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Old 2013-02-02, 00:34   Link #261
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
Goddamn, you still think the idol industry is like the Yakuza? Hey, they're getting paid well, they have their perks (not everyone gets to be an idol and the selection process is difficult), and yes sometimes they do have lapse of judgment, but this young woman had the balls to apologize in public in this unusual way; she's not Kim Kardashian.
You said it. Being paid well means that they have the desperation to accept such a suggestion in exchange for a chance to stay with AKB48.

Then again, I don't think they are paid well. It is the sponsorships for their daily (idol) needs, and the perks they get from all those business ties the management has cultivated for them. What are a few compacts (1 compact of powder, with periodic touchup through daily usage, can last for close to 1 month) in exchange for a pretty face to bolster the brand of a cosmetic?

P.S I am pretty much an idol chaser myself : being a huge fan of Mizuki Nana, Jay Chou, KISS and a few metal/rock bands. But I am the odd one out because I focus more on music instead of eye candy. Mass girlbands like Afilia Saga East and AKB48 don't interest me much, and I am usually neutral unless there are outrageous antics like this performed that make the entire idol industry look ridiculously shady. Even if the anti-social forces are involved, I believe that they have good business sense not to get involved too much; they are just in it to wash money.
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Last edited by SaintessHeart; 2013-02-02 at 00:45.
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Old 2013-02-02, 02:18   Link #262
Bikerider
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Every time I hear of an AKB48 scandal, my first thought is: "Why are they doing ? They should stop trying to be like SCANDAL. SCANDAL is SCANDAL !! Unless it's Scandal with Patty Smyth, but that's a whole different story. Don't mess with SCANDAL.. and then I think... oh.... Well... at least they're not trying to mess with SCANDAL.
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Old 2013-02-02, 04:07   Link #263
sa547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azuma Denton View Post
@sa547
Do you think a girl, without any influence, will shave her head bald?
Sorry, but i am on SaintessHearts side. I dont believe that she did it on her own.
Yes, maybe no one is forcing her to. But what if someone influence her? No one can tell right now except the staff and herself.
And the video itself is unappropriate.
With a tin-foil, living-in-a-bubble answer, are you implying that it's bullshit just for show? Is it like the WWE where they made everything up for drama? Or coerced by force?

With most people here having limited knowledge of the idol entertainment system (and I think they haven't even set their foot on Japan), fed by misinformation from second-hand sources, sensationalist websites or complete critics of the culture (and sorry, some people wrongly get their ideas about Japan only through anime or manga), I don't know how hard for you to imagine that it's a very complex world demanding a huge cultural leap from a closed Western mentality of black-and-white and an open mind to understand.

Put yourself in her shoes, know how painful it could be and she's crying for real, being caught between the devil and the deep blue sea, for crissakes -- it's hard for her whether she should keep silent and let the assholes do more damage or speak up before they do.

Personally, as someone who grew up in a multi-cultural setting, I am very disgusted by how people misinterpret things at whatever they see without getting the proper facts straight.
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Old 2013-02-02, 04:49   Link #264
SaintessHeart
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Maybe you should work backroom in concerts and listen to what is going on inside. Such opportunities are rare, so you might have to offer to work as a lowly paid porter. And you might want to avoid assuming that people put tinfoil hats on their scalps. Secondly, the media industry is never completely clean. Half a month as a Producer Assistant taugh me that.

Another way is to strike up conversations or make friends with people in the branded cosmetics business, Etude House is a good example. The media is effective at smoking everyone because it is their job to do so.

Then again, here is a proper one from news channels :

AKB48 Star Shaves Head After Scandal

Hiroki Azuma commented. So he is a complete critic too?
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-02-02, 05:39   Link #265
sa547
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Then what ideas would you like to propose? Abolish the entire system?

Trying to impose Western ideals and expectations of the "politically-correct" and "acceptable" onto Japanese society is like cooking Spam over a lightbulb.

(I listen to most forms of music, not just AKB; I embraced them in reaction to the overwhelming saturation of k-pop and Bieber, so you may call me somewhat biased. Good God, you remind me of someone I defriended off Twitter because he sought "musical purity over eye candy".

You mentioned Mizuki? One of her fans is Mayu Watanabe; Another member named Rino Sasshihara organized the largest gathering of idol groups like it was Woodstock.

I like their imperfection. I like to see them grow up as genuine persons than just pretty faces on a magazine.)
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Last edited by sa547; 2013-02-02 at 05:53.
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Old 2013-02-02, 06:33   Link #266
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
Then what ideas would you like to propose? Abolish the entire system?

Trying to impose Western ideals and expectations of the "politically-correct" and "acceptable" onto Japanese society is like cooking Spam over a lightbulb.

(I listen to most forms of music, not just AKB; I embraced them in reaction to the overwhelming saturation of k-pop and Bieber, so you may call me somewhat biased. Good God, you remind me of someone I defriended off Twitter because he sought "musical purity over eye candy".

You mentioned Mizuki? One of her fans is Mayu Watanabe; Another member named Rino Sasshihara organized the largest gathering of idol groups like it was Woodstock.

I like their imperfection. I like to see them grow up as genuine persons than just pretty faces on a magazine.)
You write like an angry fanboy, but I shall reply to you anyway since you replied to mine.

Add a "no humiliation/humiliating act to be performed as PR" in the contract? They are human beings and that act of head shaving is decadent. Those idols are still human beings, and this isn't imperial Japan as much as they have descended from the historical female entertainers without the physical sex option.

Whatever petty action you took on people who don't agree with you, I shall not comment further because that simply shows you don't listen as much as you play. There are people who listen to.music which they can inject themselves into, and subsequently, replicate playing it. These people listen for something called the "flow"; not just tolerating and appreciating whatever mashup iTunes provide.

Unfortunately, AKB48 are nothing more than pretty faces on a magazine. Their songs are plain as those factory-churned stuff we have from US popular billboards playing over my car stereo. I must admit, the girls are cute, but they don't seem to have any unique style other than its unique marketing and sales model.

It is just a cash cow of looks - that is why people categorise, albeit in an extreme way, as porn stars.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-02-02, 06:40   Link #267
sa547
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Nice. You sound holier-than-thou. Also insulting all the while the irony is with your avatar.

Pot. Kettle. Black.
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Last edited by sa547; 2013-02-02 at 06:51.
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Old 2013-02-02, 10:35   Link #268
Utsuro no Hako
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
With most people here having limited knowledge of the idol entertainment system (and I think they haven't even set their foot on Japan), fed by misinformation from second-hand sources, sensationalist websites or complete critics of the culture (and sorry, some people wrongly get their ideas about Japan only through anime or manga), I don't know how hard for you to imagine that it's a very complex world demanding a huge cultural leap from a closed Western mentality of black-and-white and an open mind to understand.

Put yourself in her shoes, know how painful it could be and she's crying for real, being caught between the devil and the deep blue sea, for crissakes -- it's hard for her whether she should keep silent and let the assholes do more damage or speak up before they do.

Personally, as someone who grew up in a multi-cultural setting, I am very disgusted by how people misinterpret things at whatever they see without getting the proper facts straight.
Are you saying that in modern Japanese culture, it's perfectly normal for an adult woman to be ashamed if somebody finds out she's spending the night with her boyfriend? 'Cause that's certainly not the impression I get from mainstream Japanese literature or manga aimed at functional adults.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
Then what ideas would you like to propose? Abolish the entire system?

Trying to impose Western ideals and expectations of the "politically-correct" and "acceptable" onto Japanese society is like cooking Spam over a lightbulb.
I don't think there's anything politically correct about saying, "It's sexist and objectifying for the management to try to control the sexuality of members, especially when that management commodifies that sexuality with gravure photos and videos of the girls prancing around in bikinis or lingerie."

I'll even acknowledge that the rule against romance made sense when the group first started and all the members were young teens -- makes total sense that they wouldn't want a sex scandal involving a 14 year old girl. But the original members are in their 20s now; they're adults, and the management should treat them that way.

Even if we accept that management didn't pressure Minegishi to shave her head, they still demoted her, just like they did Sayaka Akimoto when she was in the same situation. That sends an awful message to girls, both in the band and in the general public, about what happens to women who dare control their own sexuality.
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Old 2013-02-02, 11:06   Link #269
raduccio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
Even if we accept that management didn't pressure Minegishi to shave her head, they still demoted her, just like they did Sayaka Akimoto when she was in the same situation. That sends an awful message to girls, both in the band and in the general public, about what happens to women who dare control their own sexuality.
I don't know a lot about AKB48 but from what I read it probably makes a lot of its money from the most obsessive kind of fans who don't like idols that aren't "pure".
It's messed up but this obsession is also what drives them to spend a lot of money on AKB48 products.
Management wants to protect their profits and maybe redeem that girl in the eyes of her fans.
The only message here is that if you want to make money by pretending to be a "pure idol" you should at least allow the fans the illusion that you are. Otherwise you're gonna have to be good enough to attract mostly normal fans who don't care about what you do in your personal time.
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Old 2013-02-02, 12:29   Link #270
Haak
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I can't help but consider myself a little curious on what her boyfriend thought about all of this. Has there been any comment from him?
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Old 2013-02-02, 14:42   Link #271
sa547
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His agency issued a curt statement that they wish to protect his privacy.

For further illumination on the incident, given the vulture-like nature of mainstream press:
http://bilingual48.blogspot.com.au/2...ompetence.html
http://themhcc.blogspot.jp/2013/02/s...head-gate.html
http://shoujikimedia.com/2013/02/02/...nderstandings/
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Old 2013-02-02, 15:03   Link #272
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
Mainstream press might be pretty sensationalist, but fan blog posts are biased too. Here's a example from one of sites you posted.

Quote:
But for management to somehow influence what is ultimately a personal decision to make is simply inhumane - and I do not believe AKS would stoop that low.
He's a fan. Of course he wouldn't believe it. But ultimately this fan doesn't know that facts, so the following line, which read as fact, kinda shit all over his point:

Quote:
For her to shave off her head in remorse is her own decision, and any reasonable person in management's position would also not have wanted her to do such an act.
But the true is that he doesn't know if it's her own decision, nor if management wanted her to do it or not, and by stating this as if he knows it true shows how biased he is.


This one is almost funny:

Quote:
Why does the entire 48 family have an outright ban on external relationships? Here is my personal take:
One of the core cruxes of idol culture relies on the fans exhibiting an emotional, idealised and vaguely romantic attachment to the image and character of the idol. Anything contrary to this dilutes this "virtualised" relationship - that, of course, includes dating. But on the other extreme, this is not an endorsement of delusion
Lol, of course it's an endorsement. Where does this fan think those akb dating games comes from? Of course management know about the fans' delusion and not only they endorse this, they foster these fantasys as it means more income. Damn, how biased can you get?
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Old 2013-02-02, 15:18   Link #273
sa547
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True, they are fans but these are level-headed fans (as opposed to foaming-to-the-mouth extremists or purists) because they know the terrain better than some journalist who grabs the nearest man and ask questions or pick up references that aren't well-written or based on hearsay (TBH there are only a handful of academic dissertations that attempt to study the idol system in closer detail, and not all of them paint a balanced picture).

If you think it's biased, who else are you going to believe?

(It's sad and funny in that some people who watch 0048 say that they aren't interested in taking a peek at the real group, although many situations in the anime were based from or inspired by real events.)
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Old 2013-02-02, 15:23   Link #274
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
True, they are fans but these are level-headed fans (as opposed to foaming-to-the-mouth extremists or purists) because they know the terrain better than some journalist who grabs the nearest man and ask questions or pick up references that aren't well-written or based on hearsay (TBH there are only a handful of academic dissertations that attempt to study the idol system in closer detail, and not all of them paint a balanced picture).

If you think it's biased, who else are you going to believe?
They are biased, and as for your question, I won't believe anyone. I'm fine with my own personal take on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
(It's sad and funny in that some people who watch 0048 say that they aren't interested in taking a peek at the real group, although many situations in the anime were based from or inspired by real events.)
Personally, I have taken some time to know the real life group better. I have watched documentaries and listened to their music a bit. But ultimately, the anime is the anime and real life is real life. For instance, if Yuuka was a real idol she would have been expelled or at least punished for having this quasi-boyfriend of hers!
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Old 2013-02-02, 20:23   Link #275
sa547
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I've yet to hear a well-known non-fan comment about the incident with a balanced perspective, but frankly everyone has a bias.

Patrick Galbraith also had a book, Idols and Celebrity in Japanese Media Culture, which is about as close as academic as you could get, but it's a mixed bag; however, it's probably the only one on idols and that's contemporary as several authors explain in detail how the whole business works.
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Old 2013-02-03, 03:15   Link #276
KiraYamatoFan
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I had to step in since I already did in another thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azuma Denton View Post
Guess the AKB management has taken it too far.
Shaving a girl head as a punishment is too much.
This. It ain't Minegishi's fault if she found herself a man while the other girls don't know how to find their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
With most people here having limited knowledge of the idol entertainment system (and I think they haven't even set their foot on Japan), fed by misinformation from second-hand sources, sensationalist websites or complete critics of the culture (and sorry, some people wrongly get their ideas about Japan only through anime or manga), I don't know how hard for you to imagine that it's a very complex world demanding a huge cultural leap from a closed Western mentality of black-and-white and an open mind to understand.
I have Asian roots of my own, dude, and even I find this extremely degrading for a woman to do, whether it's forced or strongly suggested. Culture or not, going batshit crazy like this because the girl found herself a man while others couldn't... it's just bloody ridiculous. Hell, we are in the 21st Century and yet this was almost as bad as anything seen in the hardcore Muslim Middle-East.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
I don't think there's anything politically correct about saying, "It's sexist and objectifying for the management to try to control the sexuality of members, especially when that management commodifies that sexuality with gravure photos and videos of the girls prancing around in bikinis or lingerie."

I'll even acknowledge that the rule against romance made sense when the group first started and all the members were young teens -- makes total sense that they wouldn't want a sex scandal involving a 14 year old girl. But the original members are in their 20s now; they're adults, and the management should treat them that way.
Exactly my thoughts. We are talking about the peak of hypocrisy here... what the hell is that? Looks to me that it's OK to keep that "image" so those fans, mostly lonely men, can keep on jerking off all day long instead of going out there finding themselves girls of their own. Meanwhile, idols have no right of living their lives and find partners of their own, not even when they reach legal age. We have something really wrong going on here.

I'd love to see one idol, male or female, calling out those fake or so-called fans someday by what Oasis wrote in one of their songs.

We put this festival on you bastards, with a lotta love.
We worked one year for you pigs
And you want to break our walls down?
And you want to destroy us?
Well you go to hell!

Seriously, there's no point for any artist to satisfy only a bunch of wankers. I'm just so pissed off at this whole thing.

Last edited by KiraYamatoFan; 2013-02-03 at 04:39.
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Old 2013-02-03, 04:10   Link #277
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Whatever petty action you took on people who don't agree with you, I shall not comment further because that simply shows you don't listen as much as you play. There are people who listen to.music which they can inject themselves into, and subsequently, replicate playing it. These people listen for something called the "flow"; not just tolerating and appreciating whatever mashup iTunes provide.

Unfortunately, AKB48 are nothing more than pretty faces on a magazine. Their songs are plain as those factory-churned stuff we have from US popular billboards playing over my car stereo. I must admit, the girls are cute, but they don't seem to have any unique style other than its unique marketing and sales model.

It is just a cash cow of looks - that is why people categorise, albeit in an extreme way, as porn stars.
You...of all people, should know a music or a song is more than technical precision or even the auditory flow of which you speak.

You should know it's very much a mouthpiece of the singer singing it...an expression of self. Even if the songs are mass produced, the lyrics pre-made, the singer singing still has his or her own personality behind it.

To deny that is.....Not listening at all.

Listen with your heart more deeply is all I would say since I really, really don't want to argue with you (in the sense of having flame war with you of all people)



Also no...I'm not an AKB fan. I know they have not as much technical skill as many singers and their music really isn't my kind of tastes but I still don't deny them their......personality if you will.
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Old 2013-02-03, 04:36   Link #278
sa547
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Man, there's a difference between Oasis and idols; Gallagher is a controversial individualist and libertarian who has a sharp tongue for anything, thus he made many enemies with his assertions, and in Japanese society he's too much of a radical; the idea of idols in a conservative setting suddenly lambasting their audience would only destroy them.

Again, you can't expect the Japanese entertainment industry -- and by extension, the animation industry -- to conform to the Hollywood/Disney model overnight, and that industry is very insular, traditionalist and stubborn to change (save for a few avant-garde film directors).

Bottom line -- if you don't know idols, ask the fans with an open mind rather than to rely on preconceived notions of Japanese culture coming from second-hand sources and idealized fiction. And places like Shitkaku Complex.
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Old 2013-02-03, 04:47   Link #279
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I totally forgot that we had a music section in this site so I'll just leave this post here: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=9525
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Old 2013-02-03, 04:52   Link #280
sa547
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Originally Posted by velderia View Post
I totally forgot that we had a music section in this site so I'll just leave this post here: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=9525
You mean most of those derailing posts have to be moved here.
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