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Old 2013-01-31, 06:20   Link #61
Libros
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Originally Posted by noktown View Post
Not bringing back the "Moria weak/strong topic" again,but it never said in the manga that they were rivals,just that Moria was destroyed by Kaidou at one point.
At one point his crew was wiped out by Kaidou. And also, I remember reading that when his crew was shocked when he was getting beaten by luffy one of them said something along the lines of "Isn't our captain the one that was fighting equally with Kaido last(week I guess, I forget the specifics here sorry)"
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Old 2013-01-31, 06:35   Link #62
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Does Law have some type of grudge against Doflamingo? Despite being involved in shady businesses, he appears to care about his members and apparently he was close to Law... Is Law going to end up as a villain while Doflamingo ends up not being as evil as we think or is justifiable what he's doing?
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Old 2013-01-31, 08:41   Link #63
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...I fail to see how Doflamingo caring about his subordinates somehow makes him less evil.
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Old 2013-01-31, 11:15   Link #64
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Originally Posted by Bern-san View Post
Does Law have some type of grudge against Doflamingo? Despite being involved in shady businesses, he appears to care about his members and apparently he was close to Law... Is Law going to end up as a villain while Doflamingo ends up not being as evil as we think or is justifiable what he's doing?
Doflamingo sanctioned experiments on little kids. Way more evil than anything. Arlong cared about his crew too.
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Old 2013-01-31, 11:45   Link #65
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Originally Posted by Libros View Post
At one point his crew was wiped out by Kaidou. And also, I remember reading that when his crew was shocked when he was getting beaten by luffy one of them said something along the lines of "Isn't our captain the one that was fighting equally with Kaido last(week I guess, I forget the specifics here sorry)"
I can't find a reaction like that in the manga,but again I'm not really debating his strength again,he just doesn't look like the character to be on equal footing with an emperor.I mean so far he went down easily in every one of his fights.Even if you get lazy you can't get that bad over the years.And it seems like he doesn't even posses Haki.

Rayleigh is a nice example of that,despite of so many years just drinking and having a blast,he could still stand his ground against an Admiral,especially with such a troublesome ability such as Kizaru's.
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Old 2013-01-31, 14:00   Link #66
Libros
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Originally Posted by noktown View Post
I can't find a reaction like that in the manga,but again I'm not really debating his strength again,he just doesn't look like the character to be on equal footing with an emperor.I mean so far he went down easily in every one of his fights.Even if you get lazy you can't get that bad over the years.And it seems like he doesn't even posses Haki.

Rayleigh is a nice example of that,despite of so many years just drinking and having a blast,he could still stand his ground against an Admiral,especially with such a troublesome ability such as Kizaru's.
Hmm, I guess so. I'll re-read the Thriller bark arc and get back to you if I find it again. Then again, Rayleigh was the first mate of the crew that conquered the grand line so I'm not so sure we can use him as an example of "aging well"(strength-wise). Since let's face it, back in his prime only people at Roger's level could even scratch him, let alone beat him and even if he aged poorly he'd still be around admiral level.As far as I can remember, the only people that seem to have aged as well as Rayleigh are Garp & Sengoku. Maybe Kong too but we haven't seen him fight, much or if at all. Or maybe I'm over-estimating him(Rayleigh).

I really want to see a chapter/episode/movie when we get to see Roger & Rayleigh in their primes fighting the Yonkou of their time. I have sometimes wondered who were the people in the position of Yonkou before Big-mam and Kaido and the like. Since as we've seen, they can be replaced at any point in time(assuming there are people strong enough, brave, ballsy and/or stubborn/smart enough to beat them in existence). So maybe Kaido beat a predecessor and usurped his/her throne, so to speak.

Last edited by Libros; 2013-01-31 at 14:32.
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Old 2013-01-31, 14:42   Link #67
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Originally Posted by Libros View Post
Hmm, I guess so. I'll re-read the Thriller bark arc and get back to you if I find it again. Then again, Rayleigh was the first mate of the crew that conquered the grand line so I'm not so sure we can use him as an example of "aging well"(strength-wise). Since let's face it, back in his prime only people at Roger's level could even scratch him, let alone beat him and even if he aged poorly he'd still be around admiral level.As far as I can remember, the only people that seem to have aged as well as Rayleigh are Garp & Sengoku. Maybe Kong too but we haven't seen him fight, much or if at all. Or maybe I'm over-estimating him(Rayleigh).

I really want to see a chapter/episode/movie when we get to see Roger & Rayleigh in their primes fighting the Yonkou of their time. I have sometimes wondered who were the people in the position of Yonkou before Big-mam and Kaido and the like. Since as we've seen, they can be replaced at any point in time(assuming there are people strong enough, brave, ballsy and/or stubborn/smart enough to beat them in existence). So maybe Kaido beat a predecessor and usurped his/her throne, so to speak.
Well if Whitebeard was Roger's rival and Kaidou was considered the strongest of the 4 emperors,that means Kaidou is supposed to be nearly as strong as Roger if not as strong as him,so assuming they were fighting on equal footing that should mean Moria was on Rayleigh's level at the least.
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Old 2013-01-31, 14:48   Link #68
Libros
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noktown View Post
Well if Whitebeard was Roger's rival and Kaidou was considered the strongest of the 4 emperors,that means Kaidou is supposed to be nearly as strong as Roger if not as strong as him,so assuming they were fighting on equal footing that should mean Moria was on Rayleigh's level at the least.
Here's the quote about him Vs Kaido, take the part about him losing his crew to Kaido with a grain of salt for now, I need to find that part. I probably got it wrong, sorry.
Spoiler for Moria vs Kaido:

Last edited by Libros; 2013-01-31 at 15:10.
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Old 2013-01-31, 17:36   Link #69
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As far as Dofla's decision goes, I'm sort of leaning towards him rejecting Law's demands, myself. However, the problem with that is that (and I'm sure this was mentioned already) he could STILL get in trouble with the marines if Smoker reports to HQ about Vergo. So unless he's well-connected enough with the WG to come up with a contingency plan, he'd be screwed whether he quits the Shichibukai or not. Personally, I'm not really seeing him going to anyone else within the marines to help him since his most trusted man (Vergo) is currently incapacitated, so it has to be someone else within the WG. Maybe he can hatch up some counterattack scheme against Law if he has connections within Cipher Pol or something.....
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Old 2013-02-01, 16:03   Link #70
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Hey did Law know all about the experiments on the kids? Or was he just biding his time for a rescue? I am really interested in Law's motivations now, I think he just replaced Hancock as favorite character that isn't a Strawhat.
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Old 2013-02-01, 17:39   Link #71
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
As far as Dofla's decision goes, I'm sort of leaning towards him rejecting Law's demands, myself. However, the problem with that is that (and I'm sure this was mentioned already) he could STILL get in trouble with the marines if Smoker reports to HQ about Vergo. So unless he's well-connected enough with the WG to come up with a contingency plan, he'd be screwed whether he quits the Shichibukai or not. Personally, I'm not really seeing him going to anyone else within the marines to help him since his most trusted man (Vergo) is currently incapacitated, so it has to be someone else within the WG. Maybe he can hatch up some counterattack scheme against Law if he has connections within Cipher Pol or something.....
Wasn't the person who asked DoFlamingo to kill Moria a high ranking WG employee?

Whatever the case, I do expect DoFlamingo to chart his own course rather than be led or coerced.
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Old 2013-02-01, 18:17   Link #72
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Wasn't the person who asked DoFlamingo to kill Moria a high ranking WG employee?
Seeing this made me reread those chapters concerning that event and I found out in chapter 595 that Doflamingo told that official he would quit the Shichibukai if he was given orders that didn't agree with him. This might mean he's less worried about the marines than he is about Kaidou, and he could accept Law's offer after all.
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Old 2013-02-01, 18:28   Link #73
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well,kaidou is the world's strongest ''creature'' but I think monkey d.dragon is the strongest ''being'' of the world.
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Old 2013-02-01, 20:06   Link #74
marvelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Wasn't the person who asked DoFlamingo to kill Moria a high ranking WG employee?

Yes, that was what I had in mind when making that post. After all, Dofla even mentioned that whoever ordered the hit on Moria had more authority than Sengoku. But I'm wondering if that person (or people) alone can pull enough strings to pull Dofla out of his tight spot? Hence my suggestion that CP agents may be best suited towards thwarting Smoker from reporting to HQ about Vergo's betrayal (and buying Dofla enough time to hatch up a counter-plan against Law).....


Quote:
Originally Posted by bonsobon View Post
Seeing this made me reread those chapters concerning that event and I found out in chapter 595 that Doflamingo told that official he would quit the Shichibukai if he was given orders that didn't agree with him. This might mean he's less worried about the marines than he is about Kaidou, and he could accept Law's offer after all.

Thing is, we gotta remember that the scene you're referring to took place before the timeskip. Needless to say, a LOT can happen in two years' time. So while it may have been easier for Dofla to give up his warlord status back then, chances are that quitting now would deal a huge blow to his current operation (and I'm pretty sure Law knows that, otherwise there wouldn't be much of a point in him making that deal in the first place).


That's exactly the reason why I don't see Dofla complying with any of Law's demands in the first place..... he'd have nothing to gain and everything to lose (for one thing, it's not even guaranteed that Law will return Caesar to him if he went back to being a regular pirate). And more importantly, I doubt his pride would allow him to be humiliated by an upstart young whippersnapper who only recently became a warlord himself......
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Old 2013-02-01, 20:48   Link #75
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Originally Posted by noktown View Post
Not bringing back the "Moria weak/strong topic" again,but it never said in the manga that they were rivals,just that Moria was destroyed by Kaidou at one point.
this. Moria's crew was annihilated by Kaido('s crew?). That seems very one sided. This making them "rivals" would be like saying: "Luffy fought Aokoji once. They are on the same level."
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Old 2013-02-01, 21:03   Link #76
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Well if Whitebeard was Roger's rival and Kaidou was considered the strongest of the 4 emperors,that means Kaidou is supposed to be nearly as strong as Roger if not as strong as him,so assuming they were fighting on equal footing that should mean Moria was on Rayleigh's level at the least.
When was Kaidou considered the strongest of the 4 Emperors?
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Old 2013-02-01, 21:43   Link #77
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Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
this. Moria's crew was annihilated by Kaido('s crew?). That seems very one sided. This making them "rivals" would be like saying: "Luffy fought Aokoji once. They are on the same level."

So I guess you forgot about this then (which, conveniently, was posted earlier this very page (thanks, Libros! )):



Quote:
Originally Posted by Libros View Post
Here's the quote about him Vs Kaido, take the part about him losing his crew to Kaido with a grain of salt for now, I need to find that part. I probably got it wrong, sorry.
Spoiler for Moria vs Kaido:


Even if Moria's old crew were fodder, that doesn't mean the captain himself was (and I doubt he'd have became a shichibukai if he weren't).....
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Old 2013-02-01, 22:47   Link #78
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One can easily tell that Doflamingo isn't used to being grabbed by the balls. He's genuinely pissed and uncomfortable at the thought of having an emperor or admiral on his ass. But after all the hype and build-up he's gotten over the years, I expect he'll have some kind of contingency plan to get himself out of this predicament (otherwise he'll lose some credibility as a villain).
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Old 2013-02-02, 03:09   Link #79
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Law seems to be man with a plan, a strategist might i say.. He makes the rule coz he's Law..

As for as ability goes, if ya're cut by him then it's game over.. Doflamingo hinting that his cut is not absolute with great haki but vergo is someone who got great haki and still cut easily by Law.. Hmm..

I think someone with a super sonic speed might stand a chance against him..
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Old 2013-02-02, 13:45   Link #80
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A little disappointed if Donflamingo is gonna get completely played by Law.

Donflamingo has been portrayed so far as a top tier adversary in command of the largest underground syndicate. A shichibukai unafraid of top marine officials because he responds to "higher" authority. He has his own planted vice-admiral. He controls the underground, going into the best opportunities with years of foresight. He was unafraid of Oars, Crocodile and Joz during the war. Ruthless with his subordinates and seems invincible with a DF power that looks like he can manipulate anyone.

Now he is seen to be completely vulnerable? I don't get it, all the hype that been surrounding him since the Jaya arc it seems odd.

I would like to see Donflamingo come up with some great counter strategy because he doesn't seem like the kind of guy which would be played.

Last edited by golgo13; 2013-02-02 at 13:59. Reason: sp
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