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Old 2013-02-05, 11:10   Link #2821
Lhklan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
Actually I think I’m right here. The Church does practice Ancient Belka long before the Wolkenritter show up. For that matter we even have Zest as an Ancient Belka user so some people still knew the “lost style” even at his time. The Church is describe as a Belkan users organization. And the indication is this: before Nanoha and Fate use the cartridge system there were no even mention of two Belka styles and after there are two, so there is that.

And you are missing the point again. Not only Mid and Belka use energy the same but they can do the same, so really if I can perform close, mid and long range attack with any of those styles and the difference is that one is close range and the other is long range then to me that difference doesn’t really exist. Rowing and fencing use the same muscles at times but they archive different goals and need different equipment while Belka and Mid-Childa archive the same and can use the same equipment.
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:10   Link #2822
bhl88
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Think something like:
In Ragnarok Online:
Mid-Childa (INT type High Wizard):
Short range attack: Stave Crasher (magically physical)
Long range attack: Storm Gust, Lightning Bolt, Fire Bolt

Ancient Belka (VIT type Paladin):
Short range attack: Holy Cross, Bash, Magnum Break
Long range attack: Grand Cross and Shield Boomerang

Modern Belka (AGI type Battle Sage):
Short range attack: Physical attacks + Auto Cast
Long range attack (though frankly not really that long compared to Wizard and they are much slower too in casting): Fire Bolt, Cold Bolt, Lightning Bolt

All three of them can use long range attacks but in different methods. Short range attacks are possible with these three styles as well.
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:11   Link #2823
Lhklan
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^ Eh, shouldn't Ancient Belka be more like Lord Knight class? That class use magic enhancing ability more. (Used to play one)
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:15   Link #2824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lhklan View Post
^ Eh, shouldn't Ancient Belka be more like Lord Knight class? That class use magic enhancing ability more. (Used to play one)
Yeah true. I used to play Battle Professor, Battle High Priest and Battle Mage anything, I could say that these three builds are like Modern Belka.

But I picked Paladin cause their long range attacks are effective, I'd qualify them for Ancient Belka.

Renewal made a crossover so much, I can't tell which ones are which anymore. Might as well say that all classes are the same.
Royal Guard: shielding skills, riot skills, area effect skills
Rune Knight: Area effect skills, melee skills, one hit kill skills
Warlock: Area effect skills, memorization
Sorcerer: Area effect skills, melee skills, magic skills
Shura: one hit kill skills, melee skills
Assassin: one hit kill skills, melee skills, disarm skills
Stalker: area effect skills (via copy), disarm skills, melee skills, one hit kill skills (via voodoo)
Archbishop: magic skills, healing skills
Chemist: one hit kill skills, magic skills
Mastersmith: one hit kill skills
Ranger: area effect skills, disarm skills, range skills
Gypsy and Clown: Area effect skills

People are not happy with those analogies of yours. Might as well say that a cannon and a missile are the same.
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:25   Link #2825
Keroko
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Come to think of it, Breaker magic alone proves that Mid and Belka magic can't do the same, so that crumbles the logic entirely.
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:27   Link #2826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Come to think of it, Breaker magic alone proves that Mid and Belka magic can't do the same, so that crumbles the logic entirely.
Yeah true. Except there's Starlight Breaker and Miura's Sword kick skill (unless I got it wrong and the kick didn't break shields)
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:32   Link #2827
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Back to the church for a bit, I will repeat: The only Ancient Belka user in the church is the Rare Skill user Carim. Aside from that, the only other members we have data on use Modern or Mid. That basically crushes the theory that "all" members practice Ancient Belka.
Sorry for being picky here but, where was that stablished? I think i heard somewhere in StrikerS that Zest and Schach were part of a minority of Ancient Belkan users and that was why they received the title of "Knight" (something unusual for modern Belkan practicioners or at least for those onscreen, Subaru, Ginga and Quint were all Modern Belka practicioners but none of them were classified as "Knights").

Maybe i'm just confused but i would like you were less ambiguous when bringing up stuff like this as a counter-argument xD
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:36   Link #2828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post
Yeah true. Except there's Starlight Breaker and Miura's Sword kick skill (unless I got it wrong and the kick didn't break shields)
Muira uses mid-style, not Belkan...

Apparently.
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:39   Link #2829
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Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
Muira uses mid-style, not Belkan...

Apparently.
guh I thought she uses Belkan cause of her Yagami style
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:43   Link #2830
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post
guh I thought she uses Belkan cause of her Yagami style
Nope, Miura is a Mid-mage which is part of this whole mess of "there's no difference between mid and belka styles".

Personally i think such theory do hold some ground, but i think is not as if there was never a difference and more like since Quint's times the thick line between the two styles has been blurring out during the incoming years to the point that by the time of Vivio and friends one style is almost indistinguishable from the other xDU
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:43   Link #2831
Sansker
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No, the sister is a Modern Belka user actually Akiyoshi. And Miura does use Mid.

Breaker magic alone doesn’t proof they can’t do the same. We haven’t see a Belka user doing something similar, because according to you Hayate doesn’t count, but that doesn’t mean it can´t be done. In fact Sieg’s final move is compare in nature to Miura’s attack and Sieg could be an Ancient Belka user.

And no, you can’t fence with a boat oar and you can row with a sword. The oar is just too different in shape, weigh and longitude to be use as a proper sword and the blade is just too small to be use as a way to move the boat.
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:47   Link #2832
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Then oar and axe. Axe is as wide as the oar so there are no differences. And Musashi the legendary swordsman did so with an oar so there's no difference with an oar and a weapon
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:48   Link #2833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
And no, you can’t fence with a boat oar and you can row with a sword. The oar is just too different in shape, weigh and longitude to be use as a proper sword and the blade is just too small to be use as a way to move the boat.
Oooh! Oooh! Oooh!

A boat oar can't be used as a sword?

Great to know, I'll go back in time and tell Musashi that he can't use that boat oar to kill Sasaki Kojirou in their duel.
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:51   Link #2834
Sansker
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A bokken is not a boat oar, as far as I know.

The thing needed to be shape in to that, he didn't use the actual thing. So yes, my point stands.
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:53   Link #2835
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So we replace it with axe and call it: "sharpened broad oar that you can use to row a boat with"
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:54   Link #2836
Lhklan
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Originally Posted by Sansker View Post
A bokken is not a boat oar, as far as I know.

The thing needed to be shape in to that, he didn't use the actual thing. So yes, my point stands.
Eh, no. Musashi actually use a wooden oar in his story. It's practically common knowledge.
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Old 2013-02-05, 11:55   Link #2837
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BTW, Hayate's final attack, Ragnarock, is just that, Ragnarock, not Ragnarock Breaker.
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Old 2013-02-05, 12:01   Link #2838
Akiyoshi
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BTW, Hayate's final attack, Ragnarock, is just that, Ragnarock, not Ragnarock Breaker.
Nanya has a point there, Hayate's Attac is only Ragnarok, people got confused by Fate and Nanoha screaming Breaker when they did the "Triple Breaker" attack xD

...but you should admit "Ragnarok Breaker" sounds far cooler xD
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Old 2013-02-05, 12:04   Link #2839
Sansker
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I still say she did use the word Breaker on it the first time. But who knows.

Why are we talking about Musashi? In any case, he didn’t even practice fencing and even if he did he kill a person with an oar, not use his sword style with that thing is impossible. Which is not the case between Belka and Mid where I can use any device and any Linker Core to do the magic.

You are still agreeing with me they can both do what the other does that alone helps my point. Both styles can be use to perform what the practitioner needs, making them both really much more alike than what they try to admit. You see a different magic system, to me, could be one that performs different things with the energy or that uses a different energy or even different devices, that will make it different and not so easy to adapt to imitate the other, but here is not the case. I can use fist, skyboards, pistols, hammers, axes, swords and anything in any style and it won’t make a real difference.
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Old 2013-02-05, 12:07   Link #2840
bhl88
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Kamina would be proud of you using a pistol to punch a robot.
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