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Old 2013-02-02, 19:27   Link #6681
LeoXiao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
So are you saying disciplinary committee is based in truth?
IDK about Japan exactly, but I think it very well could be. Now of course everything in anime is exaggerated, but I wouldn't be surprised if students were given this kind of responsibility (and more workload, incidentally). I'll look into it.
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Old 2013-02-02, 19:30   Link #6682
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
IDK about Japan exactly, but I think it very well could be. Now of course everything in anime is exaggerated, but I wouldn't be surprised if students were given this kind of responsibility (and more workload, incidentally). I'll look into it.
Ok, thank you.
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Old 2013-02-02, 19:38   Link #6683
LeoXiao
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
Ok, thank you.
While waiting for my source to respond, I'll give a couple examples. My mom grew up in China, and she and other students had a bunch of extra work and chores the teacher(s) assigned to them, a fair bit of which was certainly not directly related to studying. Granted this was the 60s and 70s and not Japan but teher might be similarities.

When I went to high school in Germany I was surprised that each class had a couple designated representatives (forget the exact term) who were responsible for various things such as the attendance book, collecting materials the teachers might need, etc. None of this we had in the US, the students were purely there to be taught.
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Old 2013-02-02, 20:01   Link #6684
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
While waiting for my source to respond, I'll give a couple examples. My mom grew up in China, and she and other students had a bunch of extra work and chores the teacher(s) assigned to them, a fair bit of which was certainly not directly related to studying. Granted this was the 60s and 70s and not Japan but teher might be similarities.

When I went to high school in Germany I was surprised that each class had a couple designated representatives (forget the exact term) who were responsible for various things such as the attendance book, collecting materials the teachers might need, etc. None of this we had in the US, the students were purely there to be taught.
Oh no, not like that. I can imagine doing chores for the teacher, or being the mother hen to your class. I am only talking about in anime where disciplinary committee runs around chasing students, and giving out punishments. That seems like something that would get you extremely hated by your peers, which is what most humans don't want, right? They want to be liked and accepted by their peers, or at the very least ignored, but not ostrachized and spit on.

Unless there is an incentive to do so, like being a teacher's pet. But they make disciplinary committee just seem like any old club, no special gain from nagging other students, they just enjoy policing their peers despite the annoyance and hatred.
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Old 2013-02-03, 02:02   Link #6685
Vexx
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In the US, student's in charge of student discipline is more commonly seen at the college and university level.

Student government *used* to be more participatory in U.S. high schools but over the years, legal reasons and admiinstrative control obsessions have made student councils and student government pretty useless (other than for planning the social dance).
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Old 2013-02-03, 02:15   Link #6686
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^ Much the same here, our Student Council isn't *for* much of anything.
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Old 2013-02-03, 02:17   Link #6687
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
In the US, student's in charge of student discipline is more commonly seen at the college and university level.

Student government *used* to be more participatory in U.S. high schools but over the years, legal reasons and admiinstrative control obsessions have made student councils and student government pretty useless (other than for planning the social dance).
There are universities where students grab others and give punishments like go stand in the hallway holding buckets or go wash up the classroom floor? Where??

And as much as I love all of you trying to help out, and thank you, this does not answer my question. Does this mean disciplinary committee is not like magical ninjas?? It is true and done in Japan like in anime and is that why it is done or is it just like magic ninjas who swish through the night and go "Boom! dattebayo"??
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Old 2013-02-03, 02:29   Link #6688
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
There are universities where students grab others and give punishments like go stand in the hallway holding buckets or go wash up the classroom floor? Where??

And as much as I love all of you trying to help out, and thank you, this does not answer my question. Does this mean disciplinary committee is not like magical ninjas?? It is true and done in Japan like in anime and is that why it is done or is it just like magic ninjas who swish through the night and go "Boom! dattebayo"??
Um, no. There are universities where a "American" style of court system is used to decide whether students should be suspended or expelled for behavior.

And as far as I know, "buckets" haven't been used in decades in Japanese schools and it would be the *teacher* issuing that punishment. Clean up duty, otoh, is used in many schools in Japan and in the US (in the US, often students in detention are used for litter patrol). In Japan, cleaning up the school is not really a punishment but more often a rotation duty of classes.
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Old 2013-02-03, 02:32   Link #6689
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Um, no. There are universities where a "American" style of court system is used to decide whether students should be suspended or expelled for behavior.

And as far as I know, "buckets" haven't been used in decades in Japanese schools and it would be the *teacher* issuing that punishment. Clean up duty, otoh, is used in many schools in Japan and in the US (in the US, often students in detention are used for litter patrol). In Japan, cleaning up the school is not really a punishment but more often a rotation duty of classes.
Exactly. It's not in Japan, it's in anime only, right? Which was my question?

Sorry if I sounded mean, I'm not mad. I am just wondering when or if a good answer will come.
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Old 2013-02-03, 03:05   Link #6690
Vexx
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Even the old series Azumanga Daioh made fun of the "bucket" meme because it was out of date even in the early 2000s. In the series, the class clown is dying to be punished with buckets and gives herself the punishment even though the teacher is saying that's not necessary. The clown ends up making a big mess with the water anyway.
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Old 2013-02-03, 03:06   Link #6691
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Even the old series Azumanga Daioh made fun of the "bucket" meme because it was out of date even in the early 2000s. In the series, the class clown is dying to be punished with buckets and gives herself the punishment even though the teacher is saying that's not necessary. The clown ends up making a big mess with the water anyway.
Yea, I don't know what's up with some of the anime I watch. Watched a brand new one where a girl gets the bucket punishment.

Anyway, all this hullabulloo seems to be confirming that the disciplinary committee is just an anime thing. Or not, I don't know anymore.
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Old 2013-02-03, 03:14   Link #6692
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^ Would they include such a thing as the Student Discipline Committee in numerous different animes if it was not based on something the Japanese experienced/see in real life? This isn't the same thing as giant robots, it's something that could easily be real, and there's really very little point in making it up.
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Old 2013-02-03, 03:20   Link #6693
Vexx
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Most anime producers and writers (usually 20/30-somethings) are telling stories using their own memories of high school. So, until recently you didn't even see *cell phones* in high school anime. So old memes tend to stick around because a lot of what anime sells is nostalgia for "high schools that never were but should have been".

I kind of wonder if the bucket meme is in the same category as the "sweatdrop" or the "nosebleed" now. It is a metaphorical indication that the student is in trouble (like sweatdrop = tense or nosebleed = omigodbrainzjustmeltedfrombeauty)
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Old 2013-02-03, 03:27   Link #6694
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by Hasumi View Post
^ Would they include such a thing as the Student Discipline Committee in numerous different animes if it was not based on something the Japanese experienced/see in real life? This isn't the same thing as giant robots, it's something that could easily be real, and there's really very little point in making it up.
Like I said before, should I assume Japan has magic ninjas and samurais just because I see it in anime?

I understand what you are saying. But please understand my point of view as well. In my country (or how about in my city, my country has many differing lifestyles), at least, we do not have students punish fellow students in organized, school approved committees. We have tattletales, but since most of their peers won't like them, so they don't go making clubs all about tattilng (just an example, I am not trying to reduce disciplinary committee to the level of tattling). To me, the idea seemed almost as farfetched as magic ninjas. So, just like I will not sit here and ask "Everyone in Japan has big eyes and colorful hair right? Because almost every anime ever told me so", I will not automatically assume that this particular anime, um, idea is completely representative of reality.

That is why I asked. If it is true and disciplinary committees like that exist in Japanese high schools in real life, then so be it, my question is answered. But as of yet, I have not gotten a single answer clearly stating yes or no.

Yes, the idea is realistic. It is to the extent which disciplinary committees are shown in anime which I doubted existed in reality. Now don't take anything of this personally, like I explained my doubt is to my environment, it is not based in any truth nor do I stubbornly think it is based in any truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Most anime producers and writers (usually 20/30-somethings) are telling stories using their own memories of high school. So, until recently you didn't even see *cell phones* in high school anime. So old memes tend to stick around because a lot of what anime sells is nostalgia for "high schools that never were but should have been".

I kind of wonder if the bucket meme is in the same category as the "sweatdrop" or the "nosebleed" now. It is a metaphorical indication that the student is in trouble (like sweatdrop = tense or nosebleed = omigodbrainzjustmeltedfrombeauty)
I have heard of this. And the bucket thing being just an outdated sign, I like that. It's like the dunce cap, I still see fictional characters wear it even though we stopped using it long ago.

Does this mean disciplinary committees used to exist, I wonder?

Last edited by Kudryavka; 2013-02-03 at 03:58.
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Old 2013-02-03, 04:40   Link #6695
Masuzu
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
Like I said before, should I assume Japan has magic ninjas and samurais just because I see it in anime?

I understand what you are saying. But please understand my point of view as well. In my country (or how about in my city, my country has many differing lifestyles), at least, we do not have students punish fellow students in organized, school approved committees. We have tattletales, but since most of their peers won't like them, so they don't go making clubs all about tattilng (just an example, I am not trying to reduce disciplinary committee to the level of tattling). To me, the idea seemed almost as farfetched as magic ninjas. So, just like I will not sit here and ask "Everyone in Japan has big eyes and colorful hair right? Because almost every anime ever told me so", I will not automatically assume that this particular anime, um, idea is completely representative of reality.

That is why I asked. If it is true and disciplinary committees like that exist in Japanese high schools in real life, then so be it, my question is answered. But as of yet, I have not gotten a single answer clearly stating yes or no.

Yes, the idea is realistic. It is to the extent which disciplinary committees are shown in anime which I doubted existed in reality. Now don't take anything of this personally, like I explained my doubt is to my environment, it is not based in any truth nor do I stubbornly think it is based in any truth.
No, the idea is not akin to magic ninjas. Magic ninjas cannot exist, Student Discipline Committees can. Most of us here are foreigners and so unless Sumeragi, aohige, etc. are willing to enlighten all of us we may never know if they actually have Student Discipline Committees in Japan.

Now does that mean we need to know for sure sure with pictures and official documents from Japan clearly stating that they exist? No, absolutely not. Simply because it is not a fantastic or grand idea like say for example magic ninjas, we can conclude that they most likely do exist. To the same extent as they do in anime? No, ofcourse not, or are we forgetting about suspension of disbelief?

The key here is weather or not we can apply the same logic to 'hey, my moderator's gonna kill me if you don't wear your I.D.' and 'hey, wanna see me summon a giant frog?'.

The final nail perhaps in the coffin of this question would be an old story from a certain man's younger days. Back in highschool this certain man had schoolmates who worked under the Student Welfare and Development and gave out late passes at the school entrances to students who otherwise could've slipped in unnoticed and not have to have been marked late on their records. Were these students hated? No, any frustration the students had was directed at the teachers giving them their orders in the Student Welfare and Development Office.

Why did they sign up for such a job? Nobody knew, nobody asked, nobody cared.
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Old 2013-02-03, 04:41   Link #6696
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by Hasumi View Post
No, the idea is not akin to magic ninjas. Magic ninjas cannot exist, Student Discipline Committees can. Most of us here are foreigners and so unless Sumeragi, aohige, etc. are willing to enlighten all of us we may never know if they actually have Student Discipline Committees in Japan.

Now does that mean we need to know for sure sure with pictures and official documents from Japan clearly stating that they exist? No, absolutely not. Simply because it is not a fantastic or grand idea like say for example magic ninjas, we can conclude that they most likely do exist. To the same extent as they do in anime? No, ofcourse not, or are we forgetting about suspension of disbelief?

The key here is weather or not we can apply the same logic to 'hey, my moderator's gonna kill me if you don't wear your I.D.' and 'hey, wanna see me summon a giant frog?'.

The final nail perhaps in the coffin of this question would be an old story from a certain man's younger days. Back in highschool this certain man had schoolmates who worked under the Student Welfare and Development and gave out late passes at the school entrances to students who otherwise could've slipped in unnoticed and not have to have been marked late on their records. Were these students hated? No, any frustration the students had was directed at the teachers giving them their orders in the Student Welfare and Development Office.

Why did they sign up for such a job? Nobody knew, nobody asked, nobody cared.
I don't see why my question has to die before getting answered... ?

There are plenty of people here with more first hand experience with Japan than me. So I don't think I was asking for the impossible by asking my question. Never asked for documents, never asked for pictures, never asked for real names. Just a fact.

And man, you're really not putting yourself in my shoes to even try to understand why I would ask this.

And thank you for your example, but I already said disciplinary committee in anime do way more than that. And was that even in Japan??
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Old 2013-02-03, 04:52   Link #6697
Ridwan
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Suddenly came up to me, but I wonder that whether there has been any Konfrontasi between Indonesian and Malaysian members happening on this board...

Because if not, then that's good.
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Old 2013-02-03, 05:02   Link #6698
Masuzu
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
I don't see why my question has to die before getting answered... ?

There are plenty of people here with more first hand experience with Japan than me. So I don't think I was asking for the impossible by asking my question. Never asked for documents, never asked for pictures, never asked for real names. Just a fact.

And man, you're really not putting yourself in my shoes to even try to understand why I would ask this.

And thank you for your example, but I already said disciplinary committee in anime do way more than that. And was that even in Japan??
Man I don't know if my English is not good enough or what because we're not picking up the same nuances here.

I understand exactly why you'd ask this. To you it seems like an impossibility that students would want to undertake such a task if they would only be hated. Did I get that wrong? Ofcourse not, I couldn't have.

Then There's the matter of certainty, at no point did I mean that it was impossible to know the answer for sure, I even dropped names just to make it very very clear, or perhaps not clear enough.

We all know they do much more than that, but I thought I'd already adressed that before.

Quote:
To the same extent as they do in anime? No, ofcourse not, or are we forgetting about suspension of disbelief?
^ Case in point, we absolutely must not apply the same standards to real life as to anime.

It goes without saying that even the most ordinary things in anime would not be the same as is real life, this is no different.
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Old 2013-02-03, 05:13   Link #6699
Kudryavka
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Man I don't know if my English is not good enough or what because we're not picking up the same nuances here.

I understand exactly why you'd ask this. To you it seems like an impossibility that students would want to undertake such a task if they would only be hated. Did I get that wrong? Ofcourse not, I couldn't have.

Then There's the matter of certainty, at no point did I mean that it was impossible to know the answer for sure, I even dropped names just to make it very very clear, or perhaps not clear enough.

We all know they do much more than that, but I thought I'd already adressed that before.



^ Case in point, we absolutely must not apply the same standards to real life as to anime.

It goes without saying that even the most ordinary things in anime would not be the same as is real life, this is no different.
That is what I've been saying...?! That I won't apply the same standards to real life as to anime, so I won't automatically assume that??

Look at the forest. Understand what I was trying to say, I know you do. Don't nitpick because magic ninjas can't possibly exist on this earth. I think you're just picking up the wrong nuances.

tl;dr Why are you debating over a question??
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Old 2013-02-03, 05:18   Link #6700
Masuzu
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
That is what I've been saying...?! That I won't apply the same standards to real life as to anime, so I won't automatically assume that??

Look at the forest. Understand what I was trying to say, I know you do. Don't nitpick because magic ninjas can't possibly exist on this earth. I think you're just picking up the wrong nuances.
I only respond to what you say.

In the case of my comment on applying standards, I was replying to.

Quote:
but I already said disciplinary committee in anime do way more than that
I didn't even mention the magical ninjas in my last post, an idea which I will remind you did not come from me.


Do I know what you're trying to say? I thought I did, now I'm not so sure what this is about anymore.
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