again the best Ace-producing nation in the Commonwealth. Conqueror of Ortona, Breacher of the Gothic Line, Hitler Line, and Liberator of Holland and Denmark.

All this achieved while having volunteer-soldiers comprise >90% for both wars. Canadians not quite militaristic? Canadian Military strength not particularly high? Nah, bro.

Canada was extremely militaristic back then. In some communities, their entire social lives revolved around the militia. One particular gentleman even bankrolled an entire regiment for WWI from his own pocket, to be used by the federal government. (British) Canadians were extremely proud of the Empire and they were hell-bent on doing their part. Just because a nation does not have a large standing army does not mean they can't be militaristic--just like the USA or the UK for that matter.

Canada=Awesome (former) militant power. Embrace it.
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Old 2013-01-31, 17:10   Link #4056
willx
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^ Oh, I love Canada and am very proud of the country's contributions over the course of history, but the specific topic was: "Canada was never a great power.."

That is tough to debate against because we're not talking about relative contribution based on circumstances but aggregate comparative power.
Despite my pride, when I look at all these assembled facts, I do so with cold dead and dispassionate eyes.

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Old 2013-01-31, 17:47   Link #4057
Tak
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I don't know about you guys, but I am going to take a breather and play my RAM-II...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Maybe Chinese fans don't care about that show, so nobody knows about Muv Luv. I can easily see Girls und Panzer being a lot more popular in China.
The Chinese otaku community is actually very very vibrant contrary to popular belief, and Muv-Luv as a franchise itself is popular enough to warrant attention overseas.

But hot-damn, when Macross Frontier was airing... the way Ranka was crapped on by the Chinese community? Oh boy...

- Tak (Oh Kanada... our home and native land...)
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Last edited by Tak; 2013-01-31 at 18:02.
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Old 2013-01-31, 18:48   Link #4058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ice View Post

Canada=Awesome (former) militant power. Embrace it.
AND you had Scotty!

That's right, James Doohan landed on the Canadian beach at Normandy, and got part of one of his fingers shot off by a German machinegun.

No wonder Scotty was never scared of Kirk.
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Old 2013-01-31, 19:25   Link #4059
Ithekro
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The Canadian based team won't be much different than Saunders. Mostly M4 Sherman varients (including Grizzly tanks and Firefly tanks), M3 Stuart light tanks, and some early Churchills. The Rams never saw combat, but are in most ways essentally M4 Shermans (a large turret on a M3 Lee hull in concept)

A Dutch based school would be Rams though. They got some near the end of the war to form their first armored units from what I understand.
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Old 2013-01-31, 21:14   Link #4060
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