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Old 2013-02-03, 06:29   Link #161
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Before I reply, I should say I haven't played the game, but some of the replies I've read on the Episode 17 thread prompted me to check this thread out to see what differences there might be between the Haruka anime arc and the Haruka route in the game.
I surely think you should have used VM or PM for that, because you are at a very high risk to spoil yourself beyond what you would want but well
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As an anime-only viewer, I have to say that I disagree with this pretty strongly. That was one hell of a cliffhanger, and I wouldn't have it any other way. It has me very eagerly anticipating the next LB! episode in a way that I haven't anticipated any other LB! episode. And that scene might be the most impacting scene I've seen in Little Busters yet. It was just such a WHAM! moment that shouted "You thought you had Kanata and the Haruka/Kanata sibling rivalry figured out? Well THINK AGAIN!"

I thought it was an awesome scene. That being said...
That's exactly the problem though: beyond being a simple shocker, that cliffhanger has little to no purpose whatsoever, exactly because the anime just skipped through the developments and everything that Kanata was trying to do. What's worse is that they painted her in a more vicious way with a blunt "do you love me?" despite she was never interested in Riki to begin with, and the "steal" Riki's heart was not even in the plan.
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Well, two things here...

1) In retrospect, I took it as Kanata being shocked that Haruka had already baked some food for Riki. Kanata then asks Riki if he likes "her" to determine if Haruka has already established herself as Riki's girlfriend.
The problem is that: that is -not- a shocking revelation whatsoever. Haruka was suppose to cook times to times, even if it turns into failure. It really isn't because she is trying something like that it is shocking.

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2) While watching that specific moment when the plate was dropped, I honestly was (for a couple seconds) expecting Haruka to go "So... you were lying to me before. You didn't really like the food I baked for you before did you? So how can I trust what you and the Little Busters said to me yesterday? How can I know that you're just pitying me, huh?!" And then for Haruka to run off in tears with Riki flailing to try to explain himself.
Actually, it doesn't make sense with what Kanata tried afterwards, otherwise she would actually play the victim right afterwards, and even so it doesn't make much sense in the larger scope of the situation there.
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That expectation took hold in my mind very quickly... which made the Kanata reveal feel even more like the ultimate curveball to me.
Kanata is really not a curve ball, as the hints are already established regarding her true purpose.
However, for whatever reason, they felt that Kanata wasn't mean enough during the confrontation part and made her go over the limit.
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Old 2013-02-03, 06:29   Link #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Before I reply, I should say I haven't played the game, but some of the replies I've read on the Episode 17 thread prompted me to check this thread out to see what differences there might be between the Haruka anime arc and the Haruka route in the game.




As an anime-only viewer, I have to say that I disagree with this pretty strongly. That was one hell of a cliffhanger, and I wouldn't have it any other way. It has me very eagerly anticipating the next LB! episode in a way that I haven't anticipated any other LB! episode. And that scene might be the most impacting scene I've seen in Little Busters yet. It was just such a WHAM! moment that shouted "You thought you had Kanata and the Haruka/Kanata sibling rivalry figured out? Well THINK AGAIN!"

I thought it was an awesome scene. That being said...




Well, two things here...

1) In retrospect, I took it as Kanata being shocked that Haruka had already baked some food for Riki. Kanata then asks Riki if he likes "her" to determine if Haruka has already established herself as Riki's girlfriend.

2) While watching that specific moment when the plate was dropped, I honestly was (for a couple seconds) expecting Haruka to go "So... you were lying to me before. You didn't really like the food I baked for you before did you? So how can I trust what you and the Little Busters said to me yesterday? How can I know that you're not just pitying me, huh?!" And then for Haruka to run off in tears with Riki flailing to try to explain himself.

That expectation took hold in my mind very quickly... which made the Kanata reveal feel even more like the ultimate curveball to me.
I'm really glad you liked it, Triple R. I agree in saying it holds a little more of a cold water shock than building up to it with many subtle hints.

And yes please don't venture far in this thread or you will find nasty unmarked spoilers! I know you know this, but I'm just saying, there are some very juicy bits the anime hasn't got to yet...
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
No, considering how Suzuki voiced that line, Kanata was shocked to learn that Haruka tried a chiffon cake before, which is the one thing that doesn't make sense at all.
With that premise, I cannot think of an explanation...
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Old 2013-02-03, 06:42   Link #163
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Okay, let's see what they missed with Kanata for the last 2 episodes:

1) they watered down her reactions regarding the flyers

2) they skipped that scene where Kanata confronts Haruka if the latter was the one who told people she was Kanata's sister. This is important because not only it shows that it is actually more detrimental to Haruka than Kanata, but also that Kanata was on the verge of dropping the hardass pretense, nearly calling her with Haruka's name

3) Kanata's comment that Haruka is going to self destruction at this rate, and as result that "she isn't chasing out Haruka for the sake of destroy her, but to the contrary, preventing her to break".

4) Likewise, the "inhuman" part is also dropped fully, which also prevents people to understand why she doesn't really like Riki and the rest that much (mention that "Riki is inhuman as well").

5) Skipping the part where Haruka is trying hard to recover documents about her birth, which could have been done even better in the anime since the LB is complete as a group, despite in the VN route, only Riki was helping her.

6) The most important point: they screwed Kanata's impersonation attempt, as she was trying to make Riki GIVE UP on finding the truth. People will think she was trying to steal Riki, but that's the complete opposite: she wanted to make him stop digging further in the Saigusa/Futaki business because Haruka's current state is not going to cut it: regardless what is the truth, it will damage Haruka even more, explaining why her parents and Shou wanted to statu quo.

Really, they screwed so much I can't believe they call themselves "caring for the details".
Sure, the route felt utterly slow with characters beating around the bush several times (especially Haruka's parents), but that was actually required to have a further understanding why knowing the truth is -not- important.

The only point that they managed to convey in a timely manner was Kanata's severe injuries on her arms that Kudo could have seen even in the dark.

I surely hope they don't screw that raining scene, because that is the crux of Kanata's conflicted position before the actual revelations in the end. If they skip the "You aren't God" and "I was born a liar", I will just break a fuse.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2013-02-03 at 06:54.
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Old 2013-02-03, 09:54   Link #164
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Well, Klash, I can certainly see why you and some other VN-players are upset. The degree of divergence between anime!Kanata and game!Kanata is indeed quite massive now going by what you wrote.

In fact, the change is so great that I'm wondering if it's not a deliberate characterization shift on the part of JC Staff. In other words, perhaps we're looking at an intentional character reinterpretation. Perhaps JC Staff wants Kanata to come off as this highly colorful and embittered girl with a real mean streak towards her sister since her sister has what she wants (including a possible relationship with Riki, and the broader camaraderie within the Little Busters).

I can't say for sue if I'd prefer that or not over game!Kanata, but I can kind of see why JC Staff has taken the course they have. Honestly, anime!Kanata does sound more fun than game!Kanata given the way you describe game!Kanata. But then, game!Kanata might be more nuanced, in fairness.

Let's see how the rest of the Haruka/Kanata arc goes. And yeah, I'll probably take my leave from this thread now so I don't get spoiled, so if anybody wants to reply to me over a specific point I've made, please reply to it by PM.
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Old 2013-02-03, 12:02   Link #165
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With the foreknowledge of the outlines of Kud's route, and the insecurities that Kud holds, I think the Kanata-Haruka situation, and the collapse in relations between Kanata and the rest of Kud's friendship circle actually becomes even more acute. Actually, I have a suspicion that Kud's route may well begin very soon after Haruka's route ends, and the implications of the Haruka route, and Kanata's role in it would probably bleed over into Kud's basic insecurities of not fitting in.

From Kud's perspective, you fear you are merely being tolerated, while fully aware you stick out like a sore thumb. And now, your room-mate, whom you are friends with has gotten into a horrific dispute with the general circle of friends you managed to acquire by some miracle. I think if the director is creative enough, the Haruka route may well bring forth Kud's insecurities to the fore.

And if they are going full on friendship for Kud, I suspect that what's happening between Kanata and the rest of the Little Busters may well be a trigger for the main friendship related point in Kud's route - mainly, acceptance in a foreign country rather infamous for not accepting foreigners easily. To Kud, I think the whole situation is reminding her starkly how potentially fragile (from her viewpoint, though Riki would clearly vehemently disagree) her relationships are.

It depends on whether Kud would play an even greater Anime Original role in the Haruka route adaptation, but I think if the script is written well enough, the anime could be able to slide into the Kud route straight after the Haruka route, since Kud's awkward position in the Haruka route would gel thematically well with her insecurities.
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Old 2013-02-03, 13:55   Link #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
In fact, the change is so great that I'm wondering if it's not a deliberate characterization shift on the part of JC Staff. In other words, perhaps we're looking at an intentional character reinterpretation. Perhaps JC Staff wants Kanata to come off as this highly colorful and embittered girl with a real mean streak towards her sister since her sister has what she wants (including a possible relationship with Riki, and the broader camaraderie within the Little Busters).
Except that change does -not- make sense with Kanata's position and attempts so far. She was of course subject to envy, but even so, she put that past her in order to keep the statu quo so Haruka won't have the backlash.
And considering people reactions I've seen left and right, the majority miss the point of Kanata's position exactly because JC staff writers had the "good" idea to brush over critical scenes that would give much more nuance and actual humanity to Kanata, instead of hamfisting a sadistic nature.
Even if they at least kept the "unhappy talk" and her nostalgic talk with Kudo (and yet people didn't notice how she was brushing her hair ornament being the EXACT same as Haruka's), but was completely brushed aside with the "do you like me?" smile moment. It is just gratuitious and will lead to even more problem for the conclusion and potentially her own arc, if JC staff decides to give a go for her route.

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I can't say for sue if I'd prefer that or not over game!Kanata, but I can kind of see why JC Staff has taken the course they have. Honestly, anime!Kanata does sound more fun than game!Kanata given the way you describe game!Kanata. But then, game!Kanata might be more nuanced, in fairness.
She isn't supposed to be entertaining to watch: in fact, the pretense of being an antagonist for Haruka was supposed to be obvious, with the actual truth being noticeable and progressively dropped exactly because it is meaningless to keep up the exaggerated facade the more you go through Haruka's route.

After all her slipped hints by Kanata herself, making her trying to do something over the top as in this episode just make the whole thing -backwards-.
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Old 2013-02-04, 04:40   Link #167
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
There isn't any numerous "severe" seriousness part in the common route, but several stuff are addressed for each girl or even guys at some points. I honestly don't feel like reading everything again to make a list, that wouldn't be the most efficient way to spend my time and yours.
That being said, it is more a matter or how they execute the comedy in very prominent way that makes people think they are watching something primarily comedy or something.
It's interesting you say this because for the most part throughout Little Busters, I always got the impression that it was very light hearted, and comedic. It was only in Refrain and in the individual routes that this changed, but I think most people have noted the otnal differences in the anime as well here. Comedic isn't a bad thing IMO, it's part of what Little Busters such a fun read for me.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
. The problem right now is that Kengo has little to no involvement with the LB, be it comedy or serious stuff. Really, his screentime is close to 0, with Masato being nearly as present as the girls, which is quite a feat considering his role in there.
I certainly hope they resolve this issue with his screen time. The big problem here is his increased screen time isn't truly felt until Kengo goes super little busters mode, which hasn't happened in the anime yet for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
It wasn't only with Haruka, but that's definitely the main problem I have with "this" Masato: from the very very beginning in the VN, Masato is frankly not a fan of Haruka and hardly interact with her save very few instances. He never make a "joke" followup to hers, and often makes comments like "...you came again? what are you up to now? -_-".
Even for an open guy like Masato, he often states his displeasure towards her, even before Haruka does anything and that's in a calm and even serious way (aka pissed off). In the anime, it is more like a boke/exaggerated fashion, and undeniably less often.

It was a bit the same than with his fight against Yuiko: he was -really- pissed off to the point she is the only character, save Kengo, that he wanted to use a silly weapon to -directly- hit them. Afterwards, he considers Yuiko as a woman not to triffle with due to her skills and way to handle Rin etc, so half respec, half scared of her.
Well part of what the anime has done with his character, and others as well, is give them increased interactions. The visual novel often felt like most conversations were directed towards Riki or Rin, but the anime is trying to really make it seem more like a group. I don't think having Masato be as cold to Haruka as he is in the visual novel is a total game changer. I'll say this though, if there is one common route scene that should've been here it should've been the one where Kengo gets his uniform wrecked by Haruka.

Still I don't think the anime missed the point that Masato was genuinely angry at Yuiko and even Haruka (their fight scene), but the playful nature of the story always ensured it was still fairly comedic/light hearted.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I don't mind how they cut the chase with her route. The only problem is how they showed Haruka's resentment differently: generally speaking, Haruka doesn't hide her loath for Kanata, even if the latter wasn't after her. However in the anime, Haruka was shown persecuted/victimised, only showing her hatred starting ep 16.
To give a better point in the whole mood, I would have expected a 10 sec short scene much earlier than episode 7. Aside of Kanata issue, Haruka was, as I explained, barely introduced before episode 7, so her antics didn't feel like a "daily troublesome mess".
Well the one place the anime screwed up was pushing Komari's route in so fast. I think if Haruka was introduced sooner in the story, then this would have been possible. Granted, I think the idea that Haruka was a genuine troublemaker was still easily understood.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Actually, that's the opposite: the way they spread it out just make several interactions awkward at best. Episode 17 is a glaring example of that with Mio, Masato and Kengo "caring" about Haruka despite -they just didn't have any interaction with her-.
It is even worse when baseball practice were skipped altogether (despite being the -main catalyst- of having such group) in favor for more silly antics taking full episodes.

Frankly, I didn't expect the full common route to kick in completely before engaging the girls route. Far from it. However, other adaptations proved that having a full intro and a third of the common route is -doable-.
Clannad had a proper intro for most heroines and even some extra before tackling Fuuko's route. And as much as I think they spent 1 ep too much on Fuuko, they definitely could squeeze many casual events as well as intro, for a cast of the same caliber as LB, even if it means that ep1 was quite fast for clannad.
That's why I kept repeating that the adaptation pace is a mess, as the "general pacing" is iffy slow, but they really jump left and right regarding the girls, leading to a lessened impact in general.
Kengo I can see, but Masato did have interactions with her. There were several group scenes already (tanka poems and sleepover) where the girls and masato often interacted. So I think is greatly exaggerated.

But yes I can agree with the point about the common route, but this really only ended up hurting Komari the most since her route is the one that got pushed eraly first.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
That's my problem with Mio: exactly because her intro only started at episode 10, and due to that it has to be dragged afterwards. Episode 12 was not part of her route, exactly because the book incident happens -in every route- assuming you stumble on the correct flags.
It is exactly a common route portion since it is a scene you can get regardless of the heroine you are aiming for, and contributes to Mio's characterization (and being a device for her route much later on).

Really my biggest gripe of the adaptation, pacing/content wise was the timing of Mio's intro and Komari's route, because these 2 were completely done upside down.
Mio was also a tiny bit late of an introduction in the visual novel too if I recall though. But yeah, she probably should've been introduced before jumping into any of the girl's routes. Still even with her belated introduction, I thought her arc went quite well. They cut down on a lot of redundancy about it. It was short, sweet, and to the point.

A lot of this stuff seems to come down to the placement of Komari's arc, which I have agreed screwed up the pacing of the beginning. But I think since then, the anime has gained enough stability.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
The episode served for her arc, what I actually means is that event isn't solely for her, as it also involve the LB and whatever they do on some occasions.
Simply speaking, it is similar to Mio's book scene: it is obviously focused on a specific heroine, but it doesn't go too deeply with them and does involve other characters for various reasons.
And surely Komari's route is one of the reason why I just don't like Tonokawa's writing at all.
I get what you're saying. But even if it's common route, it's essential pieces of their individual arcs. Yeah it would be nice if we could have like 78 episodes for Little Busters to get all the stuff we wish to see, but they make do with what they can.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Right now, the adaptation is not exactly the best I could have expected, especially that some characters like Masato and Kengo are just being screwed hard, leading to complications if theykeep going this way.

OTOH, Riki is -way- too strong willed as of now. It just makes you wonder why the loops are necessary consering how reliable he was shown right from the get go (from suggesting a LB activity to other stuff).
This does remind me of one scene from Mio's route that I wish they kept, or rather one line. There are a lot of subtleties in Kyousuke's behavior and statements that are being missed in general I feel, but the scene where Riki asks Kyousuke for advice about what to do about Mio and the fact people are forgetting her... He comments that Riki is weak, and it was a particularly striking scene to me. I wish they kept that in since it would have helped send the message.

Anyhow there is one main difference between the anime and the visual novel. Every route was a loop in the visual novel, the anime has had no loops. Presumably Riki's weakness will surface up towards the end of the first loop (probably coinciding with the first season end). At least I would hope so.

Yes the adaption certainly could be better in parts (Particularly how they did Komari's route), but I keep reading comments about how JC staff completely butchered the source and that sort of hyperbole is just not productive. If people want to know what butchering a source is like they should see JC staff's Tsukihime.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Except that his "muscle muscle yay!" dance only happen when... you actually aim for the muscle sensation ending. To begin with, Masato is more like a boatsing poser like I said. The VN hardly shows any motion, unless real antics are shown. But as far as it goes, I really can't imagine Masato going panzer, and that refrain scene might look quite off as result.
*shrug*

The thing with refrain to me was how strikingly different he became (when he went violent mode especially). He really was just fooling around like a bumbling idiot the entire time. So for me, while his silliness is indeed increased a little bit, I don't think the anime's interpretation of his antics are too far off from how I personally imagined it.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Actually it is a tad more subtle than that. The anime shows rather how Yuiko can stand against Kanata, to an extent the latter has to circumvent a bit what she does, otherwise it isn't going anywhere. the scene I was talking about actually make Kanata admitting herself she shouldn't go ahead of herself all the time, and let of some "steam" a lil bit.
That being said, I guess I'm way too used with the way how the voice acting was in the VN, because the differences are glaring to me: it isn't about the length of the speech etc, but the actual tones and slightly different words as well.
I do remember that scene, and it would be nice if it was in the show so you're not wrong, but is this really so detrimental to the anime? I mean I figured the anime did want us to misunderstand Kanata's intentions from episode 16. Episode 17 then goes on to show that her position in this conflict is more complicated than initially expected. We also saw how Haruka is more hateful than we might have imagined as well.

As for the voice acting, I can't say too much.

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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
@Reckoner I think Klashikari was saying about Masato, that they didn't transfer over his true loathing of Haruka. Sure in the anime he shows moments of discontempt for her, but then in the latest episode we see him trying to cheer Haruka up and give her some marbles so that she'll feel better. Game Masato would never do that, especially since she pulled a prank that ended up ruining Kengo's kendo uniform and him blaming Masato for it until she confessed.

It becomes clear that these moments of him disliking Haruka are actually true loathing, not just joking, in her route. When Riki invites her into his dorm room to get an alarm clock so she can wake up on time, she snoops around playfully. Masato ends up getting extremely angry at her and yelling, then kicks her out the second she finds some clocks. She was trying to joke, but Masato obviously wouldn't have any of that.
His annoyance towards Haruka is certainly more pronounced in the visual novel, but it never felt to me like he actually hated her.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
6) The most important point: they screwed Kanata's impersonation attempt, as she was trying to make Riki GIVE UP on finding the truth. People will think she was trying to steal Riki, but that's the complete opposite: she wanted to make him stop digging further in the Saigusa/Futaki business because Haruka's current state is not going to cut it: regardless what is the truth, it will damage Haruka even more, explaining why her parents and Shou wanted to statu quo.
Yeah I'm personally a bit confused by their choice here. Unfortunately this route needs a 4th episode to be done well IMO.

Last edited by Reckoner; 2013-02-04 at 13:29.
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Old 2013-02-04, 11:03   Link #168
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Comedic isn't a bad thing IMO, it's part of what Little Busters such a fun read for me.
That is obviously one of the strength for LB, even more so than what was done in Clannad. I guess I'm nitpicking a bit, but I felt the comedy was shown on a pedestal, instead of just being an aspect of the series (granted, the lack of narration for Riki and "more mundane" scenes with Masato, kengo and Kyousuke due to time issues are part of that).
Suffice to say, the tone shift is just a bit more jarring in the anime exactly because the series went more on the slapstick tangent (primarily Masato's flanderized characterisation).
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I certainly hope they resolve this issue with his screen time. The big problem here is his increased screen time isn't truly felt until Kengo goes super little busters mode, which hasn't happened in the anime yet for whatever reason.
I just hope they won't skip that scene with Koshiki, as it not only triggers Kengo "LB mode", but also one of the few "very serious non heroine centred" scene of the common route. And suffice to say, that scene in refrain would not make sense without having Kengo "saving" Koshiki.
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Well the one place the anime screwed up was pushing Komari's route in so fast. I think if Haruka was introduced sooner in the story, then this would have been possible. Granted, I think the idea that Haruka was a genuine troublemaker was still easily understood.
I don't doubt that, although the extent of her antics were shown only in ep7, while she was just the "random" character among the circles of friends early on. I think if she was shown already pursed by the discipline commitee back in ep1 or ep2, that would have given the point accross immediately (like: wait, she was already abducted by the commitee, and eps later, she is AGAIN at it?).
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Kengo I can see, but Masato did have interactions with her. There were several group scenes already (tanka poems and sleepover) where the girls and masato often interacted. So I think is greatly exaggerated.

But yes I can agree with the point about the common route, but this really only ended up hurting Komari the most since her route is the one that got pushed eraly first.
The issue is more Haruka related, because frankly, save the sleepover, Mio had practicaly no discussion with Haruka to different degree. I think it wouldn't have hurt if they have shown of these few scenes were Mio basically throw the "wall" mode on Haruka, meaning she is the only one save Yuiko that is completely immune to Haruka's non sense.

This is probably leading to the major issues with the pacing: Komari's route being too early, but also events taking a lion share of screen time, whereas they skipped the most obvious stuff around: a lot of the baseball practice (I'm not even sure if people remember the LB will have to compete in a match).
It would have been vastly better if they simply cut out the unknown lifeform/test of courage episode, and shortened few episodes (such like Episode 1-3 being extremely longwinded with the flashbacks and narcolepsy/secret of the world).
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Mio was also a tiny bit late of an introduction in the visual novel too if I recall though. But yeah, she probably should've been introduced before jumping into any of the girl's routes. Still even with her belated introduction, I thought her arc went quite well. They cut down on a lot of redundancy about it. It was short, sweet, and to the point.
Mio's route was indeed correctly adapted as far as it goes regarding romance being obliterated. That said, she was introduced far earlier in the VN: she was there before Yuiko was even enrolled in the LB, so that much much earlier than it is right now. And suffice to say, it dramatically reduces the possible interactions she could have with everyone else.
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A lot of this stuff seems to come down to the placement of Komari's arc, which I have agreed screwed up the pacing of the beginning. But I think since then, the anime has gained enough stability.
I won't deny the pacing is now less on a lethargic state now that we have gone through mio, and now Haruka. Unfortunately, the damage is already done and effective, so I'm quite worried how they are going to squeeze 2 heroine routes before the end of S1.
And now that the pacing is less of a wreck, we got characters being altered for whatever reason OTZ.
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I get what you're saying. But even if it's common route, it's essential pieces of their individual arcs. Yeah it would be nice if we could have like 78 episodes for Little Busters to get all the stuff we wish to see, but they make do with what they can.
Actually, I sincerely think that 78 episodes is way too much, and that 2 seasons of 2 cours (so 26 + 26) would be plenty enough for LB. It is just a matter of what they prioritized in the timing, filling and heroines routes roadmap.
So far, I just... don't get why they made so many changes that would hurt them on the long run (Riki and Rin's "strength", Kengo's status, Kanata's changes, hints of routes done (Rin2 white clothes) despite it is "confirmed" they are downright in a loop already, etc). It is just that they don't have a real sense of continuity as far as it goes.
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Anyhow there is one main difference between the anime and the visual novel. Every route was a loop in the visual novel, the anime has had no loops. Presumably Riki's weakness will surface up towards the end of the first loop (probably coinciding with the first season end). At least I would hope so.
I initially thought it was indeed a continuous adaptation, but that's not the case as Jc Staff used the very same "waking up" scenes for Riki each time a heroine route is done (often in a silent mood without too much implication, which left some non vn reader puzzled), without revealing even a single time the DATE.

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Yes the adaption certainly could be better in parts (Particularly how they did Komari's route), but I keep reading comments about how JC staff completely butchered the source and that sort of hyperbole is just not productive. If people want to know what butchering a source is like they should see JC staff's Tsukihime.
I don't think I abused of hyperbole, but if you think I'm being too dramatic in my points given, I can't say I agree, although you can always have worse with the likes of deen. But suffice to say, I get really pissed off because the changes do not make sense for the overall scope of the plot, which is worse when the director claims they are going to approach the adaptation with utmost care... which is funny when they made the very basic adaptation mistake (which is altering characters, the one thing you hardly can, whereas plot elements such like scenes/lines can be if necessary, such like romance driven routes).
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His annoyance towards Haruka is certainly more pronounced in the visual novel, but it never felt to me like he actually hated her.
He surely doesn't hate her, that's a given. What I felt with Masato was however a very dry and sense of exhaustion, similar to Kengo, which is quite different to his usual outburst when he is "bullied" by Rin, Yuiko etc.
I mean, instead of going annoyed in a comic fashion, he always keep a very tired tone when Haruka just nags him too much, until he breaks a fuse (like the dictionary scene).
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Yeah I'm personally a bit confused by their choice here. Unfortunately this route needs a 4th episode to be done well IMO.
Yup, that route needed another episode, and I would have imagined ep16 and ep17 differently.

Episode 16
1) Haruka cooking some cakes
2) Kanata's interaction with Komari, Yuiko and Riki
3) Bench scene (can actually be linked with the former)
4) LB conforting Haruka and got a eerie impression with her parents
5) Cliffhanger on the flier incident

Episode 17:
6) Backstory
7) Kanata facing Haruka (sister mention)
8) LB helping Haruka to find out records etc
9) First twin switch
10) Facing off Shou

Episode 18 would have been
11) Twin switch 2
12) Kanata against the Saigusa
13) 2 Haruka scene then the rain scene

Episode 19
14) Haruka fine to ask help from Kanata:
15) Dogeza => twins making up
16) Conclusion

The first 2 episodes are more crammed because of the events are flowing better in quick succession, while the rest require longer exposition.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2013-02-04 at 12:54.
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Old 2013-02-04, 17:48   Link #169
Ringil
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Anyhow there is one main difference between the anime and the visual novel. Every route was a loop in the visual novel, the anime has had no loops. Presumably Riki's weakness will surface up towards the end of the first loop (probably coinciding with the first season end). At least I would hope so.
This comment stuck out for me. At least for me, the anime seems to have loops. Before every new route, Riki always awakens from his sleeping pose and it seems that much of the past occurrences are not remembered. For example, in the Episode 17 discussion thread, someone mentioned why didn't Riki respond to Kanata's question of being able to save other with the fact that he has already saved 2 people (Mio, Komari). I also asked myself this question when I watched that part and the best answer I can come up with is that there are loops, just that the anime isn't making it super obvious.
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Old 2013-02-06, 12:25   Link #170
Klashikari
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After watching a second time the last episode (masochism tendency I guess), something jumped on me despite I probably should have been caught off guard the first time around: since when Riki is prone to say "We also hate you!"?
Sure he often felt Kanata's presence was obnoxious (except the few times she opens up), but to that extent...? Really now?
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Old 2013-02-06, 12:33   Link #171
Kirayuki
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
After watching a second time the last episode (masochism tendency I guess), something jumped on me despite I probably should have been caught off guard the first time around: since when Riki is prone to say "We also hate you!"?
Sure he often felt Kanata's presence was obnoxious (except the few times she opens up), but to that extent...? Really now?
Glad not only me who thought this, I assumed that line was an anime-original since the whole LB was involved, unlike in the game where it was Riki alone (and I don't remember Riki describing Kanata to that extent in Haruka route)
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Old 2013-02-06, 12:41   Link #172
Zankoku12
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Well Riki admitted to Kanata he was drunk with his desire to save Haruka and thus became arrogant about it.
Then there's Kanata zero-sum game of happiness speech.I think her speech could applied to both the characters and the viewers.
Just because we saw Haruka being unhappy and sad,we could put all the blame and hate on Kanata.
It was kinda out of Riki's character but I like it.It show he isn't some lame wimpy or goody two-shoes MC.
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Old 2013-02-06, 13:15   Link #173
novalysis
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If they had 78 Episodes, I'd imagine that will likely mean that that they would be planning to animate Kud Wafter after Refrain.

52 is way more than most VN adaptations would get now of days anyway.
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Old 2013-02-06, 13:16   Link #174
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Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
If they had 78 Episodes, I'd imagine that'd mean that they'll be planning to animate Kud Wafter after Refrain.
Wow, 78 eps would be a lot...

But then the quality would be eons worse, so I can't say I would love that.

Last edited by Kudryavka; 2013-02-06 at 15:28.
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Old 2013-02-09, 16:44   Link #175
Enternal
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Originally Posted by Zankoku12 View Post
Just because we saw Haruka being unhappy and sad,we could put all the blame and hate on Kanata.
This is very important. That's one reason why I decided not to hate Kanata in earlier episodes and was in fact more interested in her character. Just because Haruka is one of the main girl and she's suffering does not mean that we should all just push everything on Kanata's bitchiness and blame her for everything. That's one thing I think the producer does a nice job. They make the viewers get angry at Kanata and hate her yet throws out little hints here and there about Kanata's true nature. And then finally the whole zero-sum happiness talk. I think that's just perfect.

It reminds me of Tales of Phantasia. You play and view the main characters as the "good" guys. It was not until the very end of the game that you learned that it's not black and white like you thought it initially was.
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Old 2013-02-11, 13:04   Link #176
Kudryavka
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Ok, in the anime they said that if Kanata was ever nice to Haruka, then the family would kill Haruka...

Where did this turn up in the game? Must be in Kanata's route or a single line I missed in Refrain, or something up to huge interpretation. Please tell me it is in the game somewhere and JC Staff didn't just throw that in there.
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Old 2013-02-11, 13:37   Link #177
Snuffle
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
Ok, in the anime they said that if Kanata was ever nice to Haruka, then the family would kill Haruka...

Where did this turn up in the game? Must be in Kanata's route or a single line I missed in Refrain, or something up to huge interpretation. Please tell me it is in the game somewhere and JC Staff didn't just throw that in there.
It would be really strange if it that piece of info was ONLY in Kanata's route, since that would be inconsistent with Haruka's story. It's probably JC Staff doing some anime original thing to suite the rushed pacing.
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Old 2013-02-11, 13:45   Link #178
lildevilinhell
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
Ok, in the anime they said that if Kanata was ever nice to Haruka, then the family would kill Haruka...

Where did this turn up in the game? Must be in Kanata's route or a single line I missed in Refrain, or something up to huge interpretation. Please tell me it is in the game somewhere and JC Staff didn't just throw that in there.

I believe it was in the same place. In the Haruka's VN route it mentioned being "culled". I have a feeling either the VN or the anime translation is a bit off somewhere. Which one is right, I'm not quite sure though. Honestly, the anime translation made more sense.
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Old 2013-02-11, 13:47   Link #179
Klashikari
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They already messed up a lot of things with Kanata already anyway.
For instance, there is no way for Kanata to just leave the family like that, otherwise, her route would NOT make sense whatsoever.

That being said, it is indeed mentioned in the VN that the family forced her the role, otherwise they will just dispose one of them.
The original japanese game use "間引く" which does mean "cull". So the anime translation is completely off.
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Old 2013-02-11, 14:54   Link #180
lildevilinhell
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I wonder how they'll edit Kanata's route, since they changed the fact Haruka was living with them before hand ._. ?
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