AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-02-03, 04:07   Link #2861
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I guess I missed the part in the story about Minegishi committing several murders after shaving her head.

What on earth does the Miyazaki case have to do with these events? Do you think an AKB48 girl having a boyfriend, or heaven forbid even sleeping with him, is somehow going to "destroy" AKB48, idol singers, or the J-Pop industry?

The only encouraging bit from the BBC's report is that even some of the fans have started to speak out against this nonsense. Rules limiting the behavior of the underage girls in these groups for their own protection is one thing. Telling adult women in their twenties that they can't even date so as "not to shatter their fans' illusions," as the BBC story put it, is another thing entirely. The fans need to grow up, and the organization needs to become less patriarchal.

And, no, I don't think it matters if their professional persona is based on cuteness. How someone appears on stage and how they live their lives are two separate worlds. I'm reminded of the divergence between the on-screen and off-screen personas of Lucky*Channel's "navigator," Kogami Akira, "cute as a button and pure as snow" as she describes herself. Right.
Urgh, I can't cookie this any more so I'm just going to requote it for Great Truth and Justice.
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:09   Link #2862
sa547
Senior Member
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philippines
Age: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I guess I missed the part in the story about Minegishi committing several murders after shaving her head.

What on earth does the Miyazaki case have to do with these events? Do you think an AKB48 girl having a boyfriend, or heaven forbid even sleeping with him, is somehow going to "destroy" AKB48, idol singers, or the J-Pop industry?
I mention this because when it was discovered that Miyazaki was an anime fan, the Japanese press came down hard and emphasized it with relish, and the next thing there's this moral scare that put anime in the crosshairs.

As much as it seems the rule is a "violation of human rights", once again I'll have to say this: it's the only thing that tries to keep the status quo in place, to ensure that both performers and fans know there's a line not to be crossed and for them to maintain cordial relations.

Imagine having this rule abolished, and the tabloids will also have a field day stalking idols and their boyfriends, and then some jealous fan decides to go berserk by invading the girl's home.
__________________
sa547 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:10   Link #2863
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Urgh, I can't cookie this any more so I'm just going to requote it for Great Truth and Justice.
It's one of the worst pieces of pro-individualist sophism I've seen on Animesuki.
Sumeragi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:10   Link #2864
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
I know. I really hope the rule wasn't from some ancient contract from when she was 13. At 13 "no dating" can be seen as protective, but for it to follow her so far in her life so that it prevents her from having age appropriate relationships... T-T
It's no dogmatic ancient contract, just a legitimate professional one which doesn't breach any individual right. AKB48 is indeed meant to serve people who likes illusionary purity. If she really prefers dating over the club she can just quit.

Sumeragi pretty much nails it. I think the problem here is whether there really is a repressive pressure involved that drove her to shave her head. But so far it doesn't seem to be coming from the system, if any.
__________________
Ridwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:22   Link #2865
KiraYamatoFan
Wanna punch Moyes, grr!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
As much as it seems the rule is a "violation of human rights", once again I'll have to say this: it's the only thing that tries to keep the status quo in place, to ensure that both performers and fans know there's a line not to be crossed.

Imagine having this rule abolished, and the tabloids will also have a field day stalking idols and their boyfriends, and then some jealous fan decides to go berserk by invading the girl's home.
As if there's no such risk outside of Japan when you're a idol or a celebrity... geez. That's why lawyers and bodyguards are paid to get those overzealous linecrossers straight down to jail.

What is worse in the situation here? Completely humiliating a fullgrown adult woman because she did something that is STILL part of human nature, or shatter the illusions of a group of people who don't know how to date women in real life? If any normal person has to go by heart and logic, the better option would be to get the wankers to go f themselves.
__________________
Sack this Scottish piece of s*** in the morning already! #MoyesOut
KiraYamatoFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:26   Link #2866
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
Normally, whenever I feel too excited for a discussion, I just back off.
__________________
Ridwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:29   Link #2867
Kudryavka
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitenma View Post
Well, she has already received the official punishment from her employers.
She was demoted from a full fledged member (and to remind you, she is one of the more popular ones of the band) to a mere trainee.
You can see that this is very severe to her career.
And this happened before she made the public apology.
I know. Maybe there was something in store for her, like completely dropping her from the whole AKB48 group (group of groups). I was just guessing there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
It's no dogmatic ancient contract, just a legitimate professional one which doesn't breach any individual right. AKB48 is indeed meant to serve people who likes illusionary purity. If she really prefers dating over the club she can just quit.

Sumeragi pretty much nails it. I think the problem here is whether there really is a repressive pressure involved that drove her to shave her head. But so far it doesn't seem to be coming from the system, if any.
Ok, I had a good feeling I was wrong.
Kudryavka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:30   Link #2868
LeoXiao
提倡自我工業化
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
Sumeragi pretty much nails it. I think the problem here is whether there really is a repressive pressure involved that drove her to shave her head. But so far it doesn't seem to be coming from the system, if any.
I'd say there of course is pressure*, but hey, there's improvement! She didn't hang herself!

*=Not that this is a bad thing. The individualist "screw u i'm gonna do what I want" mentality needs to be reined in by the collective culture, even if the guidelines sometimes result in rather ridiculous situations.
__________________
Die Arbeit macht selig, denn die Arbeit macht frei
LeoXiao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:32   Link #2869
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 26
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I guess I missed the part in the story about Minegishi committing several murders after shaving her head.

What on earth does the Miyazaki case have to do with these events? Do you think an AKB48 girl having a boyfriend, or heaven forbid even sleeping with him, is somehow going to "destroy" AKB48, idol singers, or the J-Pop industry?

The only encouraging bit from the BBC's report is that even some of the fans have started to speak out against this nonsense. Rules limiting the behavior of the underage girls in these groups for their own protection is one thing. Telling adult women in their twenties that they can't even date so as "not to shatter their fans' illusions," as the BBC story put it, is another thing entirely. The fans need to grow up, and the organization needs to become less patriarchal.

And, no, I don't think it matters if their professional persona is based on cuteness. How someone appears on stage and how they live their lives are two separate worlds. I'm reminded of the divergence between the on-screen and off-screen personas of Lucky*Channel's "navigator," Kogami Akira, "cute as a button and pure as snow" as she describes herself. Right.
Being an IDOL has its consequences... You're being owned by the public... Well, there is always an option... retirement.. LOLs
NoemiChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:38   Link #2870
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
What is worse in the situation here? Completely humiliating a fullgrown adult woman because she did something that is STILL part of human nature, or shatter the illusions of a group of people who don't know how to date women in real life? If any normal person has to go by heart and logic, the better option would be to get the wankers to go f themselves.
Minegishi humiliated no one but herself. Damn "human nature", if someone cannot stick to one's professional responsibilities and then go on this retarded show publicly, I feel absolutely no pity at all. I have no idea why people are "defending" this girl given the irresponsibility.

That is my final take on this. I'm down with kids messing around with their jobs and then pulling off a stunt like this.
Sumeragi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:40   Link #2871
kramerica
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Being an IDOL has its consequences... You're being owned by the public...
Which brings me back to one of the questions I asked before: how could a 13-year old properly make such a decision to be "owned by the public" to be an idol?

And given that she is now 20, I'm just thinking "seriously, she's an adult now." That's is why I'm vexed by the "idol image" that AKB holds on to. Pure idols that do gravure shots The whole "selling their image" angle. What am I supposed to see them as? Teases?
__________________

Nanael is not amused.
kramerica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:40   Link #2872
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
They're not. A public figure needs to follow certain expectations, especially when they're banking on something fundamental to their professional persona. Martin Luther King Jr. fighting for equal rights does not excuse his extramarital liaisons, given that the supposed moral superiority of Doctor King was fundamental in his work.
How does one define himself/her by "public figure" then?

As much as image is important to be held by others in a certain level of esteem, the ability to produce work should be placed priority over the image maintained for the sake of their fans. Although the girls have maintained their image as cute and energetic young girls, their talent level remains to be seen with no personalised style to their music.

The last time I have seen a girlband with a unique style is BeForU, even that each of the girls have their own flavour of singing. Their music isn't that epic, yes, but at least it is unique in its own way. AKB is simply a tool that converts plain music into cash.

Either that or I am wrong that the girls' work is to show off their legs and how they look in cute clothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Urgh, I can't cookie this any more so I'm just going to requote it for Great Truth and Justice.
I don't know, but the idea of entertainment is that they are supposed to be what they are 24/7 - they signed the contract to live their lives under a complete pretense like reality TV actors and actresses. Even that is so, I guess that we men are naturally stupidified in the face of adorable girls even though they are heartbreakers and gold diggers.

They attract based on their ability to project the "perfect girl" image to their fans and milk them, much like their ancient counterparts of the geisha.

I know this next line is going to sound extremely offensive, however I think such a marketing technique is based entirely on the Japanese culture's desire for perfection, even their girls. The community has to get a grip and wake up their idea that there is no such thing as a "perfect girl" - there are certain things a man has to put up with because a mutual relationship always work on a give-and-take basis. *

* - I would rather die than to marry a fujoshi.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:42   Link #2873
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
I'd say there of course is pressure*, but hey, there's improvement! She didn't hang herself!

*=Not that this is a bad thing. The individualist "screw u i'm gonna do what I want" mentality needs to be reined in by the collective culture, even if the guidelines sometimes result in rather ridiculous situations.
This topic reminds me that people just like to jump into some topic without manners and restraints, which in turn reminds me that I never care about AKB48 to begin with.
__________________
Ridwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:45   Link #2874
willx
Nyaaan~~
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 30
Oh hey, I pop back on and this is still going on, okay .. *rolls up sleeves*

It's not a question about personal life/boyfriend and societal issues specific to this case. There have been cases in the past where AKB48 or other girl group members have resigned due to information leaking out that they have boyfriends. These groups typically have explicit rules on "No boyfriends!" -- so it's a professional contract issue.

The bigger issue really is about the fanbase that demands this. (As said previously, I personally think that all these obsessive fans are all useless wastes of space) It's a big enough deal and apparently commonly accepted enough as normal/expected that even the Bakuman manga did an arc on it! If I were to ask and say: "Do other female entertainers in the anime/idol/etc space that do not sign these "no boyfriend" contracts still face the same flack?" -- answer is likely yes? Is that a problem?
__________________
Nyaaaan~~
willx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:46   Link #2875
LeoXiao
提倡自我工業化
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Vereinigte Staaten
Age: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
This topic reminds me that people just like to jump into some topic without manners and restraints, which in turn reminds me that I never care about AKB48 to begin with.
My opinion: Cute girls, average music.

Also, people need to stop overreacting, the girl's hair will grow back to a respectable length in about a year.
__________________
Die Arbeit macht selig, denn die Arbeit macht frei
LeoXiao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:48   Link #2876
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
Oh hey, I pop back on and this is still going on, okay .. *rolls up sleeves*
Let's not.
__________________
Ridwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:52   Link #2877
willx
Nyaaan~~
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
My opinion: Cute girls, average music.

Also, people need to stop overreacting, the girl's hair will grow back to a respectable length in about a year.
None of us really care much about the girl. I care about her none at all. Everyone is here to make judgements upon a society and niche subculture we know nothing/little/moderate/a lot about!
__________________
Nyaaaan~~
willx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:53   Link #2878
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
If I were to ask and say: "Do other female entertainers in the anime/idol/etc space that do not sign these "no boyfriend" contracts still face the same flack?" -- answer is likely yes?
Answer is: Rarely if ever, short of Hirano Aya level problems.
Sumeragi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:53   Link #2879
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 26
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramerica View Post
Which brings me back to one of the questions I asked before: how could a 13-year old properly make such a decision to be "owned by the public" to be an idol? Teases?
I'm not saying she is owned but being owned. Fans has their taste but that doesn't mean she has to follow and do everything the fans wants. I meant when you step on the stage you already start selling you self and you're private life and love.. Lolss..

Did she wish to become an idol? why she sings on the stage on the tv?
NoemiChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 04:57   Link #2880
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
None of us really care much about the girl. I care about her none at all. Everyone is here to make judgements upon a society and niche subculture we know nothing/little/moderate/a lot about!
I was kept awake by the haunting thought that I would be wasting time sleeping instead of arguing with people on the internet
__________________
Ridwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
culture, discussion, japan, japanese culture

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.