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Old 2013-02-03, 15:20   Link #141
Hunter
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
What i don't get is why would Sasuke help the alliance against 2 Uchiha? It doesn't make sense in case of Madara, in case of Tobito it would make sense to get his revenge on him for killing the clan, but not when he fights the alliance.
Obito is Sasuke's target from the start and Madara is the guy behind it all. Worse than that his dead brother fought to take Edo-Madara down and failed. Such an insult on the name of his beautiful oniiiii-chan cannot stand.
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Old 2013-02-03, 15:26   Link #142
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
What i don't get is why would Sasuke help the alliance against 2 Uchiha? It doesn't make sense in case of Madara, in case of Tobito it would make sense to get his revenge on him for killing the clan, but not when he fights the alliance.
they are uchiha but they are clearly not only villains, they are both huge enemies of the uchiha clan. obito framed and murdered them with itachi and madara continually defied them to the point of them ostracizing him. sasuke and itachi loved their clan and wanted to preserve their reputation and respect. madara and obito have done nothing but kill, betray and slander the uchiha
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Old 2013-02-03, 17:27   Link #143
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
I disagree. the MS is in the top 3 abilities in the entire story and it's rare. i think an explanation of everyone with MS is in order.
I agree, an explanation is in order...we just don't need it during the course of current events. Honestly, based on what we currently know, it really doesn't matter to anything going on currently.

(Again, this is not to say that Shisui won't be coming back. It just seems really unnecessary...then again, when has that ever stopped Kishimoto?)

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
in a story where characters like shin and hanzo are resurrected and given closure, having closure of shisui's character and mysteries should be inevitable.
What closure? He is said to have died as he lived, protecting Konoha and attempting to save the Uchiha Clan. And truthfully nothing he says can't be said by others (Sarutobi is right before Sasuke's eyes currently, and Itachi already explained himself). As it is, I'm still confused as to what mysteries you are referring to. The only thing that even comes close is how he (or Itachi) so thoroughly destroyed all the genetic evidence of Shisui's existence, but the "why" has somewhat been explained (keeping his secrets from Danzou and the Uchiha Clan). (If you want further rampant speculation...Shisui was Obito's brother, and that is why Obito was so interested in the eyes. But, Shisui completely destroyed himself so as to keep the power of EMS out of Obito's hands.)

Honestly, if you want a real mystery: Who the hell is Itachi's girlfriend?

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
genjutsu is an entire subset of techniques and shisui had the most powerful one ever. i think it's much more important than a mere databook entry
What more can be said about his techniques that hasn't already been said in the manga?

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
shisui's character comes across as a mentor type based on what itachi has revealed of him. that said, if he is alive and blind, he could serve as an adviser of sorts to sasuke.
Sasuke doesn't need an adviser (especially one he would literally have just met). Sasuke needs information and then to sit down, sort his shit out, and finally make some life decisions. Yet another adviser would do nothing for him now except add to the confusion in his poor messed up brain.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
he's also someone sasuke would listen to and take advise from given his close connection to itachi. the only way for sasuke to redeem himself, which he will do eventually, is by sacrifice which is what shisui taught itachi and may need to teach sasuke as well
That lesson was left up to Naruto to teach (Itachi both literally and figuratively gave Naruto Shisui's legacy).
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Old 2013-02-03, 20:03   Link #144
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
I agree, an explanation is in order...we just don't need it during the course of current events. Honestly, based on what we currently know, it really doesn't matter to anything going on currently.
we still dont know the full extent of the knowledge sasuke needs to make his decision. shisui would be able to give him info from the uchiha's perspective. so could others too like his father of course

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What closure? He is said to have died as he lived, protecting Konoha and attempting to save the Uchiha Clan.
same could have been said for obito. he 'died' under the boulder in a fitting way that provided closure to his character and he came back as another character basically. asuma had closure and came back. so did itachi as far as he could see at the time he died, everything went smoothly. with shisui we've heard him mentioned a lot, but never really saw any of it. his supposed death isn't concrete at all. and we don't know how he advanced his eyes to become one of the most elite uchiha in history. how is that closure? and even if you think it's closure, he can still obviously come back just like those other characters

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And truthfully nothing he says can't be said by others
thats simply not true based on the fact that kishi can write whatever he wants if this turn of events came into play. it could be particulars from the uchiha perspective about the coup or some secrets about danzo or root or the sharingan, etc...

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As it is, I'm still confused as to what mysteries you are referring to.
death isn't confirmed. MS reason isn't explained yet. i can't make it much clearer

Quote:
(If you want further rampant speculation...Shisui was Obito's brother, and that is why Obito was so interested in the eyes. But, Shisui completely destroyed himself so as to keep the power of EMS out of Obito's hands.)
i dont see the harm in speculation. it beats having no discussion. like i've said, i think its improbable, but possible for shisui to return. and i dont see any reason to say its impossible. as for your speculation, it actually could happen that way

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Honestly, if you want a real mystery: Who the hell is Itachi's girlfriend?
i've always kind of wanted to know, but in naruto female characters are so useless, that i also kind of didn't

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What more can be said about his techniques that hasn't already been said in the manga?
possibly nothing, possibly something. him returning doesnt require him to unveil any new techniques. if anything, i would assume he would be blind with a head wrap on or something
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Old 2013-02-03, 20:58   Link #145
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Obito is Sasuke's target from the start and Madara is the guy behind it all. Worse than that his dead brother fought to take Edo-Madara down and failed. Such an insult on the name of his beautiful oniiiii-chan cannot stand.
Well all this is logical, but Sasuke acted irrationally from the moment Tobi told him the story if Itachi's death. Why would a guy who wants to kill Tobito make the whole ninja world his enemy by attacking KillerBee wearing an akatsuki robe while he doesn't even want to join them. One could assume that Sasuke did make the world his enemy to gain Tobi's trust but he doesn't act like that at all. The only thing that seems to be true is that both Sasuke and Tobi want to use each other. But if Sasuke wants to use Tobi then he should just summon his bird and watch how Tobi and the alliance annihilate each other while eating popcorn. Anyway, it would really be lame if an Uchiha attacked other two Uchihas while the ninja alliance wants all 3 of them dead. Sasuke attacking these two Uchiha means he is helping Naruto and Konoha, so even if he wants to kill those 2 guys for causing the death of his clan he should first let them destroy the alliance before he turns against them. I can see only one reason for which he would attack them: to prevent the Moon's eye plan. But Sasuke saving the alliance and Naruto would make them look like complete losers. Of course if Sasuke acts completely irrationally he will save Naruto shouting to Tobi that "Naruto is mine! Don't you dare touch him, i want to kill him! blah blah..."
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Old 2013-02-03, 22:38   Link #146
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Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
i would like to know as well. and i agree he COULD potentially return to the story. i currently speculate that since he was in root and given the training they undergo, perhaps he gained it by killing/witnessing the death of his sai brother equivalent. (but for fun tho i want him to be related to obito )
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
(If you want further rampant speculation...Shisui was Obito's brother, and that is why Obito was so interested in the eyes. But, Shisui completely destroyed himself so as to keep the power of EMS out of Obito's hands.)
\
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
i dont see the harm in speculation. it beats having no discussion. like i've said, i think its improbable, but possible for shisui to return. and i dont see any reason to say its impossible. as for your speculation, it actually could happen that way
oh come on!!! lmao
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Old 2013-02-04, 00:02   Link #147
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Well all this is logical, but Sasuke acted irrationally from the moment Tobi told him the story if Itachi's death. Why would a guy who wants to kill Tobito make the whole ninja world his enemy by attacking KillerBee wearing an akatsuki robe while he doesn't even want to join them.
I think he pretty much stated the reason himself, he was attempting to use them for resources while sticking to his own agenda; they were simply using eachother as you said.

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But if Sasuke wants to use Tobi then he should just summon his bird and watch how Tobi and the alliance annihilate each other while eating popcorn.
As revenge crazed as he's been acting, I don't find it too strange that he would want to kill them himself, all things considered.

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But Sasuke saving the alliance and Naruto would make them look like complete losers.
If we look at things that way('being saved/aided' == loser), this is how Naruto has been making much of the alliance look for most of the war anyway imho. Many of them haven't even been allowed to achieve anything of significance without Naruto's aid. So all things considered, not much would change here except that Naruto wouldn't be the one dealing the killng blow or be the essential key for winning. ...Which is why I think this scenario sounds pretty doubtful.
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Old 2013-02-04, 04:56   Link #148
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I expect that only Sasuke could resist the infinite tsukuyomi if it does happen. That wouldn't be a bad route imo.
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Old 2013-02-04, 06:56   Link #149
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I think Sasuke's got all those hokage in check, his eyes are more sinister than Madara himself. Orochimaru knows Sasuke plans well. I sure hope he starts killing more. It would be nice to see him actually use some genjutsu on Kurama and Naruto and make them kill the good guys. Keep your hands clean and get the objective accomplished. I dunno if thats off topic but I sure hope Kishimoto has actual death happen for once.. No one ever dies in Naruto I like it when people die.. it feels better. Now when is Ero-Sennin coming back? Or is he actually going to stay dead? You guys think he got enough closure? I don't once I saw all that crap on Hanzo and Dan...
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Old 2013-02-04, 10:09   Link #150
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1st and 2nd already have all out war against Uchiha clan so just one Uchiha eye will be useless against them since they already know what it can do and how to avoid it (1st even fight Madara one vs one.)
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Old 2013-02-04, 10:43   Link #151
james0246
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
shisui would be able to give him info from the uchiha's perspective.
Itachi told him all he needs to know form an Uchiha perspective. Sasuke now is trying to finally decide if he will become a villain or not, and for that he needs info from Konoha, not the Uchiha.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
same could have been said for obito.
Not really. In fact, not at all. Itachi point blank said Shisui was dead. He was there and everything (that's how he got his fancy eyes). A body was even found. The entire basis for your "mystery" lies solely in the fact that the body disappeared after Shisui died, and since Itachi said he and Shisui planned for that, your "mystery" is not a mystery at all.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
asuma had closure and came back.
Asuma never needed "closure", neither really did his team. He only came back because Kishimoto has a preference for Chouji (seemingly), and wanted Chouji to do something besides be the sad sack of sh*t he is.

None of the other characters you mentioned needed "closure" either. They came back to give other characters closure (and besides Sai, none of them needed that closure). Honestly, beyond the Kyuubi Brothers, none of the Zombies had any real impact on the plot...well, besides Madara .

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
thats simply not true based on the fact that kishi can write whatever he wants if this turn of events came into play.
Duh. I don't dispute that nor do I doubt Kishimoto could find some excuse to bring him back. I simply see no reason based on current information for Shisui to reappear. Hell, at least with the current Hokage resurrection, they pseudo-needed to appear just to get their souls out of their eternal torment and to get the other half of the Kyuubi back in the game. It is stupid that they came back, but there is at least some reason for their appearance...unlike Shisui who has no real mystery and needs no closure for anything.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
it could be particulars from the uchiha perspective about the coup or some secrets about danzo or root or the sharingan, etc...
None of which Sasuke actually needs to know. And, honestly, Orochimaru could provide the same info without needing to pull yet another character back from the dead.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
death isn't confirmed. MS reason isn't explained yet. i can't make it much clearer.
Death is confirmed via a body and Itachi's MS, Shisui's MS can be explained in a data book (since it doesn't really matter anymore) or an off-hand remark (maybe from Sarutobi next chapter or maybe Madara or Obito down the line).

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and i dont see any reason to say its impossible.
Who said anything about impossible? I said it was stupid and unneeded, but never impossible.
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Old 2013-02-04, 15:07   Link #152
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I think he pretty much stated the reason himself, he was attempting to use them for resources while sticking to his own agenda; they were simply using eachother as you said.
But here's the irrational thing: he tells Tobi that he doesn't want to be in akatsuki. He didn't want to take Itachi's eyes either, he simply ran off to destroy Konoha and Tobi had to stop him and tell him which way is the kage meeting with Danzou. He never asked for any resource from Tobi to help him beat Danzou. Or do you mean that the way Sasuke behaves is all acting to deceive Tobi? I mean Sasuke realizing that if he plays the good subordinate then Tobi would not believe it, so Sasuke played the part of the crazy revenge guy that would be much more beliveable for Tobi. Tobi told Sasuke that he worked with Itachi and that he had a grudge against the clan, so Tobi would not believe that Sasuke joins him as if nothing happened. To tell the truth when i saw how dumb Sasuke was against KillerBee i assumed that it can't be that Sasuke is just acting to deceive Tobi, he really was a mindless revenge machine at the time.

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As revenge crazed as he's been acting, I don't find it too strange that he would want to kill them himself, all things considered.
I agree, but even if he enters this war as he is now he should attack both sides simultaneously, both sides are his enemies. Also Tobi helped him a lot personally, if it was not for Tobi he would already be dead or blind. So i don't see why would he rather attack the helping hand instead of the guys that he wanted to kill all this time.

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Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
If we look at things that way('being saved/aided' == loser), this is how Naruto has been making much of the alliance look for most of the war anyway imho.
It was teamwork, Naruto is part of the alliance, but Sasuke would be a 3rd party there. Naruto did many great things and even smart things a few times, but he would be long dead if the others didn't help him. For instance he pulled a quite smart move against the previous raikage, but before that he had to be saved by some noname rubber ninja. He was also saved by Kakashi, Gai and even Ino, so it was really teamwork even if the most important part of that teamwork was done by the main character of the manga. So as long as they can win they are all winners, even if only Naruto survives the battle.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
they are uchiha but they are clearly not only villains, they are both huge enemies of the uchiha clan. obito framed and murdered them with itachi and madara continually defied them to the point of them ostracizing him. sasuke and itachi loved their clan and wanted to preserve their reputation and respect. madara and obito have done nothing but kill, betray and slander the uchiha
Madara didn't do anything, he was their leader and they rebelled against him, and then he peacefully accepted that they chose the 1st hokage and left the village. If Sasuke learned that Tobi is not Madara then why would he attack Madara. Instead he should tell Madara that he was right not wanting to join Konoha, because in the end (by Sasuke's logic) that was the decision that led to the destruction of the clan. Even if Sasuke learns from Minato that it was Tobi who attacked the village and caused indirectly the Uchiha massacre that wouldn't make Madara automatically his enemy. However as he learns more and more about Tobi he might end up wanting to take revenge on Tobi immediately. That gives a small chance for Sasuke entering the battlefield, but it would be hard to explain later that he didn't take advantage of the fact that the alliance ninja and Naruto are almost completely exhausted and this would be the best chance for Sasuke to kill them all, beginning with Naruto. Naruto and the alliance have been fighting 2 days non-stop, it doesn't seem to be the right time to throw in Sasuke just now. Of course Orochimaru could betray Sasuke since the 4 hokages are under his control, but then the battlefield would become a complete mess

Last edited by Ero-Senn1n; 2013-02-04 at 15:26.
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Old 2013-02-05, 01:19   Link #153
james0246
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Based on advanced One Piece spoilers, the 619 discussion thread has been created a little earlier. Please move all relevant discussions to the new thread.
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Old 2013-02-05, 02:25   Link #154
itachi-san314
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Asuma never needed "closure", neither really did his team. He only came back because Kishimoto has a preference for Chouji (seemingly), and wanted Chouji to do something besides be the sad sack of sh*t he is.

None of the other characters you mentioned needed "closure" either. They came back to give other characters closure (and besides Sai, none of them needed that closure). Honestly, beyond the Kyuubi Brothers, none of the Zombies had any real impact on the plot...well, besides Madara .
yea that was my point. that even characters who were given closure were brought back and granted more to their story. point being that you saying shisui's character has enough closure is moot since characters like asuma, sasori, obito, etc... had an adequate amount of closure not to necessitate a return. i dont agree that he has enough closure yet, but like i said it's moot since anyone can be brought back regardless of closure. and his closure can be given without shisui's return. although i would deem his closure to be worth more than a mere passage in a data book. it is the fabled MS we're talking about here

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Who said anything about impossible? I said it was stupid and unneeded, but never impossible.
well then i'm not entirely sure what your point has been. from the start of this shisui discussion i have said it wasn't needed and was improbable of happening. i'm only saying it's possible and there are reasons for it to happen. you keep saying he has no mysteries but his MS is a mystery plain and simple.

i dont think it would be stupid either. nor do i think the hokages return was stupid. its a matter of opinion of course, but the hokages imho needed to return for the sanctity of the story. and now that they have returned, there are many awesome scenes that can and will happen involving them. i'm pretty excited for it actually
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Old 2013-02-05, 14:13   Link #155
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The Second Hokage must have smoked something when he said that thing about love. He could have it shorter at least. Wonder what is the Fourth doing there?
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Old 2013-02-05, 15:42   Link #156
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Ok. So madara really loved his brother. But he and Izuna both activated the mangekyou together....so they Witnessed their parents die??

I like shodais personality. Reminds me of Goku....

(Karin will be recruited to help with kyuubi chakra)
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Old 2013-02-05, 22:57   Link #157
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I like shodais personality. Reminds me of Goku....

(Karin will be recruited to help with kyuubi chakra)
Lol with that it makes sense why his family is so messed up. His chemistry with Second is pretty funny too.

I wonder how is it that Obito has the Eternal Mangekyo considering he doesn't bleed when using Kamui.
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