AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-02-03, 18:05   Link #381
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I always enjoy reading your postings on the poems used in this show, hyperborealis. Thank you for bringing us these contextual details that would otherwise be lost to non-Japanese speakers like me.

Sorry I can't give you rep any more.



I'm often struck by the emphasis on luck in anime. Again, as a foreigner, I have drawn the conclusion that luck is viewed as a larger force in one's life by the Japanese than it is here in America where the Horatio Alger myth still retains a lot of power. (You can see it in our political discourse where the right stresses individual achievement while the left stresses the role of community.) Perhaps it has something to do with the Japanese having lived in a highly-stratified society over many centuries, where the luck involved in being born of low or high station determined your lot in life? America is also a stratified society (in economic terms, one of the most compared to other OECD members), but the notion that anyone can succeed through talent and determination remains a dominant cultural theme. This is all just speculation on my part, but I am intrigued by how often even intelligent characters like Harada-sensei attribute outcomes to luck as much as, or even more than, skill.
Rethinking it... I don't know what the Japanese believe, but there is a beautiful message in the latest ep regardless. Taichi's luck remained bad to the last (with his card not getting read), but he overcame it through his skill.

Then again, considering how much more experienced he is, it was a lot closer than it should have been in the first place.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 18:09   Link #382
Arya
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
That reminds me. Back when Nishida defeated Taichi and Taichi blamed it on luck - we all agreed it was a low point for him. But he eventually concluded that he lost because he lacked the skill to not win earlier. And all was made better For the more forgiving of us, anyway.

Now, all the women that came with Harada blamed bad luck. And even Harada said that Taichi's refusal to blame luck was holding him back.

So what are we supposed to think?
Nice observation Anh_Minh, the focus on luck in this episode felt a bit off, or better, confusing. I didn't get what the message was. At first it seemed that Taichi does has skills, but bad luck always gets in the way. But the luck factor felt a bit weak, to me. Now that you reminded me about that match I know why I felt like that.
I agree with Kirarakim, he needs self confidence, he has to believe in himself. But it's not a matter of real skills or talent. I mean, Taichi's path, as Taichi and Karuta relationship, is not the same as Chihaya and Arata. Honestly I think that Taichi will never win against Chihaya. And don't even start talking about his nemesis, Arata.
If we talk about Taichi it is always about his inner development/personal growth and less about the game. But even strictly game wise, luck is important as a catalyst for regaining or smashing your self-confidence. If having self-confidence is not a major factor in the long run, the lack of it could make you lose against everyone. So luck surely would let him play at his best, whatever his best is.
On the other hand I would say that self-confidence is directly proportional to your skills, usually. But talking about Taichi it is understandable he is not, let alone his skills
__________________

The meaning of things lies not in the things themselves, but in our attitude towards them.
Arya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 18:15   Link #383
Kazu-kun
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya View Post
But it's not a matter of real skills or talent. I mean, Taichi's path, as Taichi and Karuta relationship, is not the same as Chihaya and Arata. Honestly I think that Taichi will never win against Chihaya. And don't even start talking about his nemesis, Arata.
I wouldn't assume that much about Taichi's skills and talents. The problem with his lack of confidence is that it undermines his talent. It doesn't mean he lacks talent. All the opposite, he might end up being even stronger than Arata and Chihaya if he manage to keep a tight rein on his psychological weakness and unleash his full potential.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic39230_3.gif
Kazu-kun is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 18:19   Link #384
Kirarakim
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya View Post
Honestly I think that Taichi will never win against Chihaya. And don't even start talking about his nemesis, Arata.
Didn't he technically already beat Chihaya during that match when the cards were turned around?

I actually don't necessarily agree that Taichi isn't on the same path as Chihaya & Arata, although he might not be there just yet.

I even said today that my perfect ending would be a Taichi VS Arata Meijin finale with the loser ending up with Chihaya. Of course that's just my wishful thinking where all 3 of them end up with some personal fulfillment in the end (it admittedly doesn't take into account other characters that are involved).
__________________
Kirarakim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 18:43   Link #385
Arya
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I wouldn't assume that much about Taichi's skills and talents. The problem with his lack of confidence is that it undermines his talent. It doesn't mean he lacks talent. All the opposite, he might end up being even stronger than Arata and Chihaya if he manage to keep a tight rein on his psychological weakness and unleash his full potential.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Didn't he technically already beat Chihaya during that match when the cards were turned around?

I actually don't necessarily agree that Taichi isn't on the same path as Chihaya & Arata, although he might not be there just yet.
They altered the rules in his favor. That doesn't count
I know that everything could still happen, but from what I got til now from the show, I can't see that happen. But probably, thinking again, you are both right, it's just that I wouldn't find it fitting with Taichi's development as a Karuta player. Counting even that every talented player has been a young one and not a late one, mixing it with Taichi's whole development... I don't know, it would be OOC somehow. Wouldn't it feel a bit shounen-like?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
I even said today that my perfect ending would be a Taichi VS Arata Meijin finale with the loser ending up with Chihaya. Of course that's just my wishful thinking where all 3 of them end up with some personal fulfillment in the end (it admittedly doesn't take into account other characters that are involved).
eheh that would be my perfect ending too, but if that's what will happen I think it should be something really similar to the queen finale match of the previous season, if you get what I mean.
But for now I think that whatever taichi gains will be from his personal growth. And nothing more. That sounds really oddly sad, because in real world it would be the best win, but since we are in the Karuta world ...
__________________

The meaning of things lies not in the things themselves, but in our attitude towards them.
Arya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 18:56   Link #386
Kirarakim
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya View Post
eheh that would be my perfect ending too, but if that's what will happen I think it should be something really similar to the queen finale match of the previous season, if you get what I mean.
But for now I think that whatever taichi gains will be from his personal growth. And nothing more. That sounds really oddly sad, because in real world it would be the best win, but since we are in the Karuta world ...
I understand what you are saying and in one sense I do think personal growth is ultimately more important than winning.

But wouldn't a final match between Arata/Taichi be poetic with Chihaya playing in the queen match. I think that would actually bring everything full circle, having the 3 of them playing Karuta together.

I think ultimately we expect Chihaya to win her queen match in the end. It's more about the journey getting there. But an Arata/Taichi match where we don't know who will win would be such a great match. Obviously Taichi has to get stronger then he is now to play with confidence against Arata, but I think he can before the end.

Also I think Arata would truly love a game against a strong Taichi more than anything. We've seen friends play against each other, but I think that would be a really special match with them both giving their all to the game.

That would be my perfect ending. And I only say I want Chihaya to end up with the loser not because I see her as a consolation prize but it would lead to some happiness & fulfillment for everyone.
__________________
Kirarakim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 19:09   Link #387
Kazu-kun
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya View Post
I know that everything could still happen, but from what I got til now from the show, I can't see that happen. But probably, thinking again, you are both right, it's just that I wouldn't find it fitting with Taichi's development as a Karuta player. Counting even that every talented player has been a young one and not a late one, mixing it with Taichi's whole development... I don't know, it would be OOC somehow. Wouldn't it feel a bit shounen-like?
Yes, and this series does have a bit of shounen to it, and it'll probably get even more like that as the characters become stronger. Besides, it seems like you're working on the mistaken assumption that Arata is really talented. Truth is, he doesn't have neither Chihaya's enhanced hearing nor her reaction time, and he doesn't even have Taichi's memory. What he's got are some techniques that help him overcome what he lacks on talent, and it wouldn't take much for Taichi to pick up on this if he wasn't beating himself to death assuming he's untalented and weak all the time. Arata's strength comes from his self-confidence, which is exactly what Taichi currently lacks (and this probably isn't a coincidence).

Let's just wait and see.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic39230_3.gif
Kazu-kun is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 19:18   Link #388
HandofFate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
In the upper tiers of Kurata.
Is there any money in winning a Queen or King match?
Or is it just regular competitions and its not a "Pro" world like say Go or something.
__________________
...
HandofFate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 19:19   Link #389
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
The refrains of "oh, what terrible luck" in this episode certainly came across as strangely hollow. Bad luck happens to everybody, it's simply part of the landscape of the game. Even if an observation 'that player had terrible luck' was true, there would be no reason to begin pitying or making excuses for them; rather, the point of playing such luck-based games in the first place should be to become strong enough to overcome even such situations.

Taichi's problem was not bad luck, but rather how he reacted to unlucky situations. If, as Dr. Harada said, Taichi allowed one or two little instances of bad luck to convince himself that he had no talent, it would be his self-defeating attitude which kept him from winning. Accepting that luck exists as an influential factor is part of the learning process of games like karuta (and mahjong, haha), versus games of deterministic progression/perfect knowledge like go or chess. Maintaining the optimism and determination to keep trying despite unfavourable circumstances is thus one of the most important things you could learn by becoming better at them.
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 30/5 :: Locodol 30/5 :: Yama no Susume 60/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game
Sol Falling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 19:21   Link #390
Kirarakim
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandofFate View Post
In the upper tiers of Kurata.
Is there any money in winning a Queen or King match?
Or is it just regular competitions and its not a "Pro" world like say Go or something.
I don't think there is any money involved. I am pretty sure you can't make a career out of being a Karuta player like you can out of being a Go player.
__________________
Kirarakim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 19:30   Link #391
Arya
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
I understand what you are saying and in one sense I do think personal growth is ultimately more important than winning.

But wouldn't a final match between Arata/Taichi be poetic with Chihaya playing in the queen match. I think that would actually bring everything full circle, having the 3 of them playing Karuta together.

I think ultimately we expect Chihaya to win her queen match in the end. It's more about the journey getting there. But an Arata/Taichi match where we don't know who will win would be such a great match. Obviously Taichi has to get stronger then he is now to play with confidence against Arata, but I think he can before the end.

Also I think Arata would truly love a game against a strong Taichi more than anything. We've seen friends play against each other, but I think that would be a really special match with them both giving their all to the game.

That would be my perfect ending. And I only say I want Chihaya to end up with the loser not because I see her as a consolation prize but it would lead to some happiness & fulfillment for everyone.
For that reason I said that, rethinking about it, probably that is how things will end. But, for now, I can't see him growing so much as a player in relation to Arata and Chihaya's growing. I still see them as two different leagues, two different worlds. But I fully see your big picture and it makes sense. And I like it even if I can't feel it for now.

About the perfect ending and who ends up with who, I have a slightly different reason, not for consolation prize nor for a happy ending, but because that would mean that a MC doesn't have to win to be loved, since love is not a race.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Yes, and this series does have a bit of shounen to it, and it'll probably get even more like that as the characters become stronger. Besides, it seems like you're working on the mistaken assumption that Arata is really talented. Truth is, he doesn't have neither Chihaya's enhanced hearing nor her reaction time, and he doesn't even have Taichi's memory. What he's got are some techniques that help him overcome what he lacks on talent, and it wouldn't take much for Taichi to pick up on this if he wasn't beating himself to death assuming he's untalented and weak all the time. Arata's strength comes from his self-confidence, which is exactly what Taichi currently lacks (and this probably isn't a coincidence).

Let's just wait and see.
Good point. I do am assuming that Arata is really skilled. And the fact that we barely saw him in 30 episodes surely made me think, through Chihaya and Taichi's views of him, and as of late from the queen reaction, that he really is. So, as you said, let's wait and see.
__________________

The meaning of things lies not in the things themselves, but in our attitude towards them.
Arya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 20:01   Link #392
Kirarakim
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya View Post
Good point. I do am assuming that Arata is really skilled. And the fact that we barely saw him in 30 episodes surely made me think, through Chihaya and Taichi's views of him, and as of late from the queen reaction, that he really is. So, as you said, let's wait and see.
I actually do think Arata is really strong. Even if he wins by tricks he has come up with that is still winning. However you win: by memory of the cards, by reflexes, or by clever tricks that to me is all a part of skill.

Arata also has played and loved the game since he was a small child & and he was inspired by his grandfather. All of this makes him very powerful.

That being said we know Arata can lose as he has lost since the flash forward. He's certainly not unbeatable.

I think our strongest impression of Arata is when we saw him play as a child. This was through Chihaya's eyes a complete beginner so in that sense Arata's skills were even more amazing. Even to most of us who knew nothing about Karutra, Arata's skills will be enhanced in this situation.

Although that being said I don't think it matters whether Chihaya, Arata, or Taichi are stronger. Can't they all be strong in different ways? And perhaps you can lose one game against an opponent but play again and win.
__________________
Kirarakim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 20:06   Link #393
Dop
We can't stop here...
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
The thing about Arata, I think, is that while he's a strong player, he's not as strong a player as he would have been had he not had several years out of the game due to feeling guilty after his grandfather died when he was away at a match. I think he still has to build up to as high a level as he should have been.
Dop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 20:17   Link #394
Kirarakim
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dop View Post
The thing about Arata, I think, is that while he's a strong player, he's not as strong a player as he would have been had he not had several years out of the game due to feeling guilty after his grandfather died when he was away at a match. I think he still has to build up to as high a level as he should have been.
I thought it was only a year or a year and a half that he stopped playing. That being said I am sure it did effect him to some degree.
__________________
Kirarakim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 21:06   Link #395
SeijiSensei
AS Oji-kun
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mucking about
Age: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Accepting that luck exists as an influential factor is part of the learning process of games like karuta (and mahjong, haha), versus games of deterministic progression/perfect knowledge like go or chess.
That can be true in the short-run, but over a longer span of contests those kind of probabilistic variations average out. In a single-elimination event like these karuta matches, a player might be advantaged by a string of "lucky" outcomes and win. In athletic competitions where one-and-done is the rule (tennis, college basketball, etc.), the more talented team also does not always win. Statisticians who have looked at baseball believe that even a seven-game World Series is too short to identify the "correct" winner when the competitors are closely matched. Professional card players do not rely on "luck," either. Over a career of many thousands of hands, the probabilities even out leaving skill as the true determinant of success.
__________________
SeijiSensei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 22:04   Link #396
Master_Yoma
Nekokota Festival
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lost in the Fairy Forest
Wow Taichi getting a towel from every girl in the place
__________________
Master_Yoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 22:50   Link #397
HandofFate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Yoma View Post
Wow Taichi getting a towel from every girl in the place
i hold some suspicion that they were not towels and actually something else of the feminine attire.
__________________
...
HandofFate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 22:57   Link #398
sikvod00
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Homestead, FL
Age: 27
That's the ultimate sign of Taichi's player potential: wiping your sweat with women's panties!

It can be easy to get jealous of Taichi's superficial popularity with women (as demonstrated by the guys in the room) until you realize just how meaningless that "gift" is to him. Taichi has Chihaya on the brain 24/7. That's why his remarks to Sumire in the season's debut is so admirable. He is following his heart; the girl he loves means more than the dozens of fan-girls he could take advantage of. And trust me, there are plenty of guys in his situation who would be messing around in loveless relationships just because they can. Taichi has taken the harder route of pursuing a dense girl like Chihaya, despite all the odds against him. Truly admirable.

Last edited by sikvod00; 2013-02-03 at 23:16.
sikvod00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-03, 23:53   Link #399
SeijiSensei
AS Oji-kun
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mucking about
Age: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by sikvod00 View Post
That's the ultimate sign of Taichi's player potential: wiping your sweat with women's panties!
Is there any evidence that Japanese girls and women carry extra sets of panties to throw at boys or men they find attractive? I'm just curious if there is even a hint of reality to this notion, or if it is a fantasy kindled by watching too many ecchi anime comedies from male directors and male writers that target an audience of horny young men?

(Yes, I know about the vending machines. That's hardly equivalent, though.)
__________________
SeijiSensei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-04, 02:11   Link #400
GundamZZ
残念美人
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Is there any evidence that Japanese girls and women carry extra sets of panties to throw at boys or men they find attractive? I'm just curious if there is even a hint of reality to this notion, or if it is a fantasy kindled by watching too many ecchi anime comedies from male directors and male writers that target an audience of horny young men?

(Yes, I know about the vending machines. That's hardly equivalent, though.)
Well, the proper way of wearing kimono is not wearing any underwear. There was a story from long time ago. Some geisha were performing in a high rise building. The building had a fire hazard. The geisha were killed. They wore kimono in the traditional way. If they used the fire escape route, the crowd underneath the building could see their privates. As girls raised in the conservative environment, they felt too ashamed to make the escape. So, they were killed by the fire hazard.
Wait a minute!
Aren't we off-topic!
It is typical for girls having handkerchief with them. It is just showing Taichi's attractiveness, but he chooses Chihaya. About Arata's cell phone, it doesn't seem the staffs care to explain about it. Maybe it will attract viewers to buy manga. The manga has a quick and clear explanation.
__________________
流麗のヒステリア Hysteria of flowing beautifully
三つ腕のリヒティ Lichty of three arms
重剣のクロエ Chloe of giant sword
天啓のシスティーナ Sistina of Apocalypse
愛憎のロクサーヌ Roxanne of distinguished love and hate
万有のルテーシア Lutécia of everything
塵喰いのカサンドラ Cassandra of eating dust
GundamZZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cards, josei, sports

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.