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Old 2013-02-04, 18:14   Link #3601
LeoXiao
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
Ittekimasu (not to be confused with itadekimasu) is actually used more primarily for goodbye over sayonara.
It means "I'm going" (and coming back presumably), whereas "sayonara" is more like "farewell", and has a finalizing tone.
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Old 2013-02-05, 12:12   Link #3602
Kimidori
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 20
so I just applied for a japanese course at my university and classes will start next week, there are something I want to ask.

some people here said reading book can help you at reading, writing japanese and remembering kanji, but can I use Visual Novel instead of book? since playing games is pretty much how I progressed really fast with my english learning and become fluent in less than a year (I can say that 80% of my english is from gaming and 20% from school).

how long it often take to learn it? is it harder to learn to speak than english?
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Old 2013-02-05, 13:16   Link #3603
Kudryavka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimidori View Post
so I just applied for a japanese course at my university and classes will start next week, there are something I want to ask.

some people here said reading book can help you at reading, writing japanese and remembering kanji, but can I use Visual Novel instead of book? since playing games is pretty much how I progressed really fast with my english learning and become fluent in less than a year (I can say that 80% of my english is from gaming and 20% from school).

how long it often take to learn it? is it harder to learn to speak than english?
All the VNs I played have a lot of kanji, and there are some that start getting so poetic you might as well have the skill to read a book of literary merit. I can see how you did that with English, but kanji don't really work the same way since they are all new signs and symbols (until you get a feel for the radicals and stuff).

I think you could learn Japanese from games if you really wanted to, but not VNs, at least not for starting out. Maybe some games aimed at children like Nintendo? I know Kingdom Hearts in particular includes furigana for kanji that aren't extremely common/easy.
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Old 2013-02-05, 15:08   Link #3604
erneiz_hyde
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For the record, I did use VNs to practice reading. Of course, that's not all I used, but point is I used VN a lot to increase my exposure to Japanese writings. I used AGTH to extract the texts as I play and copy-paste them to a dictionary/translator program, which is a major source of my knowledge of kanjis.
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Old 2013-02-05, 15:29   Link #3605
DonQuigleone
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I'd say if you can find a game with Furigana it would be a good start. Otherwise that mass of symbols will be difficult for you to get a start on deciphering, and you'd quickly get discouraged.
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Old 2013-02-05, 15:52   Link #3606
Kudryavka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
For the record, I did use VNs to practice reading. Of course, that's not all I used, but point is I used VN a lot to increase my exposure to Japanese writings. I used AGTH to extract the texts as I play and copy-paste them to a dictionary/translator program, which is a major source of my knowledge of kanjis.
Yes, I think reading anything would be practice...

It's just that if you're starting out with kanji (as I assume OP is since s/he implies s/he will have his/her first JPN class soon?), reading VNs is just not feasible. Unless you have a tooon of patience to use AGTH. Though the more you know, the less you'll be leaning on AGTH for support. I tried reading a VN with AGTH back when I only knew 40 kanji, and uggghh... It took way too long. But that is me, I'm sure if you have a game you really want to play no matter what you would perservere.

But if OP already has decent kanji knowledge, then I'm sure they'll get great, efficient use out of AGTH. But still, learning kanji is not really like learning words in languages which only use alphabets. With alphabets, no matter what you will be able to at least pronounce the word with even basic skills. With kanji you must study and commit them to memory, at least in the beginning.

OP How many kanji do you know? Are there specific visual novels you are dying to play or are you just looking to use them for reading practice? I cannot say if kanji are harder to learn than English because English is my first language, but I can say that learning kanji is much harder than learning other languages I have studied that use alphabets like English, for reasons I stated above. I hope that still answers the question?

Last edited by Kudryavka; 2013-02-05 at 16:03.
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Old 2013-02-05, 17:55   Link #3607
Alchemist007
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By OP I assume you mean erneiz? Because the actual OP made this thread 10 years ago
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Old 2013-02-05, 17:55   Link #3608
Kudryavka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
By OP I assume you mean erneiz? Because the actual OP made this thread 10 years ago
Yep, I am talking about the OP of this current topic/the question asker, Kimidori.

Last edited by Kudryavka; 2013-02-05 at 20:59.
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Old 2013-02-05, 19:56   Link #3609
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post

OP How many kanji do you know? Are there specific visual novels you are dying to play or are you just looking to use them for reading practice? I cannot say if kanji are harder to learn than English because English is my first language, but I can say that learning kanji is much harder than learning other languages I have studied that use alphabets like English, for reasons I stated above. I hope that still answers the question?
I wonder how you even guage how many kanji you know....you can't recall every single word in your vocabulary off the top of your head like that yet it's such a commonly used marker
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Old 2013-02-05, 20:02   Link #3610
Kudryavka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
I wonder how you even guage how many kanji you know....you can't recall every single word in your vocabulary off the top of your head like that yet it's such a commonly used marker
When that is said, it doesn't want the person to know exactly how many kanji they know, that'd be impossible unless she knew that few or just passed a JLPT (which would not be an exact gauge, but could give a ballpark unless you passed the test with flying colors or something).

When I say "how many do you know", I'm more like "Do you know 0? 10? 100? or 500? or 10000?". Huge ballparks, except for the lower numbers.

Last edited by Kudryavka; 2013-02-05 at 23:39.
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Old 2013-02-05, 20:38   Link #3611
erneiz_hyde
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Oh you were asking me? I thought you were asking Kimidori

But yeah, I don't really know how much kanji I have memorized. I never took an official class or course and the only benchmark I bothered to take was passing a JLPT N3 a little over one year ago (Grammar/Reading/Listening, on a 60 scale: 50/60/43).

I still have problems with kanji and reading exactly what is written and relied more on the nuance of the passage, but if that test was credible, it showed that it's enough, at least for N3.

And regarding that VN I was dying to play: Little Busters. I actually finished that game wholly with AGTH in one hand and a translator in another. But my love prevailed!

And then there was Itsuka Todoku Ano Sora ni. I took about two-three years finishing that game because of the absurd level of writing involved, but again love prevails!
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Old 2013-02-05, 20:58   Link #3612
Kudryavka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Oh you were asking me? I thought you were asking Kimidori

But yeah, I don't really know how much kanji I have memorized. I never took an official class or course and the only benchmark I bothered to take was passing a JLPT N3 a little over one year ago (Grammar/Reading/Listening, on a 60 scale: 50/60/43).

I still have problems with kanji and reading exactly what is written and relied more on the nuance of the passage, but if that test was credible, it showed that it's enough, at least for N3.

And regarding that VN I was dying to play: Little Busters. I actually finished that game wholly with AGTH in one hand and a translator in another. But my love prevailed!

And then there was Itsuka Todoku Ano Sora ni. I took about two-three years finishing that game because of the absurd level of writing involved, but again love prevails!
Yes, I was asking Kimidori. My bad, I just copied your name because the person I quoted used your name. I fixed it now.

Wow good job finishing LB with AGTH and a translator.

Last edited by Kudryavka; 2013-02-05 at 23:39.
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Old 2013-02-05, 22:31   Link #3613
LeoXiao
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My thoughts: If you can count how many kanji you know, it's probably not very many. When you get used to learning them you can find patterns and kind of guess how a character is read.
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Old 2013-02-06, 12:52   Link #3614
Alchemist007
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Well personally, I write down every new kanji I come across on flashcards. I just review them time to time for memorization.
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Old 2013-02-06, 14:17   Link #3615
DarkSkiper
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Hello!

I recently started learning Japanese via self-learning and I have a question.

What is better, to learn words or kanji?
I decided to learn grammar + pick up some words along the way, but decided to leave kanji for later once I'm done with the grammar. Is it a good course of action or not? I'm under the impression that if I learn words to increase my vocabulary, kanji will be come naturally or something along those lines. Am I wrong in thinking so?
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Old 2013-02-06, 14:30   Link #3616
-Necromancer-
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DarkSkiper: Im in the exact same situation at the moment xD

So I'd like an answer too. Also does any one know anywhere, where they say the japanese then the english right after? preferably a song. Since I learn a lot faster using songs and listening to them than reading or speaking etc.

I have a few where they say the words then the english but it's not in a beat or song so it's still a little hard and I have some where they have the english but in a sub so it doesn't work on my mp3

Thanks in advance
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Old 2013-02-06, 19:39   Link #3617
LeoXiao
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You want to start with the core of the language, which includes basic vocab and grammar, and in the case of Japanese, the alphabet. Hiragana should be your starting point since it is what the most basic words are composed with. Kanji only really becomes necessary when you start dealing with more abstract or intellectual concepts; think of it like all the Latin and Greek stuff we have in English.

As for learning from songs... I'd say it works (I've learned quite a few Russian words that way), but as for the English following it thing, if I were you I'd just find the lyrics (in English, romaji, and hiragana/kanji) online somewhere, print or write them out, and look at them as you listen. And do not actually sing them out loud unless you have a good voice and pronunciation or else it will sound terrible and create a public disturbance.

Last edited by LeoXiao; 2013-02-07 at 10:30.
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Old 2013-02-07, 00:28   Link #3618
DarkSkiper
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^Thanks! I didn't mention hiragana since I already learned them along with katakana.
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Old 2013-02-21, 22:44   Link #3619
Kudryavka
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What are the rules for adding な to a noun to make it a modifying word/adjective? Can I add な to any noun for which an adjective doesn't already exist?
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Old 2013-02-22, 01:42   Link #3620
LeoXiao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
What are the rules for adding な to a noun to make it a modifying word/adjective? Can I add な to any noun for which an adjective doesn't already exist?
IIRC if it ends in -ii, such as "yasashii", "oishii", etc, then it undergoes a more complex process, but if it's something else (like "keizaiteki" or "zankoku"), then it simply takes -na, i.e. "keizaiteki na ryori" (economical cuisine)
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