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Old 2013-02-03, 21:39   Link #2321
sayde
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Really? Because I'd argue Kishimoto destroyed his main heroine in Naruto far more so than Kubo destroyed Rukia.
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Old 2013-02-04, 01:44   Link #2322
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I don't think Rukia was ever meant to be the heroine. She was sort of a mentor to Ichigo in the beginning (seriously, what could she do else without her powers), then became his motivation, when she was brought back to SS and there was no purpose for her afterwards.
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Old 2013-02-04, 02:21   Link #2323
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rukia was the damsel in distress who then became an irrelevant buddy character. she was never a heroine in the story
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Old 2013-02-04, 14:10   Link #2324
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Really? Because I'd argue Kishimoto destroyed his main heroine in Naruto far more so than Kubo destroyed Rukia.
See, I only read Naruto on occasion. Though, Kishi pretty much is a worse writer than Kubo.

I admit, I'm also a little bitter because Rukia's what got me into Bleach because she was such a tiny badass. Now to see her reduced to fodder hurts bad.
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Old 2013-02-04, 14:35   Link #2325
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Though, Kishi pretty much is a worse writer than Kubo.
IMHO Kishi is a way way better writer. The only iffy parts in Naruto are Sasuke related and it's more to do with how he made him a second main character and kinda didn't. If the series wasn't called "Naruto" that probably wouldn't have raised any eyebrows though. On the other hand Kubo fails to kill anyone, injected tons of filler and filler characters and even a filler arc into his manga, has some very cop out villains, fails to control the power levels of his characters, is consistently violating the world and rules he's laid down.

Essentially Bleach is a series with complexity the size of an ocean and depth the size of a puddle, and Naruto is a series with complexity the size of a puddle (war, ninjas and bonds) and depth the size of an ocean. Depends on peoples tastes, but most of the time you want higher depth to complexity ratio.

That said, both series have been pretty decent lately.
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Old 2013-02-04, 16:36   Link #2326
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
IMHO Kishi is a way way better writer. The only iffy parts in Naruto are Sasuke related and it's more to do with how he made him a second main character and kinda didn't. If the series wasn't called "Naruto" that probably wouldn't have raised any eyebrows though. On the other hand Kubo fails to kill anyone, injected tons of filler and filler characters and even a filler arc into his manga, has some very cop out villains, fails to control the power levels of his characters, is consistently violating the world and rules he's laid down.

Essentially Bleach is a series with complexity the size of an ocean and depth the size of a puddle, and Naruto is a series with complexity the size of a puddle (war, ninjas and bonds) and depth the size of an ocean. Depends on peoples tastes, but most of the time you want higher depth to complexity ratio.

That said, both series have been pretty decent lately.
Agreed, at least Kishi tries to tie the plot paths together without leaving/forgetting obvious plot holes.
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Old 2013-02-04, 17:15   Link #2327
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Honestly I've never found Naruto or One Piece all that interesting. *gasp, blasphemy, burn the heretic!* The writing is okay, but they never had a hook that got me caught up in the story. But I won't defend Bleach much in the subject of writing either. It's pretty terrible from a competency (and consistency) standpoint. Felix's water analogy is pretty spot on.

But what Bleach does have that keeps me coming back are interesting characters and settings, combined with funky design. Even the third string characters have interesting designs and (usually) quirky personalities. While this almost never translated into a compelling character story, it always made me wonder what the next team of bad/good guys Kubo would come up with next. That was part of the appeal of Zero Squad, for me at least. I already knew they were hella strong....but the outrageous designs were worth waiting for.

I always wondered what Bleach would have been like had it not been a shounen battle story. It almost feels like the imagination Kubo has for the characters and setting are wasted on a plot best summed up as "my dick is bigger than yours".

If you took Kubo's imagination and art, and paired it with a solid writer, I bet you'd have a great story. Oh, and I wouldn't mind it being monthly. Kubo's work always seem to benefit when he actually has time to draw panels. ><
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Old 2013-02-04, 20:45   Link #2328
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About the panels I've heard that he often doesn't draw backgrounds to focus on characters' introductions just like when Hinamori saw Aizen after she believed he was dead. However, it's during mid Arrancar that I noted he was getting lazy especially considering Hueco Mundo's design. In the Fullbring arc was more obvious.
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Old 2013-02-05, 10:20   Link #2329
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
IMHO Kishi is a way way better writer. The only iffy parts in Naruto are Sasuke related and it's more to do with how he made him a second main character and kinda didn't. If the series wasn't called "Naruto" that probably wouldn't have raised any eyebrows though. On the other hand Kubo fails to kill anyone, injected tons of filler and filler characters and even a filler arc into his manga, has some very cop out villains, fails to control the power levels of his characters, is consistently violating the world and rules he's laid down.
I disagree, i think both series started out great but then went haywire halfway through the story. You kinda get the sense that neither of them really expected to keep their jobs for so long when they stard out, and thus reched a point where they had absolutely no ideia what to write next. Kishimoto also has major problems controling his charcters power levels, I'd say even more so than Bleach. And by now i think he has violated every single rule he's ever laid out, it's like part 1 and part 2 were written by two different authors who hate each other. Honestly both series should have ended 2 or 3 years ago.
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Old 2013-02-05, 10:56   Link #2330
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Is the newest chapter coming out today or what?
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:12   Link #2331
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Kubo caught the flu so no chapter this week.
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:35   Link #2332
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No new chapter this week. :[[[
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Old 2013-02-05, 21:08   Link #2333
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I disagree, i think both series started out great but then went haywire halfway through the story. You kinda get the sense that neither of them really expected to keep their jobs for so long when they stard out, and thus reched a point where they had absolutely no ideia what to write next. Kishimoto also has major problems controling his charcters power levels, I'd say even more so than Bleach. And by now i think he has violated every single rule he's ever laid out, it's like part 1 and part 2 were written by two different authors who hate each other. Honestly both series should have ended 2 or 3 years ago.
Naruto is more of Gary Stu then Ichigo is.

Kubo must be thinking of ways to troll us :P
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Old 2013-02-05, 23:04   Link #2334
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Kubo must be thinking of ways to troll us :P
Dude, even more?! Lets see maybe all this arc is an illusion created by Aizen in which Juha was modelled after Zangetsu as a means to challenge Ichigo. Then Ichigo awakes another new power or something like that.
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Old 2013-02-06, 05:03   Link #2335
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Dude, even more?! Lets see maybe all this arc is an illusion created by Aizen in which Juha was modelled after Zangetsu as a means to challenge Ichigo. Then Ichigo awakes another new power or something like that.
I vote eye lasers. And crotch rockets.


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Old 2013-02-06, 16:25   Link #2336
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No new chapter this week. :[[[
Apparently he's sick with the flu.

Dunno about the rest of you, but he seems to get sick fairly often.
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Old 2013-02-06, 18:48   Link #2337
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He just got married, let him enjoy a bit
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Old 2013-02-07, 02:01   Link #2338
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Apparently he's sick with the flu.

Dunno about the rest of you, but he seems to get sick fairly often.
This is legit. There's a crazy flu epidemic going on in Japan right now. Half my schools have had classes cancelled entirely and the staff are getting mandatory tests for the influenza virus. They take that stuff real serious.

If Kubo dies from the flu, I wonder if he'd come back as a ghost writer and finish the manga...
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Old 2013-02-07, 17:14   Link #2339
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This is legit. There's a crazy flu epidemic going on in Japan right now. Half my schools have had classes cancelled entirely and the staff are getting mandatory tests for the influenza virus. They take that stuff real serious.

If Kubo dies from the flu, I wonder if he'd come back as a ghost writer and finish the manga...
He can come back as a shinigami!


Kidding aside, I don't wish the flu on anyone.
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Old 2013-02-08, 00:19   Link #2340
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