Little Busters - Game Discussion (Little Busters & Ecstasy!)

[Randrak42]

Komari is anything but flat...Mio would fit better if you're looking for a flat chested group.

[Zankoku12]

Uhhuh Komari belong to the noisy girl side of the group.
Ugh... you made me realize that Mio only lost to Kud in the flat chest category......

Kurugaya(90) > Saya=Komari(83) > Haruka(81) > Kanata(80) > Sasami(78) > Rin(77) > Mio(75) > Kud(69)

I always thought Mio has it bigger than Rin...

[Leo_Otaku]

What would be super boss is if Key would make a spin off game for Kyousuke. With him as a male lead, considering how awesome and popular he is in the polls

REFRAIN SPOILERS: Details of events in Refrain and opinions (disappointed parts) very very spoiler heavy
Any feedback welcomed Sorry for my terrible grammar/spelling no excuse...but just excuse it anyway...

Spoiler for Refrain:

I was quite disappointed with the utter lack of Riki and Rin and the rest on the bus and the aftermath. It was like a giant chunk of the story was missing. I knew this ending for years before playing (actually being spoiled in 2007). So my mind had parts I was anticipating, or rather made in my mind of what was to be expected (which when I think about seem normal concerns). It was like they skipped over a large scene before the accident and as the accident was happening. I have been in a few car accidents and have seen horrors of what has happened in these kind of accidents( recently http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...sh-oregon.html ). I was hoping we would have some scenes of them on the bus with Riki and Rin chatting with the others (Little Buster group) and have specific moments happen before the bus accident, like moments together. It would be a prelude of some kind to when they recall what happened.

The next issue was when the crash happens. I would think there would have been some fatalities in the class, just by being crushed from the sheer weight of the bus dropping from the cliff (like the accident from above). This would make a bit more logical sense, than just an explosion. Rin and Riki getting out the wreck could have been handled much better than just being sore and not being able to move, like weren't Masato and Kengo shielding them? wouldn't they have to push away their bodies? You would have thought they would have looked for the others and had some concern perhaps? Also through this rescuing it was like the general Little Busters main girl cast are completely ignored. Even if they weren't the main point, it was like they weren't even in the accident. No panic or concern for them at all.

I really, really, really hope the anime will at least have them shown riding the bus before they crash and a better aftermath of the crash with concern for the others. This scene lost a huge amount of impact for me, with the bus scene. In any accident with that many people you would have people screaming, crying begging for help, bloodied bodies and so on and so forth. It wasn't handled well in that respect at all. I did however like the flashbacks of Kyousuke's pain in those parts in his POV, where he crawled away to help them out and used his body to block the gas tank. That was really had an impact on me, but i expected more from Riki's/Rin's POV of the bus crash. Any thoughts?

[Kudryavka]

@Leo_Otaku

Spoiler for huge game spoiler:

I get you. In a twisted way, it's an unlikely happy ending, where everyone on the bus can be saved (though they all have injuries, iirc Haruka got a broken leg or arm and Kyousuke was in the hospital for a while). And Kyousuke's pain during the accident was handled really well, I still cringe at the description and sound of him bringing his hand down on the shard of glass as a "world reset" button.

Now that you mention those things about car accidents, the bus scene does seem like it could be improved... not to say it's bad, though. It had a lot of emotional impact on me though, especially when Riki hits his head and ends up in the hospital for head trauma. That last picture of Riki staring half dead into nothingness in his hospital bed and Rin looking completely devastated next to him was the strongest scene to make up for the lack of buildup before the accident imo.

I think that the girls were just forgotten in the heat of the moment. Riki and Rin only have a few minutes to act, and the first time their panic and fear and all of the negative emotions inside of them don't really let them make good decisions and make them waste their time (or worse die from the explosion). iirc when Riki realizes what happened his heart starts to beat fast and he starts to panic and hyperventilate. I can't remember what Rin did, but it wasn't any helpful because she doesn't calm down until Riki tells her to. They can only change their classmates' fate in the ending when Riki finally realizes that he has to calm down and keep his sleeping disorder at bay, and think things through if he wants to save anyone else. That as well as the many stacatto player choices at that point really amp up the tension there.

For some reason I feel that bloodied bodies and dying screams for help might have made the scene... too good. It's already very tense and devastating. I must admit that I was relieved that I didn't have to see the faces of any people in the bus when I choose to run away and leave them, especially not the faces of the Little Busters. Well except Kyousuke, but after knowing how much he put into being able to let at least Riki and Rin escape, I couldn't bring myself to imagine not running away from him.

But for the anime, since they won't be able to exactly emulate the feel you get when making rapid, life or death, almost blind choices in the final ending, I do hope that they add some buildup to the accident as compensation (though I trust they'll do a great job in showing how terrible the scene is).

About how Riki goes back in time to save everyone... was this ever explained in EX, particularly Saya's route? That re-entering the imaginary world and exiting again will put you back at the same spot every time, ignoring real world time flow?

[Klashikari]

You know, after reading Haruka's route once again to refresh my memory, some things are still quite... puzzling to say the least:

Spoiler for Just in case for those who have yet finished Haruka's route:

-There are 2 bad ends. The second one is quite logical: Obviously, at some point, Haruka's obsession over finding who is the "good child" will drive her insane after coming this far due to Riki being there but... what about the first bad ending flag?
This one is triggered when Riki found out Haruka is in the same class than Kanata (and I still don't see the big deal of this), and if Haruka learns that, you got a very quick bad ending as result, without much indication of the aftermath.

-I don't doubt Kanata's intentions, but I still have a lot of hard time to figure her actual train of thought.
She certainly stated that she is chasing Haruka out of the school, so that she won't "break". The problem is that such objective was obviously present even before Riki is in relationship with Haruka, and things went south "because" of Riki.
Now my problem is: what actually makes Haruka break then? I mean sure she is certainly under so much pressure due to her childhood with the Saigusa and Futaki than she had to let out some steam and sabotage Kanata on daily basis but that's far it goes.
Instead, it would rather be necessary for her to either 1) have a new place to find (granted by Riki in her route) 2) or have the family members apologizing (unlikely, but the real solution still).
So Kanata's position is a bit... difficult to grasp: she obviously care a lot for Haruka and still has her own shit to deal with (even moreso in her own route), but her facade doesn't exactly contribute directly to Haruka's welfare. I always thought Kanata was under the Saigusa's family observation hence why she has to keep a hardass stance, but it is revealed it is rather something she did even reluctantly for Haruka's sake, which still puzzle me a lot

-I know it doesn't matter much in the end, but who was the culprit behind the graffiti and flyers? Kyousuke's doing?

and finally, due to Refrain

Spoiler for Refrain knowledge based question:

-To what extent can we believe the facts of this arc in reality?
The problem I have with Haruka's route is that... well it obviously had to occur beforehand in order to be recreated in the dream world. However, I still don't think it is really what happened. I mean it is implied Kanata was also in the bus, so unless the bus had several class (huh?) so it wouldn't make sense for Haruka to barge in Riki's classroom on daily basis if she had to confront Kanata as well.

[Randrak42]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

You know, after reading Haruka's route once again to refresh my memory, some things are still quite... puzzling to say the least:

Spoiler for Just in case for those who have yet finished Haruka's route:

-There are 2 bad ends. The second one is quite logical: Obviously, at some point, Haruka's obsession over finding who is the "good child" will drive her insane after coming this far due to Riki being there but... what about the first bad ending flag?
This one is triggered when Riki found out Haruka is in the same class than Kanata (and I still don't see the big deal of this), and if Haruka learns that, you got a very quick bad ending as result, without much indication of the aftermath.

Spoiler for Haruka's Route:

It's not properly explained and I myself don't see it as a good excuse for a bad ending. But if I were to take a guess it's basically related to the fact that by finding out about her class and how she is treated there, she believed Riki and the others would start treating her differently so she nips it in the bud before it happens.
Again, not sure as this is the only explanation I could come up with.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Spoiler for Just in case for those who have yet finished Haruka's route:

-I don't doubt Kanata's intentions, but I still have a lot of hard time to figure her actual train of thought.
She certainly stated that she is chasing Haruka out of the school, so that she won't "break". The problem is that such objective was obviously present even before Riki is in relationship with Haruka, and things went south "because" of Riki.
Now my problem is: what actually makes Haruka break then? I mean sure she is certainly under so much pressure due to her childhood with the Saigusa and Futaki than she had to let out some steam and sabotage Kanata on daily basis but that's far it goes.
Instead, it would rather be necessary for her to either 1) have a new place to find (granted by Riki in her route) 2) or have the family members apologizing (unlikely, but the real solution still).
So Kanata's position is a bit... difficult to grasp: she obviously care a lot for Haruka and still has her own shit to deal with (even moreso in her own route), but her facade doesn't exactly contribute directly to Haruka's welfare. I always thought Kanata was under the Saigusa's family observation hence why she has to keep a hardass stance, but it is revealed it is rather something she did even reluctantly for Haruka's sake, which still puzzle me a lot

Spoiler for Haruka's Route:

While I to don't know exactly how Haruka would brake...I attribute Kanata's "unnecessary" behavior to a simple mistake on her part. Perhaps in her own way she believed it would have the opposite effect of ultimately being helpful to Haruka rather than making things worse. She still human, she still makes mistakes and to me, this would actually make the character even better and more human, adding flaws to her character that honestly...any person could have.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Spoiler for Just in case for those who have yet finished Haruka's route:

-I know it doesn't matter much in the end, but who was the culprit behind the graffiti and flyers? Kyousuke's doing?

Spoiler for Haruka's Route:

I always thought it was Kanata that did it as she reached a breaking point or perhaps one of the student council people with a grudge...but the Kyousuke theory isn't bad considering it wouldn't be the first and only time he helped out during a route.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Spoiler for Just in case for those who have yet finished Haruka's route:

and finally, due to Refrain

Spoiler for Refrain knowledge based question:

-To what extent can we believe the facts of this arc in reality?
The problem I have with Haruka's route is that... well it obviously had to occur beforehand in order to be recreated in the dream world. However, I still don't think it is really what happened. I mean it is implied Kanata was also in the bus, so unless the bus had several class (huh?) so it wouldn't make sense for Haruka to barge in Riki's classroom on daily basis if she had to confront Kanata as well.

Spoiler for Haruka's Route:

We've talked about this before...but my theory is that the Dream World has the ability to copy the real world, even things that are beyond the knowledge of those that created it. Thus Kanata would be a mere copy of her real world self (who was not on the buss) but still retain the knowledge and personality of her real self.

[Zankoku12]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Spoiler for Just in case for those who have yet finished Haruka's route:

So Kanata's position is a bit... difficult to grasp: she obviously care a lot for Haruka and still has her own shit to deal with (even moreso in her own route), but her facade doesn't exactly contribute directly to Haruka's welfare. I always thought Kanata was under the Saigusa's family observation hence why she has to keep a hardass stance, but it is revealed it is rather something she did even reluctantly for Haruka's sake, which still puzzle me a lot

I thought Kanata's hardass facade was also explained in her route.

Spoiler for Spoiler:

I can't read that scene very well so I don't how accurate this is but apparently the twin used to get along well with Kanata comforted and promised Haruka about something after Haruka got beaten up until Haruka misunderstood Kanata (I think it's because the egg dish thingy?) for lying and cheating to her,Haruka thought Kanata have been faking her kindness in order to win their little contest while secretly laugh at her in the dark etc .
Kanata want to explained but she couldn't so she began to act exactly like what her sister believe her to be thus the start of Kanata's hardass facade.(And again, I can't help but feel like Haruka brought all that to her self )

Well,I could be wrong though.It'd be better if we wait till they release the eng patch for EX.

[Klashikari]

Ahhh... I never read LB in english until now, hence why when I was reading Haruka, I was like "wait, where are the flashback scenes?!", forgotting those came from EX

That said, I'm pretty sure Kanata isn't the type of character who would try things for the hell of it, so a bit like Kyousuke who went hardcore in Rin2, I'm pretty sure she had a reasoning for her attitude, although it sort of backfired. I guess I should read again her route. Sure has been a long time.
That said, she is definitely not the one behind the flyers/graffiti, considering she went postal when Riki was about to see them. So an external factor, be it a commitee member or Kyousuke himself.

[Randrak42]

People that can read Japanese sicken me...





...because it makes me jealous >_>

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by Randrak42

People that can read Japanese sicken me...





...because it makes me jealous >_>

But it's okay, the rest of us study until we can do that too. ^-^ People who have learned Japanese to fluency inspire me.

がんばりましょう

[animefan36]

Hey guys, just started recently watching the visual novel and saw pretty much all the routes and got to say that Ive sincerely enjoyed the series.
For me Kurugaya was my favorite heroine, I was was really teared up from both endings since they were both sad and happy.

[Klashikari]

I didn't read Kanata's route a second time, but after watching Ep17, a certain scene in Haruka's route actually is even more meaningful in that regard:

Spoiler for Haruka's route:

Haruka's revelations in the anime made me think something was missing and I remembered how "crazed" Haruka looked in the game (however bad Hinoue can be with proportions, expressions are usually accurate with her).
From there, I realized that Kanata's comment that Haruka would break at some point is indeed true: without a catalyst, Haruka would be unable to find a scapegoat for her resentment and frustration, to the point she would definitely conclude she is indeed a child that no one would have wished, precisely because "no one is at fault, therefore, her own birth is the issue".

As such, the moment Haruka pressed her hatred towards Kanata (instead towards the Saigusa and Futaki), the latter was basically stuck between a rock and a hard place: 1) she has to maintain the current situation, pressed by her own family that doesn't want to have any murderer offspring 2) being Haruka's ally will not only be spelled as pain for her, but also render Haruka's position as "no longer the victim".
With such equation, there is no way for Kanata to help directly Haruka from her own position because Kanata is exactly on the "good side of the fence" even if Haruka doesn't know the actual harshness for being the "chosen" twin.

As result, Kanata has to act as the bad guy, in order to "please" both her family and Haruka at the same time. Without such pretense, Haruka would lose the only way to vent her anger, which would make her crumble sooner or later. Assuming Kanata tries reasoning Haruka there, it would not work because 1) Kanata has "no reason" to lecture Haruka, because the former was chosen, therefore she is de facto "not understanding Haruka's pain" 2) even if Haruka believes her, it would just be even more tragic for the latter.

This explains why Kanata had resolved herself to play the bully, which also explains her "cryptic" quotes about happiness/unhappiness balance, and how people feel they are the "most unhappy" compared to others.

With such reasoning, it becomes apparent that Kanata has basically "no choice" to speak of. And because of the circumstances, she can't let Haruka know her own true feelings regarding the matter.
This surely explains why Kanata's route plays way differently, as it branches you with a "what if the twins were still caring for each other" scenario.

[Kudryavka]

Spoiler for who put up the flyers? an educated guess:

I don't think Kyousuke put up the flyers about Haruka's dad. That would mean that he lied to Riki when he said he didn't know who did it, and then why would heoffer to help Riki take them down instead of just letting Riki clean them up himself or ask Kyousuke?

That said, the only ones left are Kanata, the disciplinary committee, and those girls doing the fortune telling. The girls did not know the details, but they knew that Haruka had something to hide about her father. Unlikely that they would have done it, but possible I guess.

The way the chain of events unfolds, we are supposed to assume Kanata did it. But then I wonder why she would do it if it meant everyone getting that much closer to the truth about her as well? Or maybe she isn't afraid of her truth (well, the facade truth anyway)?

The committee is who I'd like to blame. But then, how did they find out? It couldn't have been that hard to Google "Saigusa" and find some dirt, since the story was front page news. They probably didn't even care or know if he was Haruka's dad, they just printed some incriminatory libel and drew red circles around the last names to make it seem that way. This all as a way to get back at her for what she did in the meeting, she did whoop some ass there.

Playing further, when Riki asks Kanata if she did it, she doesn't directly respond, but gets mad at Haruka for telling everyone that they are twins (in retaliation because she thinks Kanata did the flyer deed?), then says that she wants to run Haruka out of the school and, because of that, openly admits to being Riki's definition of a bully. That would have been a really great time to say that she didn't do it if she really didn't do the flyer deed, because she had absolutely nothing to lose by telling Riki then and would only gain (since she probably knows he knows the whole story by now, since he's so close to Haruka at that point). That scene makes me believe firmly that either Kanata posted the flyers, or knew about it and just didn't stop it (which would mean it was probably the disciplinary committee who actually posted the flyers, but she'd be just as guilty because she knew the outcome).

But it is clear that the Saigusa family was ultimately behind the flyers. They either forced Kanata to do it, or they got a pawn of theirs to do it.

[Digi-Dragon]

I'm curious... besides Kud's, I heard that Rin's route is different/expanded in EX, and I'm only playing the original. In what ways is it different? Completely different content, different writing, or something else?

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Kudryavka

Spoiler for who put up the flyers? an educated guess:

I don't think Kyousuke put up the flyers about Haruka's dad. That would mean that he lied to Riki when he said he didn't know who did it, and then why would heoffer to help Riki take them down instead of just letting Riki clean them up himself or ask Kyousuke?

That said, the only ones left are Kanata, the disciplinary committee, and those girls doing the fortune telling. The girls did not know the details, but they knew that Haruka had something to hide about her father. Unlikely that they would have done it, but possible I guess.

The way the chain of events unfolds, we are supposed to assume Kanata did it. But then I wonder why she would do it if it meant everyone getting that much closer to the truth about her as well? Or maybe she isn't afraid of her truth (well, the facade truth anyway)?

The committee is who I'd like to blame. But then, how did they find out? It couldn't have been that hard to Google "Saigusa" and find some dirt, since the story was front page news. They probably didn't even care or know if he was Haruka's dad, they just printed some incriminatory libel and drew red circles around the last names to make it seem that way. This all as a way to get back at her for what she did in the meeting, she did whoop some ass there.

Playing further, when Riki asks Kanata if she did it, she doesn't directly respond, but gets mad at Haruka for telling everyone that they are twins (in retaliation because she thinks Kanata did the flyer deed?), then says that she wants to run Haruka out of the school and, because of that, openly admits to being Riki's definition of a bully. That would have been a really great time to say that she didn't do it if she really didn't do the flyer deed, because she had absolutely nothing to lose by telling Riki then and would only gain (since she probably knows he knows the whole story by now, since he's so close to Haruka at that point). That scene makes me believe firmly that either Kanata posted the flyers, or knew about it and just didn't stop it (which would mean it was probably the disciplinary committee who actually posted the flyers, but she'd be just as guilty because she knew the outcome).

But it is clear that the Saigusa family was ultimately behind the flyers. They either forced Kanata to do it, or they got a pawn of theirs to do it.

Spoiler for Haruka's route:

Hints already indicate clearly it isn't Kanata: she was trying to hide and graffiti when Riki and Haruka were loatering around, and her flipping reaction was clearly an indication she wasn't trying to hide a mischief, but rather not want them to see that, period.
Also, you also have some conflicted response from Kanata at this point.

Kyousuke never really had the qualms to lie if it was part of his scheme. Although that theory is certainly not what I believe in the most, it is possible either.

That said, it is most likely one of the spies from the Futaki/Saigusa, considering BOTH were observed (even more confirmed in Kanata's route).

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Spoiler for Haruka's route:

Hints already indicate clearly it isn't Kanata: she was trying to hide and graffiti when Riki and Haruka were loatering around, and her flipping reaction was clearly an indication she wasn't trying to hide a mischief, but rather not want them to see that, period.
Also, you also have some conflicted response from Kanata at this point.

Kyousuke never really had the qualms to lie if it was part of his scheme. Although that theory is certainly not what I believe in the most, it is possible either.

That said, it is most likely one of the spies from the Futaki/Saigusa, considering BOTH were observed (even more confirmed in Kanata's route).

I was thinking about the graffiti, but I didn't ever realize what it said.

Spoiler for more:

It definitely wasn't Kanata, she wouldn't willingly do that and give her peers any leads onto her true backstory. But I still feel that she knew, which in no way means she is responsible. That would also explain why she got so jumpy at the blackboard graffiti, since iirc she started yelling as soon as she saw them playing on the board? Like, she yelled before she could even read it properly, else I think we would get a chance to read it too.

But yeah, despite wanting to chase Haruka away for her own good, Kanata did not cook up a plan to ruin her socially by spreading those flyers, and actually did not want it to happen.

I know I am contradicting some of what I said earlier, I'm working through the game again slowly.

[Randrak42]

Spoiler for Haruka Route:

To be fair...Kyousuke was always about ready to do ANYTHING in order to strengthen Riki and Rin. Just look at what he did to Kengo and Masato, two of his closest and dearest friends, you think he wouldn't do something of this level to Haruka in order to further the development between her and Riki?

[Kudryavka]

How can I play through Refrain again if I already did or said "I know the secret of the world" at the very beginning? Is it possible? Do I just complete Rin 2 again? Or do all of the girls again?

[Randrak42]

Just pick start, it gives you the option of playing a new game or just refrain.

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by Randrak42

Just pick start, it gives you the option of playing a new game or just refrain.

Thank you, I has started a new game and chose "No" this time because I wanted to see some extra scenes... I will clear my saves and do that after I see all the extra scenes (the ones you can't see after completing Refrain for some reason).