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View Poll Results: Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 18 Rating
Perfect 10 24 38.71%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 23 37.10%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 9 14.52%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 6.45%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.61%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.61%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-02-03, 13:34   Link #61
kuromitsu
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Whoa, whoa...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Democracy etc.
You should watch Legend of Galactic Heroes.

Also, as someone who lives in a nominally free and democratic country that is rotten to the core, I personally think that while the ideals of democracy are great, the execution thereof will never match up to them because humans will always be humans.

Also, to return the topic to where we started - Squealer's little monologue in ep 17 about their colony being a ~democracy~ where each and every individual is valuable, unlike the old ways where they're just pawns to be sacrificed whenever needed, etc. etc..... this coming from Squealer was sketchy to start with, but after this episode? Where his actions pretty much went against of what he preached? Against the reasons he used to take the higher moral ground? Really...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Weapons are tools. The question is what is the tool being used for? If the tool is being used to free slaves that otherwise would always remain slaves, is that such a horrible tool?
Oh, but if the tool is being used to free slaves, murder innocents, and also murder their own kind - then what?

Really - there's no "bad" side and "good" side in this story. There are just shades of gray (more than 50!).
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Old 2013-02-03, 13:46   Link #62
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Of course I believe in things like basic human rights for everyone but my point is I don't think the form of government is the main problem in the human society.

A society can have a so called democracy and not be a better place. Heck you can technically have a democracy and not have human rights for all your citizens.
True, but the way Yakomaru speaks of the democratic form of government embraced by his people, it sounds like its based on egalitarian ideals.

Yakomaru could be lying, of course, but it's hard for me to see why he would lie here. What does he have to gain by telling the humans of SSY that his people have embraced democracy and egalitarian ideals?


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But that is where I strongly disagree with you. I have not seen any indication that the Queer Rat society is better than the human society.
I never said that the Queer Rat society is better than the human society of SSY.

You wrote "It might be true the queer rats are becoming more human but is our own human society that the queer rats might be emulating really so great?" (bold emphasis mine)

To which I replied "It's better than the human society in SSY, imo"

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I should have been, but what I meant by that is that I think that "our own human society" (i.e. modern human society in the real world) is better than the human society in SSY. So better for the Queerats to emulate historical human society than the human society in SSY, imo.


Quote:
I think the problem is we are looking at this differently because my theory about what is happening here is probably very different than yours. I don't see this as a story of slaves against their oppressors. I see it instead as tragedy that is supposed to give us a feeling of deja-vu. I could be very wrong and you could be right about the ultimate path the story is going to take but ultimately I don't think we are supposed to see either side as "right". I just feel an outsider watching a tragedy unfold.
You could well be right, but I honestly hope you're wrong. I have little interest in seeing some bleak, pointless tragedy unfold that would make even Gen Urobuchi blush. I'd rather think there's a theme to this work that points to what it truly means to be human, and so the queerats are now eclipsing humans due to how humans have lost sight of that while queerats are embracing it.


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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Whoa, whoa...

You should watch Legend of Galactic Heroes.
I have watched it. What's your point?

Is there a form of government that you think is better than democracy?


Quote:

Also, to return the topic to where we started - Squealer's little monologue in ep 17 about their colony being a ~democracy~ where each and every individual is valuable, unlike the old ways where they're just pawns to be sacrificed whenever needed, etc. etc..... this coming from Squealer was sketchy to start with, but after this episode? Where his actions pretty much went against of what he preached?
So what do you suggest he do? Just tell his people to stand still, or do whatever they want, and wait to be slaughtered? Sure the odds are horribly against them, but taking the fight to the humans is probably their best bet for eventually winning this war.

I don't see anything that happened in this episode that is incompatible with what Yakomaru has already stated pertaining to the ideals that his people ostensibly adhere to. You can't have individual rights if you don't deal with more powerful beings that are oppressing you. That's pretty obvious, if you ask me. At worst, it's an exception that proves the rule.


Quote:
Oh, but if the tool is being used to free slaves, murder innocents, and also murder their own kind - then what?
Again, what do you suggest he do? Can you think of a non-violent way for the Queerats to free themselves of harsh human control and manipulation?


Quote:
Really - there's no "bad" side and "good" side in this story.
Even if so, a viewer could conceivably find one side more sympathetic than the other.
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Old 2013-02-03, 14:01   Link #63
Kirarakim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I should have been, but what I meant by that is that I think that "our own human society" (i.e. modern human society in the real world) is better than the human society in SSY. So better for the Queerats to emulate historical human society than the human society in SSY, imo.
Well I think the misunderstanding came from the fact that when I said what I feel the queer rats are emulating.

Keep in mind we heard Yakomaru mention democracy but we actually haven't seen that at work. The only thing we have seen is again the way society has advanced from a technological stand point (including these weapons of mass destruction) and turning the queen into a baby factory.

Anyways when I said the humans the queer rats are emulating I didn't mean any specific human society but humanity as a whole. I personally don't necessarily have such a bleak view of humanity but I do see a dark side of humanity that is repeating itself within the queer rats. Being human isn't bad per say but that doesn't mean becoming more human has to be something good.




Quote:
You could well be right, but I honestly hope you're wrong. I have little interest in seeing some bleak, pointless tragedy unfold that would make even Gen Urobuchi blush. I'd rather think there's a theme to this work that points to what it truly means to be human, and so the queer rats are now eclipsing humans due to how humans have lost sight of that while queer rats are embracing it.
I am not necessarily saying the story won't have any hope at the end somewhere there within the tragedy I am just saying I don't see it as a what it means to be human conflict more of a history repeating itself. I also have a specific theory of what the queer rats really are but as it's not proven I can't exactly bring it into the debate. So it's just that we are disagreeing more on where the story is headed.
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Old 2013-02-03, 14:21   Link #64
kuromitsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I have watched it. What's your point?
In that case I'm sure you haven't missed all its discussion of democracy, the relative merits thereof, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
So what do you suggest he do? Just tell his people to stand still, or do whatever they want, and wait to be slaughtered? Sure the odds are horribly against them, but taking the fight to the humans is probably their best bet for eventually winning this war.
You keep talking about "taking the fight to the humans" - you do realize that Squealer started the conflict with the humans, right? If he hadn't arranged the annihilation of Kiroumaru's colony (the force of his most powerful political enemy, also loyal to humans) behind the humans' back, they wouldn't have decided to wipe them out. Squealer has been leading his colony/alliance for more than 12 years, he knew the consequences of his actions. He planned for things to come to this point.

Sure, he has few choices now. But it's not like he's a victim of the circumstances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I don't see anything that happened in this episode that is incompatible with what Yakomaru has already stated pertaining to the ideals that his people ostensibly adhere to. You can't have individual rights if you don't deal with more powerful beings that are oppressing you. That's pretty obvious, if you ask me. At worst, it's an exception that proves the rule.
"Kiroumaru leads a colony that clings its old despicable ways, they are capable of sinking so low as to murder their own to deceive the gods. They treat soldiers as pawns to be sacrificed. So unlike us! We are fundamentally different, because we are a democracy where every single one of us is regarded as a unique individual with equal rights."

In the meanwhile... he cooks up a ruse where members of his own allies are murdered in order to deceive the "gods," treats soldiers as pawns to be sacrificed... oh yes, and their queens are so unique individuals with equal rights that they have been turned into lobotomized baby machines. Oh, and his allience includes former colonies that have been annexed by force... Is it just me or is there a tiny bit of hypocrisy here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Even if so, a viewer could conceivably find one side more sympathetic than the other.
Sure. I just think it's important to keep the context in mind.

ETA: for what it's worth, I'm not saying that the way the bakenezumi are oppressed is right. I'm also not saying that they shouldn't fight for their rights. I'm only saying that neither side is "better" than the other, and that, in my personal opinion, Squealer is not exactly a heroic freedom fighter who nobly leads his people into battle for Democracy and Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité. And that in my personal opinion, someone can fight for the rights of his people and still be a repulsive individual.

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-02-03 at 14:45.
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Old 2013-02-03, 14:41   Link #65
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Democracy is a political tool to keep the plebians in line. As political tools for that purpose, there are far worse, but the fact that actual rational adults believe in all the fluffy fairy-talk when it comes to what democracy is, simply proves how effective the idea of seeming inclusion is when it comes to a method of rule.

Individuals who want power came to realize that it's easier to keep the rabble in line with high-ideals and seeming inclusion, than tight-fisted authoritarianism and hang-em-all attitude.

I'm not arguing for, or against it. I'm of the mind that most people, including me, really don't give two shits what form of government exists when the chips are on the table (as opposed to sitting in the comforts of our modern societies that let us live in ways most of human history wouldn't be able to imagine, as we sip our wine and make high-minded remarks about things on the internet), as long as we get to live our lives below a certain stress level. I do think, of the varied methods of ruling people, democracy has a lot of positives, in that I suspect the stress relief valve on the system is far higher than most other political systems (ie: the point where the people say enough is enough and go about overthrowing things). The major downside is that the illusion of inclusion makes for a poor government when something requires a quick response.

Also, while I love Legends of Galactic Heroes, it still managed to retain a bit of naive idealism, despite everything it did to shed a cynical light on the interweaving of politics and society. Nothing particularly wrong with that, but I've often wondered what kind of show it'd have been if it had gone all in on laying out how things (can) work.

Lastly, I don't think the purpose of this show is to judge democracy. The rats are obviously an allegory for humanity (an Animal Farm for our times? ), for the purpose of the viewer, so it makes plenty of sense that they'd bring democracy into it. I thought it incredibly amusing (and ironic) when Saki made her remarks about how they shouldn't judge the rats by human ethics/morality.

I don't really buy into the idea of species-level self-flagellation, myself, so if the intent of the show (or anything else) is to make me sit in self-reflection and /wrist over the state of humanity, I chuckle and enjoy the story, and move on.

I see the story ending in one of two ways (if I'm wrong, please don't tell me via pm):

1) Going all in and ending with the rats as the dominant life form on the planet. As Saki is narrating this story, from what is presumably the "future", this seems unlikely, though if the author had a personality like mine, this entire story would be the result of Saki as a slave to the rat kingdom, in a state of near-catatonic shock, thinking back to her happier times.
2) Taking a more idealistic approach of a more balance partnership between humans, rats, and human's approach to their "power", resulting in a new world that probably doesn't answer any of the zillions of questions of how it would work, but at least ends on an upper, rather than a downer.

I'd prefer #1. However, no matter how tragic a story, it usually doesn't earn all sorts of awards and gain mass appeal, like this one apparently has done, if it ends in such a depressing way, so I'm guessing some sort of bloody immediate future is going to result in both the humans and rats to self-reflect and realize the status quo can not work any longer (putting aside whether it can or not from the viewer's perspective).
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Old 2013-02-03, 14:56   Link #66
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This is getting very off-topic so I'll just leave this here--

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Originally Posted by creb View Post
Lastly, I don't think the purpose of this show is to judge democracy.
It's not the purpose of the show to either judge or discuss democracy...

I admit I was a bit surprised to see how some people reacted to the show bringing it up (especially with the context it did so), although I guess I shouldn't have been. But frankly, it's made into a bigger deal here than it's supposed to be.
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Old 2013-02-03, 15:24   Link #67
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
In that case I'm sure you haven't missed all its discussion of democracy, the relative merits thereof, etc...
I'm certainly not saying that democracy is perfect, or even close to perfect, but given what the Queerats were like when we first met them in this anime...

The Queerat living area we most recently saw (the one that Yakomaru showcased to Saki and Satoru just prior to the most recent time-skip) struck me as being considerably more advanced and comfortable than the Queerat living area we saw way back in Episode 4 or so.

So I don't think it's just their weapons that are improving. If I did think that, my view on the Queerats would be a bit more cynical, and closer to Kirarakim's.


Quote:
You keep talking about "taking the fight to the humans" - you do realize that Squealer started the conflict with the humans, right? If he hadn't arranged the annihilation of Kiroumaru's colony (the force of his most powerful political enemy, also loyal to humans) behind the humans' back, they wouldn't have decided to wipe them out.
Ok, here might be the crux of our disagreement.

When Yakomaru and Kiroumaru both met with the humans an episode ago, my impression was that the humans were making it clear that they weren't taking sides in the obviously brewing Queerat War because they found Yakomaru's story vaguely possible. Basically, I thought that the humans were proclaiming neutrality on Yakomaru's group vs. Kiroumaru's group. Otherwise, why not get directly involved in the war,
Satoru-style?


Quote:
Sure, he has few choices now. But it's not like he's a victim of the circumstances.
I do think that Yakomaru wants war with the humans, yes. Nonetheless, the humans had their chance to pick sides in Yakomaru vs. Kiroumaru, and they pretty much chose to stay out of it. Even when war began, Saki was just sitting dispassionately on the sidelines next to some other guy watching it unfold like it was today's SuperBowl.


Quote:
And that in my personal opinion, someone can fight for the rights of his people and still be a repulsive individual.
Yes, I agree. Obviously a great deal of what Yakomaru does is distasteful.


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Originally Posted by creb View Post
Democracy is a political tool to keep the plebians in line. As political tools for that purpose, there are far worse, but the fact that actual rational adults believe in all the fluffy fairy-talk when it comes to what democracy is, simply proves how effective the idea of seeming inclusion is when it comes to a method of rule.

Individuals who want power came to realize that it's easier to keep the rabble in line with high-ideals and seeming inclusion, than tight-fisted authoritarianism and hang-em-all attitude.

I'm not arguing for, or against it. I'm of the mind that most people, including me, really don't give two shits what form of government exists when the chips are on the table (as opposed to sitting in the comforts of our modern societies that let us live in ways most of human history wouldn't be able to imagine, as we sip our wine and make high-minded remarks about things on the internet),
You say this sarcastically, but honestly, isn't this precisely what proves the "fluffy fairy talk" surrounding democracy to not be "fairy talk" at all, but valid assessments of it?

Yes, modern society is light years better than what we had in medieval times. And I don't think it's a coincidence that such modern societies tend to be democratic ones. In less democratic societies, people don't always get to "sit in the comforts of their modern societies that let them live in ways most of human history wouldn't be able to imagine, as they sip wine and make high-minded remarks about things on the internet".


Quote:

I see the story ending in one of two ways (if I'm wrong, please don't tell me via pm):

1) Going all in and ending with the rats as the dominant life form on the planet. As Saki is narrating this story, from what is presumably the "future", this seems unlikely, though if the author had a personality like mine, this entire story would be the result of Saki as a slave to the rat kingdom, in a state of near-catatonic shock, thinking back to her happier times.
2) Taking a more idealistic approach of a more balance partnership between humans, rats, and human's approach to their "power", resulting in a new world that probably doesn't answer any of the zillions of questions of how it would work, but at least ends on an upper, rather than a downer.

I'd prefer #1. However, no matter how tragic a story, it usually doesn't earn all sorts of awards and gain mass appeal, like this one apparently has done, if it ends in such a depressing way, so I'm guessing some sort of bloody immediate future is going to result in both the humans and rats to self-reflect and realize the status quo can not work any longer (putting aside whether it can or not from the viewer's perspective).
Honestly, I think that a total "bad end" is possible here. In fact, I'll be shocked if anything as pleasant as your No. 2 end happens, but if it does, so be it.

I'm viewing your No. 1 as the best likely end.

Part of the reason that I view your No. 2 end as unlikely is that it makes all of "future Saki's" utter doom and gloom narration seem a bit excessive.
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Old 2013-02-03, 15:31   Link #68
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I see something at least more akin to No. 1 of Creb's choices although maybe not exactly in those terms. But if it does turn out to be No. 1 then I don't think I can say that the queerrats are more righteous if they just turn around and do the same thing the humans did to them but then I do expect something like that.

As for Saki I at least hope she and Satoru will escape that fate.
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Old 2013-02-03, 16:05   Link #69
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post

As for Saki I at least hope she and Satoru will escape that fate.
I agree.

It might be nice if they can escape somehow, and maybe represent humanity "starting fresh" as it were.
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Old 2013-02-03, 16:16   Link #70
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Looking forwards to the next episode. Hopefully Squeeler will unleash his secret weapon, whatever it is, and the PKers will start dropping like flies. I know that Saki needs to survive to tell the tale, but as for the rest of them......
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Old 2013-02-03, 16:22   Link #71
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Ok, here might be the crux of our disagreement.

When Yakomaru and Kiroumaru both met with the humans an episode ago, my impression was that the humans were making it clear that they weren't taking sides in the obviously brewing Queerat War because they found Yakomaru's story vaguely possible. Basically, I thought that the humans were proclaiming neutrality on Yakomaru's group vs. Kiroumaru's group. Otherwise, why not get directly involved in the war, Satoru-style?

I do think that Yakomaru wants war with the humans, yes. Nonetheless, the humans had their chance to pick sides in Yakomaru vs. Kiroumaru, and they pretty much chose to stay out of it. Even when war began, Saki was just sitting dispassionately on the sidelines next to some other guy watching it unfold like it was today's SuperBowl.
Wait, wait, wait.

By default, humans don't meddle in colony affairs unless they feel they have to, otherwise they keep it to a minimum level. (Really, aside of using them for manual labor and such, they pretty much leave the bakenezumi alone. Sure, there is oppression in the form of having to obey humans who have power over them and can kill them if they see fit, but otherwise they're relatively autonomous.) As Saki said, even if the bakenezumi have to submit forms for surprise ambushes and the like, the humans won't tell the other side about it because it's not their concern. They keep tabs on bakenezumi in order to know how many of them are there, what they are up to, etc., this where Saki's and Inui's departments come into the picture.

In this particular case, the problem was an unannounced attack on a colony belonging to Kiroumaru's colony cluster that is the main labor force provider for humans. This is why it was brought before the council. As Satoru said, this was a breach of rules, that points toward a disrespectful attitude toward humans and a potentially dangerous behavior, and it also affected humans more directly as an attack on their labor force. But since the situation wasn't entirely clear, Kiroumaru and Yakomaru were called in to testify. Since Yakomaru was so good at lying they had to adjourn the meeting without deciding who was at fault. Instead they decided to let the bakenezumi fight it out among themselves. Saki and Inui weren't there for sightseeing, they were there to observe the battle. (If you remember, Saki's boss also went to observe another battle.) And then the rest of the story happened.

After everything was done and Kiroumaru's forces were wiped out, it became obvious that 1) the whole conflict between the two small colonies was just a ruse 2) whose aim was to destroy Kiroumaru's forces, 3) and the one behind it was Yakomaru who deceived humans and lied into the council's face, 4) oh and he also has some sort of superweapon.

At this point, human intervention against Yakomaru's alliance was guaranteed. And there's no way in hell Yakomaru didn't know that this would happen.

So it's not that the bakenezumi were just minding their own business, warring among each other, and the humans unfairly decided to intervene and punish a colony for whatever reason, and the poor things are now fighting for their lives... Yakomaru basically provoked a war with humans while at the same time he dealt with a very powerful potential enemy (Kiroumaru).

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2013-02-03 at 16:47.
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Old 2013-02-03, 17:05   Link #72
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1) Going all in and ending with the rats as the dominant life form on the planet. As Saki is narrating this story, from what is presumably the "future", this seems unlikely, though if the author had a personality like mine, this entire story would be the result of Saki as a slave to the rat kingdom, in a state of near-catatonic shock, thinking back to her happier times.
I cursed the series if this happens...

I choose number 2. Peace is still the best, in a child's view point.
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Old 2013-02-03, 17:06   Link #73
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Yakomaru basically provoked a war with humans while at the same time he dealt with a very powerful potential enemy (Kiroumaru).
Definitely.

I do wonder about the background, and I can't help but think that it all goes back to the tarantula colony early on. We still don't know why they invaded (or why they captured rather than killed Saki and Satoru). My hunch is that they had a plan that would have challanged the status quo, which Kiroumaru didn't like (since he liked his top-rat position), but which sounded nice to Squealer (since he didn't like his bottom-rat position).

At this point, I'd like to mention Saki's introductory narration, which amounted to "silly us; we thought we had nothing to fear". This is a society of cantus users who function on a very tight margin of social control. See the reaction Yakomaru already elicited from Tomiko?

The rats attacked the festival for a reason, I'm sure. We might be looking at psychological warfare of the worst kind. What will happen when the first of the villagers snaps? Chain reaction?

Oh, and if the rats do have a cantus user (very likely), they may be risking the same thing among themselves. No guarantee their "weapon" won't just blow up in their faces. Would they prefer a fiend or a karma demon, I wonder.
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Old 2013-02-03, 17:14   Link #74
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post

So it's not that the bakenezumi were just minding their own business, warring among each other, and the humans unfairly decided to intervene and punish a colony for whatever reason, and the poor things are now fighting for their lives... Yakomaru basically provoked a war with humans while at the same time he dealt with a very powerful potential enemy (Kiroumaru).
Ah, right. You can't war without filling out the proper forms.

I admittedly had forgotten that little detail. Yes, Yakomaru was clearly snubbing his nose at the humans.
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Old 2013-02-03, 17:15   Link #75
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
I see something at least more akin to No. 1 of Creb's choices although maybe not exactly in those terms. But if it does turn out to be No. 1 then I don't think I can say that the queerrats are more righteous if they just turn around and do the same thing the humans did to them but then I do expect something like that.

As for Saki I at least hope she and Satoru will escape that fate.
Yep. If we end up with something similar to ending 1) presented there, then it'd be exactly like kuromitsu said about this story giving a feeling of deja-vu. And it'd prove Yakomaru's hypocrisy regarding everyone in his society getting equal rights (not that it's not been proven at length already).
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Old 2013-02-03, 20:32   Link #76
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Just out of curiosity, what year was the novel written? Even when authors are writing about another time or another place, they inevitably use imagery from their own world. When Yakomaru talks about the equality and democracy of queerat society, he reminds me of Fidel Castro or Mao Zedong or Nikita Khrushchev. When the queerats who climbed the tower turned out to be wearing suicide vests, it reminded me of al-Qaeda. They do not strike me as "the good guys."

That said, individuals who would ordinarily be "good guys" can be drawn into terrorist-style acts by a leader who's charismatic enough or if they're subject to oppression beyond what they can stand. The humans remind me of the European colonial powers who dominated much of the world through the 19th and 20th centuries, and who the Japanese tried to imitate in the years between the world wars.

Spoiler for Don't know if venturing into this territory is allowed here, so...:


The humans carry the seeds of their own destruction. They're all too aware of the obvious one - Cantus without appropriate mental conditioning - but they're blind to their imperialist arrogance toward the queerats.

And as for the queerats, they need a Ghandi, not a bin Laden. Somehow, though, I don't think they're going to get one.
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Old 2013-02-03, 21:07   Link #77
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I guess inui's team is dead like hiromi
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Old 2013-02-03, 22:08   Link #78
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Originally Posted by Rosalena View Post
There's really no need to react so seriously to what are obviously facetious remarks. It's only an anime. Kazu-kun and Dark Wing are allowed to voice their thoughts even if you don't agree with them.

I, however, am inclined to agree with them to a certain extent. I think the show is setting up for a massive revolution. Whether this will be an overhaul of how their world is actually run or just a change in how they think remains to be seen, but I don't imagine that either will happen without loss of life.
Maybe I'm a bit too serious but I just don't like when other people say casually that someone should just die because they don't like him.
I've never said that they can't say their opinions, I only said that I don't agree with them.
I am allowed to voice my thoughts, right?

The second part of your post is kind of irrelevant to the issue here.
It's not about "what will happen next" but "what do you think about what will happen next".
Just because people are going to die doesn't mean that we should cheer for their death.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
That being said, the human society in SSY is far from innocent here. And, in the current war with Yakomaru's group, the humans are the aggressors. Remember, Tomiko sent out the order to have Yakomaru's group completely wiped out before Yakomaru's group attempted any attacks on the humans. That's rather extreme, and reminds me of those same "some guys in our history" that you're probably thinking of.

Really, Yakomaru's group is now just defending itself. It's kill or be killed now, the humans have given the Queerats no other choice.
How could the queerats organize such an efficient counter-attack within such a short amount of time? Clearly they had prepared for this.
And as many people above already said, Yakomaru provoked the human to wage war against him.
Everything happened is "keikaku doori".
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Old 2013-02-03, 22:12   Link #79
Kazu-kun
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitenma View Post
Just because people are going to die doesn't mean that we should cheer for their death.
It doesn't mean we shouldn't either. It's a personal opinion.
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Old 2013-02-03, 23:22   Link #80
Dark Wing
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Join Date: May 2007
Age: 28
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Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy View Post
Just out of curiosity, what year was the novel written?
I looked it up and Novel was published back in 2008 if that helps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitenma View Post
Just because people are going to die doesn't mean that we should cheer for their death.
Okay I'd like to clarify cheering for the death of all the entire village. I'm just saying it is a necessary that needs to be done to wipe the slate clean.
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