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Old 2013-02-05, 08:00   Link #2941
Kudryavka
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Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRW View Post
Guys what happens here, again?
It's somewhat related to Japanese culture, so it's on topic...

Worst comes to worst the Minegishi incident will get put in its own topic (or put in the AKB48 thread but I don't know if that's the best idea at this point).
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:07   Link #2942
RRW
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
This.

Not in SEA, sorry. Engineers/Technicians are all disposable assets and their health/risk compensations are total liabilities. That is why nobody wants to study engineering anymore.
It still popular in my SEA friend circle. then again most of us have engineering background. plus company here provide nice facility like free utility and good community along with reasonable wages.
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:14   Link #2943
Sumeragi
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You know how there is tonkatsu? How many of you would like to try gyukatsu?
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:16   Link #2944
DonQuigleone
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
The same argument can be applied to everyone. The fact you make it seem everyone but the ultimate employee are all untrustworthy is not the way one should look at this issue. Either everyone is untrustworthy, or everyone is untrustworthy. Your kind of selective bias is improper.
It's not that everyone is untrustworthy, but that enough parents and companies are unscrupulous that laws must be put in place to protect children, to ensure that parents and companies uphold their responsibilities.

Quote:
Your point is basically one of irresponsibility, pure and simple, and as such you're basically supporting a faulty reasoning to say one's private life has no bearing on one's public life or occupation. The fact you keep arguing it is very difficult to comprehend except for the individualism superiority I tend to see.
Quite the opposite. For me it is equally about responsibility, but I do not see it as a case of the employees responsibility, but of the employers responsibility. The Employee has the responsibility to work hard, but the employer has even more so the responsibility to care for and protect it's employees, and not to ruthlessly exploit and control them. I would view the manner in which these employers limit the lives of their employees as going over the line, they have abrograted their responsibilities towards their own employees welfare, and the employees are within their right to do whatever is within their power to "correct" the situation, however they can.

Likewise, fans have also violated their own responsibility to their objects of support. After all, do they not have a duty to protect and support their idol? Shouldn't they support them in leading a happy healthy romantic life? If an idol falls in love and wishes to get married, they should be the first ones coming out in support and wishing them good luck. They should have the loyalty to support their idol through thick and thin. They should be defending the idol against their ruthless employers. They are disloyal, selfish and untrustworthy troops.

The model behaviour for fans would be that shown by those of Britney Spears. Britney Spears did things far more disgraceful then any Jpop or Kpop idol ever has, but still her fans closed ranks and supported her through fair and foul, against popular mockery by the wider public and media at large. I'm no fan of Britney, but in this respect her fans showed model behaviour.

I don't see an irresponsible Idol, I see an irresponsible production company taking advantage of young vulnerable girls, and selfish jealous so called "fans" without a shred of loyalty in their bones.
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:18   Link #2945
Sumeragi
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Seems like you and I will never see eye-to-eye on this particular issue.
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:18   Link #2946
RRW
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
You know how there is tonkatsu? How many of you would like to try gyukatsu?
I would interested to try "real" gyukatsu since I forbidden to eat pork.

Any good recipe?
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:19   Link #2947
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
You know how there is tonkatsu? How many of you would like to try gyukatsu?
That sounds yum.

Everyone around me who knows Japanese food is always, "Tonkatsu! Tonkatsu! Tonkatsu!" even though I really do not like to eat pork... it's nice to know there is a katsu for beef!

What kind of grade meat they use? I wonder if it's like country fried steak (though lighter I'm sure since katsu isn't fried in thick batter and eaten with high calorie white gravy).
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:21   Link #2948
Sumeragi
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I'll write one up when I'm not busy with work. Currently staying up late for a meeting.
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:22   Link #2949
Kudryavka
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
I'll write one up when I'm not busy with work. Currently staying up late for a meeting.
Ok, thank you. Good luck with your meeting.
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:22   Link #2950
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRW View Post
It still popular in my SEA friend circle. then again most of us have engineering background. plus company here provide nice facility like free utility and good community along with reasonable wages.
Only if you work outside of consumer/corporate/systems electronics. Marine/Aerial/Utility/Civil pays more and are definitely appreciated because of draconian safety laws - the assets are tightly controlled by the government. That is the one of the few things I like my government about - they know that engineers deserve utmost respect for keeping the machines that make life easier running, even if they tend to have an arrogant streak (which I don't mind because they are REALLY good at what they do) and naturally suck hard at communication skills.

My generation inclines towards business and finance because they don't like to sweat and work in tough environments. Neither do I, however I get perks working there because most, if not all the time, the people there know their work and have the drive to get things done with elegant solutions, it is like giving Leonardo Da Vinci a screwdriver and hammer and watch him build a Mona Lisa fembot complete with pleasure functions.

I worked for Japanese and Korean electronics/engineering firms as a kick-around kid before, but I don't mind being so because these old men are literally gods in human form - they know almost everything and can build things from scratch. Right now I am attached to corporate being commanded by idiots, it is still a big-star Asian company however it seems that these people.......have no idea what the hell is going on at the production, sales, technical/engineering lines at the bottom.

Where are the gods I want to worship? Why are the production lines slowly becoming disused temples?
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:26   Link #2951
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
I'll write one up when I'm not busy with work. Currently staying up late for a meeting.
cool thanks. I always amaze that you able browse animesuki (and play game) even thought you have work
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:27   Link #2952
Sumeragi
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Let's just say Animesuki and WoT keep me from going completely mad.
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:30   Link #2953
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I worked for Japanese and Korean electronics/engineering firms as a kick-around kid before, but I don't mind being so because these old men are literally gods in human form - they know almost everything and can build things from scratch. Right now I am attached to corporate being commanded by idiots, it is still a big-star Asian company however it seems that these people.......have no idea what the hell is going on at the production, sales, technical/engineering lines at the bottom.

Where are the gods I want to worship? Why are the production lines slowly becoming disused temples?
I dream of working in a lean production line. Ah, such glorious things they are!

Unfortunately, the benefits of lean thinking have not yet filtered out into the wider economy. If they did, everyone would be more efficient, and much happier, because Lean doesn't work if you treat employees like disposable assets.

I am quite hopeful that the market will do the work for us, as colloborative lean enterprises outcompete outmoded, conflict driven dysfunctional one. To my mind the overemphasis at the moment on "business" and "finance" is Muda waiting to be eliminated.

If we want profitable productive business people need to be getting down and dirty producing things faster, cheaper, more reliably and at higher quality.
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:31   Link #2954
Ridwan
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
You know how there is tonkatsu? How many of you would like to try gyukatsu?
I have tried one, since I can't eat pork here because we imported our religion from Middle East !

You know, there's a topic more interesting then idols' right to date that's currently going on in Japan.

What's with the quirky rise of Indonesian references in anime ? Kyo-Ani in particular, is especially guilty of this.
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:39   Link #2955
Bri
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
This.

Not in SEA, sorry. Engineers/Technicians are all disposable assets and their health/risk compensations are total liabilities. That is why nobody wants to study engineering anymore.

We are employees, and if we are deemed "not to add value to the company", out we go.
That's not just in SEA. Other fields like law and financial services pay better, are easier to study and offers better career prospects. You really have to enjoy science or engineering cause in terms of cost benefit it's not worth it anymore.
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:39   Link #2956
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Let's just say Animesuki and WoT keep me from going completely mad.
Doesn't it do for all of us "working adults".

Posting here and showing our love for "childish Japanese cartoons" makes us look like kids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I dream of working in a lean production line. Ah, such glorious things they are!

Unfortunately, the benefits of lean thinking have not yet filtered out into the wider economy. If they did, everyone would be more efficient, and much happier, because Lean doesn't work if you treat employees like disposable assets.

I am quite hopeful that the market will do the work for us, as colloborative lean enterprises outcompete outmoded, conflict driven dysfunctional one. To my mind the overemphasis at the moment on "business" and "finance" is Muda waiting to be eliminated.

If we want profitable productive business people need to be getting down and dirty producing things faster, cheaper, more reliably and at higher quality.
I actually wanted to blame China, or rather, the SEA for fostering the "blue-collar slave" mentality in these companies. With access to a seemingly unlimited supply of manpower for hardcore labour, companies, even Japanese/Korean ones treat their workers like trash, and insert fresh-graduates from university with less than a year of bottom-end experience to manage these workers.

But businesses have karmic shifts. Now rise the SME contractors set up by the bottom end contractors who hold these big companies at mercy with their know-how. The companies think they can switch these contractors around, but the familiarisation costs and downtime with the other SME add up over time - it is a silent killer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri View Post
That's not just in SEA. Other fields like law and financial services pay better, are easier to study and offers better career prospects. You really have to enjoy science or engineering cause in terms of cost benefit it's not worth it anymore.
I really don't think so. For me (and some people whom I know in the first year of my university as part-time/sabbatical students), they didn't want to study engineering or want to quit the engineering field because of the lack of motivation given by most employers. I love science and engineering, but I hate :

1. How science and math is being taught in schools (what do you mean by "just memorise the formula and don't ask too much"?)
2. How people treat engineers and technicians (blue-collar workers with nowhere else to go in life)
3. How technical work is viewed as simple and monotone (have you nuts ever tried building an electrical circuit from scratch with only a list of what functions it should have?)

Finance pays less than engineering due to the current increase of supply if such graduates, but people don't want to go into engineering because of how they are being viewed.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:39   Link #2957
Sumeragi
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Would need specific examples, but I figure that it's probably due to the importance of Indonesia to Japan these days. Koreans (even if they are basically invisible), Chinese, Americans, and Europeans are basically stock by now, leaving mostly Southeast Asia as the significant "foreign" element. Among the countries there, the Philippines and Indonesia are the most prominent, and since Indonesia is more "foreign" (obviously Islam among many things), it would be more utilized.

This is just speculation. I would need specific examples for further analysis.
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:44   Link #2958
RRW
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Let's just say Animesuki and WoT keep me from going completely mad.
By some reason I can see that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post

What's with the quirky rise of Indonesian references in anime ? Kyo-Ani in particular, is especially guilty of this.
Thank to Chunibyo, I am surprised that Japanese word of potato (Jaga-imo) is come from Jakarta.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brief History about Jaga-Imo
The potato was introduced to Japan by the Portuguese in the 17th century. Until this time the Japanese had sweet potatoes from Okinawa. The Portuguese had brought it from Jakarta, Indonesia. During its introduction, the translation came across as Jakarta imo or Jakarta potato. The Japanese shortened it and called it the Jagaimo.
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Old 2013-02-05, 08:57   Link #2959
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Would need specific examples, but I figure that it's probably due to the importance of Indonesia to Japan these days. Koreans (even if they are basically invisible), Chinese, Americans, and Europeans are basically stock by now, leaving mostly Southeast Asia as the significant "foreign" element. Among the countries there, the Philippines and Indonesia are the most prominent, and since Indonesia is more "foreign" (obviously Islam among many things), it would be more utilized.

This is just speculation. I would need specific examples for further analysis.
I think that specific examples would be hard to get, because the data collectors know they would be added to the production line as raw material for breaking the focus of these workers.

And any feedback given within the company is treated as a corporate secret and not known to the public. It takes years (for me, around 2-5, 3 of which is before my conscription) of working at random companies periodically to see the trend from the bottom.

And that includes being kicked around, arguing with saints and gods (deadly mistake), and backing them when the clueless supervisor makes a visit and tries to fingerbang his subordinates.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-02-05, 09:00   Link #2960
Sumeragi
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So here's the deal: Do you people want gyukatsu (hammered beef) or minchikatsu (minced beef)? I'll write up a recipe once that is decided.
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