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Old 2013-02-02, 23:21   Link #2841
sa547
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Good Lord, have you people forgotten how Tsutomo Miyazaki nearly destroyed anime?
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Old 2013-02-02, 23:22   Link #2842
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Now, you better stop with your condescendent tone.
If the truth is condescending, that indicates a few more problems.
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Old 2013-02-02, 23:27   Link #2843
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Originally Posted by Tong View Post
Shamefur Dispray is serious business in East.
But a funny... joke?
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Old 2013-02-02, 23:29   Link #2844
Magin
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The whole-head shaving thing reminds me of the ancient punishment back in the days of samurai, i.e. cutting of the topknot. And as for the purity part... well, every time I see someone bring that argument up, I always think of the infamous Kannagi debacle. Yes, it's been a few years since then, but there are some things that never change, whether the girl in question is either fictional or real.
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Old 2013-02-02, 23:31   Link #2845
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by Magin View Post
The whole-head shaving thing reminds me old the ancient punishment back in the days of samurai, i.e. cutting of the topknot. And as for the purity part... well, every time I see someone bring that argument up, I always think of the infamous Kannagi debacle. Yes, it's been a few years since then, but there are some things that never change, whether the girl in question is either fictional or real.
Man, I heard about that Kannagi shit. Wasn't that just a handful of nuts though? I only read a source where only one guy posted pictures of him cutting up the comic books and declaring his hate because she may have had a boyfriend in the past or something.

If so I'd consider that an exception.

As much as I hate to admit, KiraYamatoFan's words may have truth. Otherwise why would she do this? Really, I'm wondering why would she do this, I am open to more interpretations. Now I've got either she's indirectly rebelling against that rule or what KYF says is true, true enough to enough fans where a Youtube video is okay (though as I type the video is now marked "private", so perhaps the Youtube video was also done while she was in hysterics). Not the whole industry, but there are numbers between "all" and "none".

Still, thinking about this more, I can't see her as a complete not-victim.

And yet again, fuck the paparazzi. Always ruining shit and not respecting people's privacy.

Last edited by Kudryavka; 2013-02-02 at 23:45.
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Old 2013-02-02, 23:47   Link #2846
Tong
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Read the whole thing.

So basically artists there are considered characters, like anime characters. Going out with another boy, means betraying a possible fan who consider her a "waifu".

Guess she really loves the band to resort to such extreme act.
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Old 2013-02-03, 00:06   Link #2847
Ridwan
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The whole purity thing isn't a good indication. I think that's a bigger problem rather then the established rules within a segment of the idol industry, which make enough sense by themselves really.

We can always use more insightful perspectives about what's really happening.
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Old 2013-02-03, 02:47   Link #2848
warita
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post

That makes it even more questionable, why would she do it if she thought/knew millions would hate her if she found out? Well, I don't know the whole story, and perhaps I never will. Maybe only she knows.

Like, when you break a rule knowingly, you know what you're doing. Her reaction to all of this is just shocking to me.
Truth is, I couldnt care less about what some crazy japanese idiol did and why...... but I see a pattern throughout your posts that I find somewhat upsetting. Its this idea you have that people always make rational choices and never do mistakes, because when they are about to commit a mistake, they know its wrong, hence if they still do it, then they are fully responsible for their actions.

To me it sounds like you have never been in a situation where the temptation is so big, you just cant resist anymore and you have to do it, even though the consequencies will be dear. So either, you have a steel control over yourself which most people lack or you are just strong talking out of a purely theoretical position.
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Old 2013-02-03, 02:51   Link #2849
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by warita View Post
Truth is, I couldnt care less about what some crazy japanese idiol did and why...... but I see a pattern throughout your posts that I find somewhat upsetting. Its this idea you have that people always make rational choices and never do mistakes, because when they are about to commit a mistake, they know its wrong, hence if they still do it, then they are fully responsible for their actions.

To me it sounds like you have never been in a situation where the temptation is so big, you just cant resist anymore and you have to do it, even though the consequencies will be dear. So either, you have a steel control over yourself which most people lack or you are just strong talking out of a purely theoretical position.
Of course people make mistakes. But was this a mistake?

And you seem to be assuming I care about her breaking the rule. I don't. I only was concerned over her apologizing in such a way and seemingly acting as if what she did was a terrible crime (and according to some perhaps it was). Maybe she did this so that she would get a lighter "sentence" than she would if she didn't take initiative and embarass herself publicly. Who knows.

Would you say that someone should not be held accountable for their actions if they break a rule and get caught??

Last edited by Kudryavka; 2013-02-03 at 03:05.
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Old 2013-02-03, 03:08   Link #2850
Ridwan
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Did she break an iron pact with other personnels or is there another, more pressing cause behind it ? I think that's the real problem here. The rule itself is legitimate if somewhat tied to a rather concerning social indication.
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Old 2013-02-03, 03:09   Link #2851
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
At least, I know that a very large part of the industry relies on that kind of counter-nature thing considering how many other idols were axed before because they were dating someone like any normal person would.

Now, you better stop with your condescendent tone.
.........


You need to really see what defines "idol" in this case.

Yeah, many of the fans are shit that is true, but if you think a very large part of the music industry there bank on these kind of AKB style idols......think again
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Old 2013-02-03, 03:12   Link #2852
warita
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
And you seem to be assuming I care about her breaking the rule....
No dear, I am assuming you dont give people the right to commit mistakes or succumb to temptation. This attitude you have is way too hard and does not reflect the reality.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
Would you say that someone should not be held accountable for their actions if they break a rule and get caught??
Thats exactly my point, BUT dont misunderstand me. This really depends what rule we are talking about and what circumstances. If she killed somebody, I would be less forgiving.... but you know this really depends on why she would do it and under what ciscumstances. In the end even the law knows the concept of "mitigating circumstances".
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Old 2013-02-03, 03:17   Link #2853
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by warita View Post
No dear, I am assuming you dont give people the right to commit mistakes or succumb to temptation. This attitude you have is way too hard and does not reflect the reality.




Thats exactly my point, BUT dont misunderstand me. This really depends what rule we are talking about and what circumstances. If she killed somebody, I would be less forgiving.... but you know this really depends on why she would do it and under what ciscumstances. In the end even the law knows the concept of "mitigating circumstances".
How do I not give people the right to succumb to temptation?? We don't live in a perfect world. I have nothing against her having fun or whatever she did in that house with her boyfriend. I did not say she should never break a rule. I just say she knew the consequences, so why?

It seems we are talking about different things? You are talking about why she broke the rule, and I am talking about why is she apologizing like this?

And as of now, I think you are not reading my meaning correctly.
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Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
Did she break an iron pact with other personnels or is there another, more pressing cause behind it ? I think that's the real problem here. The rule itself is legitimate if somewhat tied to a rather concerning social indication.
She entered when she was 13, so maybe that has something to do with it?
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Old 2013-02-03, 03:19   Link #2854
warita
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
How do I not give people the right to succumb to temptation??
By saying that if they do succumb to temptation, they are FULLY responsible for what they did and thats obviously not the case.

Sometimes you just cant help yourself and this should be reflected in the punishment..... if the person is to be punished at all. Every person should have the right to commit a mistake and be able to say: look, I am sorry. And people ought to know how to forgive. Especially if it is a nonsense like this particular one we are talking about.
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Old 2013-02-03, 03:19   Link #2855
Ridwan
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She's probably just being too attached then, accompanied with possible usual teenage problems. Or perhaps just the later.
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Old 2013-02-03, 03:37   Link #2856
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by warita View Post
By saying that if they do succumb to temptation, they are FULLY responsible for what they did and thats obviously not the case.

Sometimes you just cant help yourself and this should be reflected in the punishment..... if the person is to be punished at all. Every person should have the right to commit a mistake and be able to say: look, I am sorry. And people ought to know how to forgive. Especially if it is a nonsense like this particular one we are talking about.
My definition of responsible is "don't be surprised if you get in trouble or caught". Not "you must repent for your actions soon".

And yes, people should have a right to say sorry. Is that what you think I am against?? But should someone shave her head and cry on camera and apologize and apologize on Youtube? I'm not saying that what she did was wrong here (just that I don't like it), but do you feel that is what she should have done?

If your answer is no then I don't understand why you think we're thinking differently.

By the way I've been thinking about this a lot today. After hours (yes I am bored ) I am gradually changing my thoughts.

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She's probably just being too attached then, accompanied with possible usual teenage problems. Or perhaps just the later.
I know. I really hope the rule wasn't from some ancient contract from when she was 13. At 13 "no dating" can be seen as protective, but for it to follow her so far in her life so that it prevents her from having age appropriate relationships... T-T
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Old 2013-02-03, 03:45   Link #2857
SeijiSensei
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Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
Good Lord, have you people forgotten how Tsutomo Miyazaki nearly destroyed anime?
I guess I missed the part in the story about Minegishi committing several murders after shaving her head.

What on earth does the Miyazaki case have to do with these events? Do you think an AKB48 girl having a boyfriend, or heaven forbid even sleeping with him, is somehow going to "destroy" AKB48, idol singers, or the J-Pop industry?

The only encouraging bit from the BBC's report is that even some of the fans have started to speak out against this nonsense. Rules limiting the behavior of the underage girls in these groups for their own protection is one thing. Telling adult women in their twenties that they can't even date so as "not to shatter their fans' illusions," as the BBC story put it, is another thing entirely. The fans need to grow up, and the organization needs to become less patriarchal.

And, no, I don't think it matters if their professional persona is based on cuteness. How someone appears on stage and how they live their lives are two separate worlds. I'm reminded of the divergence between the on-screen and off-screen personas of Lucky*Channel's "navigator," Kogami Akira, "cute as a button and pure as snow" as she describes herself. Right.
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Old 2013-02-03, 03:53   Link #2858
Sumeragi
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And, no, I don't think it matters if their professional persona is based on cuteness. How someone appears on stage and how they live their lives are two separate worlds. I'm reminded of the divergence between the on-screen and off-screen personas of Lucky*Channel's "navigator," Kogami Akira.
They're not. A public figure needs to follow certain expectations, especially when they're banking on something fundamental to their professional persona. Martin Luther King Jr. fighting for equal rights does not excuse his extramarital liaisons, given that the supposed moral superiority of Doctor King was fundamental in his work.
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Old 2013-02-03, 04:05   Link #2859
Hitenma
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
Of course people make mistakes. But was this a mistake?

And you seem to be assuming I care about her breaking the rule. I don't. I only was concerned over her apologizing in such a way and seemingly acting as if what she did was a terrible crime (and according to some perhaps it was). Maybe she did this so that she would get a lighter "sentence" than she would if she didn't take initiative and embarass herself publicly. Who knows.

Would you say that someone should not be held accountable for their actions if they break a rule and get caught??
Well, she has already received the official punishment from her employers.
She was demoted from a full fledged member (and to remind you, she is one of the more popular ones of the band) to a mere trainee.
You can see that this is very severe to her career.
And this happened before she made the public apology.
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Old 2013-02-03, 04:05   Link #2860
warita
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I'm reminded of the divergence between the on-screen and off-screen personas of Lucky*Channel's "navigator," Kogami Akira, "cute as a button and pure as snow" as she describes herself. Right.
LOL, this was the best part of every episode. She was adorable the way she couldnt contain her true nature. Makes me want to rewatch the series just for that.
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