AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Shin Sekai Yori

Notices

View Poll Results: Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 18 Rating
Perfect 10 24 38.71%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 23 37.10%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 9 14.52%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 6.45%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.61%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.61%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-02-02, 23:40   Link #41
Hitenma
Behold! We are the Nine!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sendai, Japan
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I'd like to see this too. To be honest at this point I don't feel anything for these characters. Well, I feel a bit for Saki and the loss of her friends. But as for the town and most of the PKers... I really want them all dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Wing View Post
As strange as this sounds I kind of agree.

While it would be a truly sad turn of events. I believe a huge die off is what's needed to purge a lot of the terrible things wrong with this society. Once everything is over it would give humanity a chance to start fresh. Maybe with Saki leading them a lot of positive changes can start.
I have to disagree.
You think a society is wrong so you wish that they will be massacred?
You believe that a large number of people need to die in order to a positive change can happen?
Sorry but I happen to know some guys in our history having the same thoughts.
Hitenma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 01:03   Link #42
Rosalena
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: United States
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitenma View Post
I have to disagree.
You think a society is wrong so you wish that they will be massacred?
You believe that a large number of people need to die in order to a positive change can happen?
Sorry but I happen to know some guys in our history having the same thoughts.
There's really no need to react so seriously to what are obviously facetious remarks. It's only an anime. Kazu-kun and Dark Wing are allowed to voice their thoughts even if you don't agree with them.

I, however, am inclined to agree with them to a certain extent. I think the show is setting up for a massive revolution. Whether this will be an overhaul of how their world is actually run or just a change in how they think remains to be seen, but I don't imagine that either will happen without loss of life.
__________________

(Summer 2014 - Currently Watching)
Sailor Moon Crystal | Tokyo Ghoul | Aldnoah.Zero
Zankyou no Terror | Glasslip | Hanayamata
Rosalena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 01:20   Link #43
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 26
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
I dislike massacre actually.. Saki is still young (ok 24), but since Tomiko if I'm not mistaking, sees Saki with good potential,I think being an influential person is a first step to start change. I don't think sacrificing a lot of people is necessary..

Putting ourselves on the shoes of those to be massacre, will make up think the opposite.

Gradual change is still the best and acceptable option if we are still human...
NoemiChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 03:34   Link #44
Izayoi
I LOVE FLAN_CHAN
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Flan-chan
Age: 12
Send a message via MSN to Izayoi
Oh, here it comes. The queerats have a Cantus user. In addition, the queerats themselves are significantly powerful too. I only wonder why there are so little precautions taken towards queerats in case of a rebellion. Arrogance hurts. As strong as the humans claim themselves to be, they are pretty fragile and toothless creatures. In fact, they can't even moderate themselves. Ever since the introduction from the living archive, the development was already quite obvious. Either the humans wipe themselves out out the queerats will. I just wonder how Saki will end up after this. Hopefully something along the lines of both species being close to extermination and Saki and a small crew manages to survive. This is a excellent episode with nice build up to the next one.
__________________
I love Flandre Scarlet

Last edited by Izayoi; 2013-02-03 at 03:45.
Izayoi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 03:47   Link #45
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitenma View Post
I have to disagree.
You think a society is wrong so you wish that they will be massacred?
You believe that a large number of people need to die in order to a positive change can happen?
Sorry but I happen to know some guys in our history having the same thoughts.
I don't particularly want a massacre here, and nor do I think that a large number of people need to die in order for positive change to happen.

That being said, the human society in SSY is far from innocent here. And, in the current war with Yakomaru's group, the humans are the aggressors. Remember, Tomiko sent out the order to have Yakomaru's group completely wiped out before Yakomaru's group attempted any attacks on the humans. That's rather extreme, and reminds me of those same "some guys in our history" that you're probably thinking of.

Really, Yakomaru's group is now just defending itself. It's kill or be killed now, the humans have given the Queerats no other choice.


The way the humans of this world treat and think of the Queerats is quite disturbing. It's nothing short of monstrous, really. The Queerats are a sentient race, and their leaders are even able to communicate clearly with humans. And the humans treat them like cattle, if not worst than cattle.

In fact, my view on Tomiko has changed considerably with this episode. For all her age and supposed wisdom, that lady has one hell of a mean streak. Her plans for Yakomaru are about as extreme as it gets.


In any event, this was a pretty exciting and engaging episode. I don't think I'd want to be Yakomaru right now... Tomiko has some nasty plans for him, and I don't know what Yakomaru can possibly do to take out the Masked Marvel, SuperCantusMan. That dude is powerful. Very impressive showing on his part here. Some people here are faulting humans for being too arrogant in their assessment of the threat posed by the Queerats, but with SuperCantusMan fighting for them, can you really blame them?

The ending bit with Maria didn't bother me as much as it did some, but it did seem a bit superfluous to me. It just wasn't long enough for me to care much about it either way.

My one issue with this episode (and with SSY in general since the latest time-skip) is that this is all feeling like a Greek Tragedy playing out in Super-Slo Mo. I find myself getting a bit numb to it all after awhile, and so I hope the pace picks up while I still care about some of these characters.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 03:55   Link #46
roon
_(:q 」∠)_ _(ФωФ*」∠)_
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Mamoru who? Poor kid. All this Maria->Saki push pretty much undermines the reasons why Maria went with him in the first place. (And they didn't even mention that it was him who drew that picture of Saki and Maria! )
Mamoru is definitely on par with Reiko for me since all I know is his role in the anime. The last bit that was like a pandery idol interview wasn't entirely unwelcome (I realise I like Maria more than I should), but holy crap was that poorly placed. I, too, expected the ending to kick in after Tomiko declares war on Squealer, but then... I suppose they want to milk any more sadness while dropping hints unnecessarily?

Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
With Asahina able to manipulate her own telomeres (talk about concentration), it certainly opens up some exciting possibilities (which will probably not be explored) as to what an ingenious person with "power" could do in the realm of human genetics. I could easily see many of the practical limitations on why two women can't procreate being...surpassable with the right type of psyche and willpower.
This is part of why I'm a little "..." at the last bit with Maria. Just how in the world can you have powers like theirs and not think to just try to find a way to have a child using it?! I know that's not the point of the scene, but my suspension of belief momentarily paused at how /off/ that sounded to me. But I guess their society could shun that idea...

In other news, woohoo Kiroumaru! Go and get your revenge!

Ah, right, double headlights masked man was way more ikemen than I expected.
roon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:02   Link #47
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 26
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post

Really, Yakomaru's group is now just defending itself. It's kill or be killed now, the humans have given the Queerats no other choice.
The Querrats should just assassinate Yakomaru and seek for diplomacy.... thats another choice... He's the root of the revolution anyway....
NoemiChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:50   Link #48
kuromitsu
我、勝てり!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by roon View Post
Mamoru is definitely on par with Reiko for me since all I know is his role in the anime. The last bit that was like a pandery idol interview wasn't entirely unwelcome (I realise I like Maria more than I should), but holy crap was that poorly placed. I, too, expected the ending to kick in after Tomiko declares war on Squealer, but then... I suppose they want to milk any more sadness while dropping hints unnecessarily?
Maybe... or maybe not. I mean, I'm sure they want to milk Maria as long as they can (...uh, this didn't come out right ), but after this episode I have a sneaking suspicion what they might be doing and I hope I'm not right because I wouldn't be happy about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roon View Post
This is part of why I'm a little "..." at the last bit with Maria. Just how in the world can you have powers like theirs and not think to just try to find a way to have a child using it?! I know that's not the point of the scene, but my suspension of belief momentarily paused at how /off/ that sounded to me. But I guess their society could shun that idea...
This has come up before ("why do they need bakenezumi if they have power" "they could control the weather and everything") and the thing is, they don't have that kind of power. Or rather, they have the power but only a very select few are able to use it on this level. In school Saki was struggling with repairing a broken bottle while Satoru got congratulated on his mirror and Shun was given that egg (they didn't mention it but only the most promising students are allowed to handle living beings). What Shisei and Koufuu do in this episode is something ordinary people can only dream of doing (and that includes things as seemingly simple as changing the wind's direction), and Tomiko even said that repairing her telomeres was something only she could do.

So in theory it's possible but in practice not really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Really, Yakomaru's group is now just defending itself.
You would think so, eh?

By the way, we still have only Squealer's word that they're living in a dream democracy where everyone is equal and little bakenezumi pups frolic freely on the meadows and stuff... and Squealer's trustworthiness is questionable, to say the least. Not to mention it's worth thinking about how his supercolony even came to existence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
The way the humans of this world treat and think of the Queerats is quite disturbing. It's nothing short of monstrous, really. The Queerats are a sentient race, and their leaders are even able to communicate clearly with humans. And the humans treat them like cattle, if not worst than cattle.
Yeah... disturbing, isn't it? And yet so familiar from our own history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I'd like to see this too. To be honest at this point I don't feel anything for these characters. Well, I feel a bit for Saki and the loss of her friends. But as for the town and most of the PKers... I really want them all dead.
So you would have innocents suffer and die for being part of something they never asked to be part of? You would have an entire society, an entire species be destroyed because you don't agree with what they're doing?

Actually, going by that logic we, humanity on a whole, could might as well go and kill ourselves right now. I mean, look at all the horrible things we have done and still do, for things that are ultimately much less important than our continued survival.

Yes, it's a sick society. That's why this is a dystopia. But it's not sick for the sake of being sick. It's a society that's burdened not only by the weight of its ugly past but also by an ever-present danger that might destroy it. What do you expect them to do, throw up their hands and say "our continued survival is not worth this price, let's just die out and be done with it"? "Our people have struggled to survive for this long but we think our society is not right so we'll open ourselves up to danger and embrace whatever happens"? Maybe that would be the nice and honorable way, but I don't think it wouldn't be very human-like... after all, history is pretty much a sequence of people doing what they think is the best in a given situation and then dealing with the consequences, good or bad.

Going to the extremes is simple and rarely helpful, is all I'm saying.

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-02-03 at 06:24.
kuromitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 06:04   Link #49
Kirarakim
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
In fact, my view on Tomiko has changed considerably with this episode. For all her age and supposed wisdom, that lady has one hell of a mean streak. Her plans for Yakomaru are about as extreme as it gets.
I actually expect something bad to happen to Tomiko after that line. It is almost like she spelled out her doom to me.


Quote:
My one issue with this episode (and with SSY in general since the latest time-skip) is that this is all feeling like a Greek Tragedy playing out in Super-Slo Mo. I find myself getting a bit numb to it all after awhile, and so I hope the pace picks up while I still care about some of these characters.
This is actually one of my favorite thing about this series that it's a true blue tragedy. We don't often have this type of storytelling in anime and that makes it feel fresh to me.

Of course at times it's hard to watch because you know its all going to get worse but at the same time that is the beauty of a true tragedy. It's even knowing if the character did things differently things would not have turned out like this but now that they did the course it set.


On another note while it seems the Queerrats are just defending themselves, I don't entirely agree that they weren't planning on attacking, I believe they just moved up the attack knowing that the humans found out. I don't think it is a coincidence that they destroyed the queerrat group most loyal to the humans & the fact that they have a cantus user (and we have all already predicted who that is). I just don't see either side as "innocent" here.
__________________

Last edited by Kirarakim; 2013-02-03 at 07:54.
Kirarakim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 07:24   Link #50
GoldenLand
Eaten by goats
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
A good ep! But confusing in some ways.

That scene with Maria was odd! It was either showing her loyalty shifting away from Saki and a potential choice to work for the Queerats, or being used by the story to place the focus on children and that there could be a child of Maria and Mamoru in Yakomaru's clutches. Probably the latter. The way they had her saying all that was just so strange. I didn't understand the purpose/context of the words being shown a few times in this ep.

The bone investigation, though...It's easy to assume it's legit and that those two really are dead. Would be interesting if Yakomaru had been thinking while talking to Satoru and Saki and saying he could arrange fake bones that he would simply give the village the real bones. He said it could take some time, and the anime hasn't told us when Yakomaru delivered the bones to them. Maybe he was just waiting until those two had a kid before killing them

But it's still possible that the bones are fakes. The Queerats might have some technology which could fake the bones (although I'd guess this is unlikely) or extract some bones while leaving one or both of the pair alive, perhaps giving them prosthetics. There's also a chance that Mamoru's art skill might extend as far as to faking bones or creating prosthetics. He's probably got a good grasp of anatomy, perspective, and copying. Although to deal with things on the level of DNA and such...there isn't any proof of him being able to handle anything so complicated.

Or, given what Yakomaru is like, it's quite possible that Creb above is right and that he's extracted the bones he needs from them and is keeping a helpless Maria and Mamoru for breeding purposes.

If Maria really doesn't show up again, the ending song is going to be really, really misleading. It will be a real let down if she doesn't get more of a role and many of her appearances in the last eps were solely for padding and yuri bait. (Much as I like yuri, it's not so great if the last we see of Maria is filler with no substance.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
I actually expect something bad to happen to Tomiko after that line. It is almost like she spelled out her doom to me.
Yes, I do have the feeling she's going to come to a sticky end sooner or later. Lady clearly has a vengeful streak. She would need to be a hard person, to do many of the things she's felt she's had to do while in her leadership position. She's not someone who's faltered when it comes to running a system where innocent kids are regularly murdered by people they thought they could trust.

If she gets killed later for choosing to torture Yakomaru and drag things out rather than just kill him quickly, it'll be ironic.
GoldenLand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 08:04   Link #51
kuromitsu
我、勝てり!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
On another note while it seems the Queerrats are just defending themselves, I don't entirely agree that they weren't planning on attacking, I believe they just moved up the attack knowing that the humans found out. I don't think it is a coincidence that they destroyed the queerrat group most loyal to the humans & the fact that they have a cantus user (and we have all already predicted who that is). I just don't see either side as "innocent" here.
Plus, you know, we're talking about Yakomaru here, who cooked up that elaborate scheme to destroy Kiroumaru's colony - why did he order an attack that he knew would be defeated? How is that self-defense? And without even trying to use his "secret weapon"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
Yes, I do have the feeling she's going to come to a sticky end sooner or later. Lady clearly has a vengeful streak. She would need to be a hard person, to do many of the things she's felt she's had to do while in her leadership position. She's not someone who's faltered when it comes to running a system where innocent kids are regularly murdered by people they thought they could trust.
Yes, it's not surprising that Tomiko is not your usual sweet old grandma. She had to be very tough to do what she's been doing in the last 200+ years.
kuromitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 09:10   Link #52
Solace
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
The way the humans of this world treat and think of the Queerats is quite disturbing. It's nothing short of monstrous, really. The Queerats are a sentient race, and their leaders are even able to communicate clearly with humans. And the humans treat them like cattle, if not worst than cattle.
Pretend the Queerats are humans without Cantus.

Look I get that people are disturbed by this dystopian future, but hey, just look in the mirror. Humanity as it exists is horrible, with or without psychic powers. The mark of good science fiction is to be able to be a mirror of the human condition. SSY does this pretty well.

There's a reason humans are at the top of the food chain. We are monsters.
__________________
Solace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 09:31   Link #53
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
On another note while it seems the Queerrats are just defending themselves, I don't entirely agree that they weren't planning on attacking,
I never said that the Queerats weren't planning to attack the humans. But whatever they were planning, they now have no choice but to take the fight to the humans because of the actual actions of the humans. The alternative is to just stand there and get wiped out.

We can debate over Yakomaru himself, but for your "rank and file" Queerat, they've been thrown into war whether they wanted it or not, and they're legitimately fighting for their lives.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Plus, you know, we're talking about Yakomaru here, who cooked up that elaborate scheme to destroy Kiroumaru's colony - why did he order an attack that he knew would be defeated?
Hey, it did create some chaos, confusion, and destruction, and it did take out that one muscular guy who seems more powerful than your average adult human cantus user.

Not all fights in a long war are intended to be outright wins. Some are simply meant to weaken and shake up the enemy.

As for Yakomaru's "secret weapon", perhaps he's waiting for more ideal conditions to use it. Perhaps if he used it now, it's not likely to be the decisive war-ender he wants it to be.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 09:57   Link #54
kuromitsu
我、勝てり!
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I never said that the Queerats weren't planning to attack the humans. But whatever they were planning, they now have no choice but to take the fight to the humans because of the actual actions of the humans. The alternative is to just stand there and get wiped out.
Wait, do you remember how this even started? It's not like the village elders decided to punish Yakomaru & Co. because they had nothing better to do with their time. This is the result of Yakomaru's provocation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
We can debate over Yakomaru himself, but for your "rank and file" Queerat, they've been thrown into war whether they wanted it or not, and they're legitimately fighting for their lives.
So nice of Yakomaru, then, to send them to their death in an ambush on the village...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Not all fights in a long war are intended to be outright wins. Some are simply meant to weaken and shake up the enemy.
Sure. But it's another evidence against the "self-defense" excuse...
kuromitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 10:55   Link #55
Kirarakim
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
If they were planning on attacking then it is not in defense, its just who got there first. We heard the human side of things we didn't hear the queer rat side of things, so we can only judge by clues & actions.

I don't think either the queer rats or humans are innocent here as a group although there might be innocent individuals in both groups.

Also again people keep mentioning democracy making the queer rat group something we can root for but why does democracy automatically make your society better? I see the weapons the queer rats have created (even ignoring the cantus user) and question how innocent this society is?

I forget who it was but someone said we are watching a vicious cycle repeat itself. It might be true the queer rats are becoming more human but is our own human society that the queer rats might be emulating really so great?

edit: Just to add something it was Satoru who said in fear that the Queerrats are becoming more human.

We've been saying that the human society has become somewhat like beasts.

But lets look at this another way is becoming more human actually akin to becoming like beasts?

We saw what happened to human society when they developed cantus. It's not like horrible things are new to human society.

I know that is really a negative way to look at humanity and I don't think humanity is all negative either. Perhaps there is still hope to come out of this story in the end but I don't think that would come out of the destruction of either the humans or the queer rats.
__________________

Last edited by Kirarakim; 2013-02-03 at 11:08.
Kirarakim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 10:58   Link #56
ChainLegacy
廉頗
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts, US
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Pretend the Queerats are humans without Cantus.

Look I get that people are disturbed by this dystopian future, but hey, just look in the mirror. Humanity as it exists is horrible, with or without psychic powers. The mark of good science fiction is to be able to be a mirror of the human condition. SSY does this pretty well.

There's a reason humans are at the top of the food chain. We are monsters.
I think the social dynamic of the humans and queerats runs parallel in some ways to most slave classes in human history (despite the fantastical and bizarre circumstances of the world they live in). While the clash between two slave groups is a novelty as far as I know, in other ways it's really not all that unfamiliar of a story. This Japan is something like colonial Haiti, as an example, the ruling class are better armed, but clearly outnumbered and capable of being defeated tactically as well. For this reason, I too have been throwing in my lot with the queerats, simply because I sympathize with their position.

Not to say an outright massacre of Saki's society is an honorable goal, but from the queerats' perspective, I'm not sure what other option they have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Sure. But it's another evidence against the "self-defense" excuse...
If you were in a lower class and you had a capable, cunning leader, who obviously was a shady guy, but had the ambition to free you from being an outright, by birth, slave... wouldn't you follow him? And do they really need to have self-defense as an excuse under these circumstances?
ChainLegacy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 12:33   Link #57
roon
_(:q 」∠)_ _(ФωФ*」∠)_
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
This has come up before ("why do they need bakenezumi if they have power" "they could control the weather and everything") and the thing is, they don't have that kind of power. Or rather, they have the power but only a very select few are able to use it on this level. In school Saki was struggling with repairing a broken bottle while Satoru got congratulated on his mirror and Shun was given that egg (they didn't mention it but only the most promising students are allowed to handle living beings). What Shisei and Koufuu do in this episode is something ordinary people can only dream of doing (and that includes things as seemingly simple as changing the wind's direction), and Tomiko even said that repairing her telomeres was something only she could do.

So in theory it's possible but in practice not really.
Right, then isn't (wasn't...) that something to aspire to, since you know, Maria loooooooves Saki so much? But the revelation that only the most promising students could handle living beings changes things. Plus, the audience knows about Tomiko, but who knows how many in the village even know about her abilities because they could have a normal lifespan as far as we know. Meaning, once again information is kept secret from the masses and Maria is likely more on the average scale of power level.

I love how this show is capable of generating such a wide array of discussion. I'm honestly fascinated with everyone talking about humanity and how perspectives change depending on what side you're on. Thus far there haven't been too many anime shows capable of intellectual exchanges off the bat, so I'm glad this is on my weekly watch list.

That being said, I genuinely don't see either camps being completely innocent, but there are probably some who are ignorant to outside life. I don't want either side completely wiped out, as it's only the major players who are at fault here. The bakenezumi wouldn't have been such a threat if it weren't for Squealer, so I do want to see him go out like Tomiko said. As far as the humans go, the school system clearly needs to be dealt with... So much blood on both sides' hands, really. Makes it more difficult for me to personally judge whether one is more 'right'.

I forgot to add that if ED1 was inspired by the events of this episode (namely the festival), that makes it way more heart-wrenching as the figures in the ED were basically ghosts of people Saki wanted to see. Shun... :< ED1 would've been great here, but I do think Maria's song immediately after the weird Maria scene was oddly effective.

On another note, is Saki officially suspicious of Squealer regarding the whole bones thing? As in, does she think he killed them himself after he was done with them?
roon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 12:43   Link #58
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
If they were planning on attacking then it is not in defense, its just who got there first. We heard the human side of things we didn't hear the queer rat side of things, so we can only judge by clues & actions.

I don't think either the queer rats or humans are innocent here as a group although there might be innocent individuals in both groups.

Also again people keep mentioning democracy making the queer rat group something we can root for but why does democracy automatically make your society better?
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." - Winston Churchill

In other words, democracy is the best form of government that we know of. That's definitely my opinion, and I think that the benefits of a democratic form of government should be pretty self-evident to anybody who lives in a free and democratic country.

If you believe in things like individual rights, empowering people, and governments that are held accountable, then democracy is a no-brainer, imo. As for myself, I believe in those things.


Quote:
I see the weapons the queer rats have created (even ignoring the cantus user) and question how innocent this society is?
Weapons are tools. The question is what is the tool being used for? If the tool is being used to free slaves that otherwise would always remain slaves, is that such a horrible tool?


Quote:
I forget who it was but someone said we are watching a vicious cycle repeat itself. It might be true the queer rats are becoming more human but is our own human society that the queer rats might be emulating really so great?
It's better than the human society in SSY, imo.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 13:06   Link #59
Kirarakim
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
If you believe in things like individual rights, empowering people, and governments that are held accountable, then democracy is a no-brainer, imo. As for myself, I believe in those things.
Of course I believe in things like basic human rights for everyone but my point is I don't think the form of government is the main problem in the human society.

A society can have a so called democracy and not be a better place. Heck you can technically have a democracy and not have human rights for all your citizens. Democracy technically means "the rule of the majority" and technically with a majority not everyone is represented .

Although personally I don't think the form of government is even what the story is criticizing here. Again I think we are just getting a glimpse of our own human history mirrored in this so called future world of ours (history repeats itself).






Quote:
It's better than the human society in SSY, imo.
But that is where I strongly disagree with you. I have not seen any indication that the Queer Rat society is better than the human society. I don't see this as a black & white conflict at all.

I am not saying the way the humans have treated the queer rats is right in any stretch of the word but they are certainly not taking the higher ground here.

Weapons are tools to free a slave race? Let's ignore the fact that they have also used these weapons on their own kind, the very fact that we are shown the weapons they are building have become more destructive, more horrible. Again I think I am missing how the queer rats are better? Because they didn't make the humans slaves? Is that because they don't believe in slavery? (We've been shown in the past that in other circumstances they made their own slaves as well).

I think the problem is we are looking at this differently because my theory about what is happening here is probably very different than yours. I don't see this as a story of slaves against their oppressors. I see it instead as tragedy that is supposed to give us a feeling of deja-vu. I could be very wrong and you could be right about the ultimate path the story is going to take but ultimately I don't think we are supposed to see either side as "right". I just feel an outsider watching a tragedy unfold.
__________________

Last edited by Kirarakim; 2013-02-03 at 13:24.
Kirarakim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 13:16   Link #60
taichi-kun
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
what about the other villages? it's not like saki's village is the only one in kanto.

You still have a lot of work to do Yakomaru

hiromi-chan died off screen
taichi-kun is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 16:04.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.