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Old 2013-01-25, 09:22   Link #61
Tempest35
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Thanks to the latest manga chapter, I've now seen Erza completely pissed off.

Scary sight.
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Old 2013-01-26, 13:37   Link #62
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167th episode seems like it might be the best ever with Titanic smackdown of Pandemonium, good to see that they will expand upon it unlike the lackluster 2-pager in the manga.
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Old 2013-02-03, 15:45   Link #63
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After the 'Pandemonium' and '100 to 1' Episodes, I've re-kindled my love for bad-ass Erza!
THAT WAS FREAKIN' AWESOME
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Old 2013-02-03, 15:49   Link #64
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Definitely, my high expectations for 167 was met and then some! IMHO best FT episode so far, re-watched like 10 times at the very least.
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Old 2013-02-04, 19:08   Link #65
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My reply to this post.

Erza was serious in her fight against Jellal. Just because she didn't run him through doesn't mean that she wasn't serious about trying to take him down. Erza was too self-depreciating back then - too willing to take the bullet when it concerned her past because of her guilt.

And Erza has gotten her face shoved with her past on many occasions - the entire deal with Jellal on the run and with Milianna and Kagura gunning for him is bringing up the loose ends of what Jellal did.

Erza took it upon herself to be Natsu's big sister/mentor. It's why she lets him take as many risks as he does. She wants him to grow stronger than even she is. Natsu gets beat as often as he does because his power fluctuates depending on how angry he gets and if it's a 'do-or-die' moment. He is also still learning about how to manipulate his power. Erza has pretty much maxed out on what she has to learn so far and is just in level grinding mode.

Facing someone of Bluenote/Gildartz's level is suicidal and Erza would never tackle someone like that without being part of a team situation. She's too smart for something like that. Asuma was enough of a fight on his own for her.

She's an author favorite and a fan favorite and she has MC Determinator lvls so there's pretty much no way that she's gonna lose to most of her fights until she fights someone meant for Natsu to take down, like Jellal was.
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Old 2013-02-04, 19:23   Link #66
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Taking this post from the anime thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
Jellal doesn't count because Erza was never serious in that fight. Jellal is the only person she will never fight seriously because she is head over heels into him.

Erza took a massive canon head on and destroyed the crying guy. She was barely standing at that point. If she had taken down a guild master in that condition I would have been raging YEARS AGO!
Besides that happened so long ago that it doesn't even matter now.

Just because Erza was established as strong character doesn't mean that she is invincible. Taison is a strong/one of the best boxer's but even he lost!

Besides as you all said Gildarts is stronger yet for some reason Erza never encountered an enemy of that level. They are never around unless Gildarts is there and to be honest even then such opponent appeared only once.

Natsu is an MC but even he lost far more.

What makes Erza worse is that she is always portrayed as a knight in shining armor. Everyone has their demons but never Erza. no matter where disaster happens she always has perfect timing and reaction. There is always something happening to make her look perfect. Natsu as an MC never got such treatment as she does and it only gets worse in manga.
Heaven's Tower arc ring a bell? That was entirely about Erza's demons! And Jellal used those demons against her to beat her.

Oh, in the same arc, Erza also was beaten by Wally, of all people. Damn, Erza sure has quite a few fights that she doesn't win... Well, I suppose if she really did win all her fights through her own power, people might come to think she's perfect or something.
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Old 2013-02-06, 18:01   Link #67
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Heaven's arc is the only arc where Erza was not herself. Actually she is never herself when it comes to Jellal. He is her only and sadly dumb weakness.

And no she didn't give it all. She had perfect opportunity to kill him but instead she broke down in a hug.
Then she decided to sacrifice herself while Natsu was fighting Jellal. She never fought Jellal for real nor will she ever.
In all honesty Jellal doesn't even need to try to kill her. That's how big her attachment to the dude is.

Everything else is none existent to her.

And as I said there are never any Gildarts level opponent unless Gildrats is present.
The only real opponent for her so far was Azuma whom she beated with cheap power of friendship shot.
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Old 2013-02-06, 18:49   Link #68
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Cobra kicked her ass, but the match up was to his advantage. She a close combat type.
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Old 2013-02-06, 18:51   Link #69
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
The only real opponent for her so far was Azuma whom she beated with cheap power of friendship shot.

Why do I get the feeling that you are more pissed at the friendship shot thing than her
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Old 2013-02-06, 19:32   Link #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
Heaven's arc is the only arc where Erza was not herself.
Oh, that's convenient. "My theory is correct, except for when it's wrong, but that doesn't count because I say so!"

Seriously, while you might have some valid points, you completely destroy them when you resort to these kinds of tactics. It just comes across as whinging. NOt herself? Maybe. Giving it her all? Absolutely. Perhaps you missed when she found her resolve to end things and went after Jellal. Yes, she had feelings for him, but if you know anything about women and love, then you'd know love can turn to hate easily. She wasn't holding back. Seriously, wach episode 39 again...

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Actually she is never herself when it comes to Jellal. He is her only and sadly dumb weakness.
Wouldn't this kinda defeat the whole "Erza is perfect!" line you've been spouting? If she has a weakness, then she isn't perfect, is she? In fact, Jellal used that weakness against her and beat her (and was easily avoiding her attacks before that).

Oh look, an opponent that outsmarted and outfought Erza. Guess she isn't so perfect and invincible, eh?

And still, she lost to Jose. Wally beat her. She lost to Oracion Seis. She tied against her Edolas self. She couldn't beat Cobra (neither the first time, and lucked out the second time).

And you'll reply with "But...! But...! But...!" And try to dismiss all her losses and non-wins, just so you can turn around and claim she's perfect because she never loses. Seriously, just give it up. She's strong, yes. But she's not invincible. If she never lost and beat everyone who came her way, then you'd have a point.

Hell, why don't you complain about Makarov? He never loses! Well, there was that time against Aria and Hades, but those don't count, because they show him being beaten. At least, that's how the reasoning goes, right?
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Old 2013-02-07, 21:55   Link #71
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Erza doesn't win in every fight of hers. But the probability of her winning is like 98%, much higher than the MC Natsu's. Regardless of whether she won all her fights in the past or she's lost some of them, it all boils down to her character becoming too predictable recently. We all get this feeling whenever we see an enemy confront Erza that she would win in the end. Right? Most of the time, she does. When she doesn't, then a change is good sometimes. Thing is, it has taken the thrill of watching her fight, recently. It's like people getting tired of Gray's stripping habit. Or Natsu barging head on to fight the baddest villain. Or Lucy mostly losing in her fights (which I just noticed is the total opposite of Erza's case).

People don't complain about Makarov, Laxus, or Gildarts being overpowered because they are not shown to be in a fight much. How many times have we seen Makarov fight? So far there's only Jose and Purehito (Aria does not count 'cause that was a surprise attack). He won against Jose but lost badly to Purehito. The same goes with Laxus and Gildarts. In the few fights they had, they have been shown to have lost. Laxus to Natsu and Gajeel and Gildarts to Acnologia.

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Originally Posted by Eragon View Post
Why do I get the feeling that you are more pissed at the friendship shot thing than her
As for me, it's not that I'm pissed at her character, but I'm pissed at her fights mostly ending with a "one shot to defeat them all" attack
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Old 2013-02-07, 23:54   Link #72
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When Natsu confronts the end boss of the arc, you already know he's going to win, right? Does that ruin the fight for you, or the ending? Would you rather have seen Erza lose to Azuma, and thus doom Fairy Tail? Would you rather have seen her lose to Midnight and be killed? Would you rather see her lose to Minerva now?

Honest questions here. How would you have done it differently?
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Old 2013-02-08, 01:45   Link #73
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Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
Thanks to the latest manga chapter, I've now seen Erza completely pissed off.

Scary sight.
There was that time against Aria in Phantom Lord. Don't think she's topped that face yet, partly due to Mashima's style adjusting.

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When Natsu confronts the end boss of the arc, you already know he's going to win, right? Does that ruin the fight for you, or the ending?
Sort of... There was a time when other people got to fight the end boss (e.g. Galuna Island, Phantom Lord). Now it's always Natsu landing the final blow, if not soloing. His joke fights and henchman fights end up more interesting, if less dramatic.

Quote:
Would you rather have seen Erza lose to Azuma, and thus doom Fairy Tail?
I really thought that happened for about a week. After the initial shock passed and I got used to the idea, I thought it was brilliant. There were already strong hints that FT would lose the arc (for once), and having Erza lose a 'fair' fight when everything was on the line (for once) would've been on par with Ace dying. FT would survive, grieve, and have a rematch arc down the line. It would've been a nice change of pace for the series.

Then she got back up and won in the most cliche manner possible. I mean, it was a cool scene, but the bait-and-switch really pissed me off after spending a week in an alternate timeline where Mashima had balls/brains. Then he followed up by removing Urtear as a villain, and I knew my dreams for the arc were dead.

...Okay, he got points back for Acnologia, but
1) Acnologia didn't seem scary enough to make everyone leave the Master behind, even temporarily. For that to look plausible and not OOC, it should've blown away the giant tree as its opening move.
2) The timeskip was sudden and rushed.
3) Much of the timeskip's once-in-a-series potential has been wasted. (Secondary guild members being worth a damn; Raven Tail being worth a damn or doing anything; Tartaros doing anything; Zeref doing anything; etc.)
4) Post-timeskip powerlevels have been a mess. What was the point of making them weaker than everyone, then instantly turning the tables again with Second Origin out of nowhere? (It even broke Arc of Time's established limits. Based on the anime's versions of events, it could've made sense if they had flashed back to the enhancement surgeries performed on young Urtear, and to the freaky spell Urtear used on young Gerard, which even looked kind of like the Second Origin spell, but none of this was done, so it's just me rationalizing Mashima's asspull for him.)

But I digress.

Quote:
Would you rather have seen her lose to Midnight and be killed?
I liked her Midnight fight. Her eye power needs to be more consistent though. It didn't identify Sieglein or the Nirvit as illusions. Are they just different kinds of illusions? It's not explained.

Quote:
Would you rather see her lose to Minerva now?
I expect she'll win somehow, because everyone else has their hands full already, but I have no idea how to make it satisfying and plausible. Is she going to one-shot two promising antagonists in a row? That's low even for Mashima. OTOH, she can't really do an extended fight on that crushed leg.

Quote:
Honest questions here. How would you have done it differently?
I appreciate your honest question, and reply with honest answers (although you weren't asking me) I may sound bitter, but I'm still a huge fan of the series. No joke.
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Old 2013-02-08, 02:25   Link #74
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I liked her Midnight fight. Her eye power needs to be more consistent though. It didn't identify Sieglein or the Nirvit as illusions. Are they just different kinds of illusions? It's not explained.
I think the point is that her "eye power" is not supposed to be very powerful, but reliable in case of distress. For instance, when she was turned into stone, it did take her a while to break through. Similarly, it took a bit - but not long - to see through Midnight's illusion.

She wouldn't think of Sieglein as a thought projection when she first meets him, nor see the Nirvit as illusions, so the "power" wouldn't kick in.

That's my rationale anyway. It could be that Mashima simply overlook those events and forgot to be consistent.
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Old 2013-02-08, 19:16   Link #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MechR View Post
Sort of... There was a time when other people got to fight the end boss (e.g. Galuna Island, Phantom Lord). Now it's always Natsu landing the final blow, if not soloing. His joke fights and henchman fights end up more interesting, if less dramatic.

I really thought that happened for about a week. After the initial shock passed and I got used to the idea, I thought it was brilliant. There were already strong hints that FT would lose the arc (for once), and having Erza lose a 'fair' fight when everything was on the line (for once) would've been on par with Ace dying. FT would survive, grieve, and have a rematch arc down the line. It would've been a nice change of pace for the series.

Then she got back up and won in the most cliche manner possible. I mean, it was a cool scene, but the bait-and-switch really pissed me off after spending a week in an alternate timeline where Mashima had balls/brains. Then he followed up by removing Urtear as a villain, and I knew my dreams for the arc were dead.
You've probably realized but... Fairy Tail is shonen. That means a few things: that the main character will usually face down the big bad of each arc and win. There are exceptions, but these are exceptions to the rule. That explains Natsu. That also explains why people like Erza win when the chips are down.

Keep in mind, that if Erza had lost against Azuma, then Fairy Tail was finished. Gildartz, and all the people he was protecting, would be dead now. Many others would have died. That would have turned Fairy Tail horribly tragic, and that's not what this series is like. It's shonen.

As a side note, it's rare that you'll find a strong female fighter on the good guy side (part of the main cast). Most females, if they fight at all, are more like Lucy or Sakura (Naruto) or Rukia (Bleach). There, but kinda weak and no real focus (although Lucy does get more focus than Rukia or Sakura, one of the reasons I like FT over Bleach or Naruto). Because of that, I find it refreshing to find a tough female like Erza, who not only holds her own, but can beat the crap out of the main male protagonist when she wants to. You talk about wanting to see different things, and here you have Erza in front of you. I won't deny that some of your suggestions would have made things interesting; I just don't expect them from a shonen manga/anime.

In every series I watch, I have expectations, much like everyone else. There are always things I would have done differently, or things I would have liked, and things I didn't. But Fairy Tail, like everything else, isn't written just for me. So while I can accept someone's personal dislike of Erza, they'd have to recognize that it is just that: a personal dislike. Her character as is has no real problems, ie, she's written human enough.

But the claim of her always winning is outright false, as is the claim of her being perfect. Sure, claim you(not you specifically, but in general) don't like her, but there is no need to make things up to try and justify it. Doing so just hurts the argument. Especially when, in a shonen series, a character will win if there is something great on the line. That's just how shonen works (because the creator, artist, and company all want to make money). I myself disliked the blatant cheap tactics Madoka used, but I can recognize they did it to make money.

Quote:
I liked her Midnight fight. Her eye power needs to be more consistent though. It didn't identify Sieglein or the Nirvit as illusions. Are they just different kinds of illusions? It's not explained.
Sieg wasn't an illusion, so much as a part of Jellal. He got quite a bit of power back when he merged with the double he created. And Erza's eye isn't absolute (can you imagine the fan outrage if it was? It would be another way she is OP!). It seems to take awhile to work, and she has to be paying attention. She had no reason to suspect the Nirvit or Sieg of being false. Midnight's "attack" would have forced her to really ask herself what was going on, and look more closely at it. Kinda the way Laxus was forced to really question Mystogan's illusion attack.
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Old 2013-02-08, 21:19   Link #76
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
but if you know anything about women and love, then you'd know love can turn to hate easily.


Try to guess from 3 guesses why I'm laughing

Pinwheel10
He basically summed it all up for me. Her fights are predictable and boring lately.

Spoiler for manga:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
When Natsu confronts the end boss of the arc, you already know he's going to win, right? Does that ruin the fight for you, or the ending? Would you rather have seen Erza lose to Azuma, and thus doom Fairy Tail? Would you rather have seen her lose to Midnight and be killed? Would you rather see her lose to Minerva now?

Honest questions here. How would you have done it differently?
Eeeehhhh... YES!

Natsu losing a major fight would be FANTASTIC! Because just like Erza he is predictable. The only real surprise for me was his fight with Gildarts. I really do appreciate it.
In all honesty every single MC is boring since you can predict everything that will happen in next 10 minutes and sometimes much further. The only exception I met so far was Edward Elric and Yomi from Ga-Rei Zero.

Yeh, why not? It would be interesting to see how FT grows from its doom. It would be a different take on the story. Whole power up at the tournament ruined whole purpose of the time skip. Nothing changed at all.

FT has huge lack of deaths, so yeh I wouldn't mind it. Or at least have her suffer serious injury and then see how she struggles to recover and how it affects everyone.

Nah, she can kill Minerva. That loser deserves it.


All of that would make story more entertaining and would give it more depth if done right.
Otherwise it is same thing over and over but in different setting.

FT was good but after around 70 episodes it just got tiresome to see exactly same thing as we have seen before and in many other shounen series.

In all honesty shounen writers are probably the least creative minds in manga industry and as writers over all. Especially modern ones.
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Old 2013-02-08, 23:35   Link #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
Eeeehhhh... YES!

Natsu losing a major fight would be FANTASTIC! Because just like Erza he is predictable. The only real surprise for me was his fight with Gildarts. I really do appreciate it.
You do realize that, if Natsu had lost any of his fights (say, against Zero or against Jellal), he'd be dead right now, right? Perhaps you'd like the genius of DragonBall Z, where the losers frequently died(good and bad guys)? Is that what you'd want to see FT turn into?

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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
FT was good but after around 70 episodes it just got tiresome to see exactly same thing as we have seen before and in many other shounen series.

In all honesty shounen writers are probably the least creative minds in manga industry and as writers over all. Especially modern ones.
I just have to ask... why are you still here? You do know we are going to continue seeing what we've seen before, yes? If you dislike what FT has become, and dislike shonen so much, and know that FT will continue to be this way... why continue to stay and hate on it?

I mean, there are shows I dislike greatly for various reasons. And once I stop liking something, I tend to stop watching. Or at least, stop commenting in a forum occupied by people who still like it. I consider that to be a courtesy to other people, but that's just me.
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Old 2013-02-09, 02:50   Link #78
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You've probably realized but... Fairy Tail is shonen. That means a few things: that the main character will usually face down the big bad of each arc and win. There are exceptions, but these are exceptions to the rule. That explains Natsu. That also explains why people like Erza win when the chips are down.

Keep in mind, that if Erza had lost against Azuma, then Fairy Tail was finished. Gildartz, and all the people he was protecting, would be dead now. Many others would have died. That would have turned Fairy Tail horribly tragic, and that's not what this series is like. It's shonen.
Not necessarily. GH could've just left the island after collecting Zeref. Hades did say he was feeling a bit sentimental, so that's an easy plot excuse for him to spare them. At worst only Makarov might die, since he had raised a bunch of death flags already.

Besides, if Natsu and co. survived an extended beating from Master Zero (Mr. "You're still alive, right? I can still see your bodies!!"), there's no reason they couldn't survive a less-thorough beating from GH.

Quote:
As a side note, it's rare that you'll find a strong female fighter on the good guy side (part of the main cast). Most females, if they fight at all, are more like Lucy or Sakura (Naruto) or Rukia (Bleach). There, but kinda weak and no real focus (although Lucy does get more focus than Rukia or Sakura, one of the reasons I like FT over Bleach or Naruto). Because of that, I find it refreshing to find a tough female like Erza, who not only holds her own, but can beat the crap out of the main male protagonist when she wants to. You talk about wanting to see different things, and here you have Erza in front of you. I won't deny that some of your suggestions would have made things interesting; I just don't expect them from a shonen manga/anime.
Erza is a big part of why I like Fairy Tail.

Quote:
In every series I watch, I have expectations, much like everyone else. There are always things I would have done differently, or things I would have liked, and things I didn't. But Fairy Tail, like everything else, isn't written just for me. So while I can accept someone's personal dislike of Erza, they'd have to recognize that it is just that: a personal dislike. Her character as is has no real problems, ie, she's written human enough.
I like Erza, but am often frustrated with Mashima.

Quote:
But the claim of her always winning is outright false, as is the claim of her being perfect. Sure, claim you(not you specifically, but in general) don't like her, but there is no need to make things up to try and justify it. Doing so just hurts the argument.
I would argue she's basically never lost a "fair" fight outside of filler (Dan Straight ). She was low on gas against Jose and Gerard, and outnumbered against the Oracion Seis.

Midnight is arguable since she got back up, ready for business, in the same chapter she went down. That's less than a ten-count from a dramatic standpoint And then her comeback next chapter made sense. Contrast with Azuma, where all signs pointed to a defeat arc and readers had a week to get their hopes up, only to get slapped in the face with a literal power-of-friendship comeback.

I thought I knew better when Kagura came around. I was actually looking forward to Erza's comeback so we could have a spectacular fight ending in her victory, but then it ended in one slash! Not only did it make no sense after Kagura's Round 1 showing, it was a complete anticlimax! Every time I lower my standards, Mashima finds a new low!

Quote:
Especially when, in a shonen series, a character will win if there is something great on the line. That's just how shonen works (because the creator, artist, and company all want to make money).
I hate to be "that guy", but Oda killed off Ace, and his manga is Japan's bestseller, moving nearly as many volumes as #2-5 combined. At #3 on the list, Naruto has also failed majorly at least once, when Sasuke left Konoha. That's two shounen with significant defeats that outsell Fairy Tail (and everything else). What's the monetary incentive for pulling punches, again?

Quote:
I myself disliked the blatant cheap tactics Madoka used, but I can recognize they did it to make money.
That reminds me, Madoka's still in my backlog Unless you mean a different Madoka.

Quote:
Sieg wasn't an illusion, so much as a part of Jellal. He got quite a bit of power back when he merged with the double he created. And Erza's eye isn't absolute (can you imagine the fan outrage if it was? It would be another way she is OP!). It seems to take awhile to work, and she has to be paying attention. She had no reason to suspect the Nirvit or Sieg of being false. Midnight's "attack" would have forced her to really ask herself what was going on, and look more closely at it. Kinda the way Laxus was forced to really question Mystogan's illusion attack.
Speaking of Luxus, Erza's eye didn't see through Master Ivan's illusion either. And she had plenty of time to stare disbelievingly at that one. I had forgotten about this until today's episode.

Back when the manga reached this point, I was looking forward to how Erza would respond, since the chapter (286) actually avoided showing her reaction the entire time, and she was still hurt from Pandemonium. But it never came up, and then Luxus wiped RT out in seconds, along with all their hard-earned villain potential. If they couldn't do jack after SEVEN YEARS of prep, I'm not sure how they'll ever be a credible threat again

Last edited by MechR; 2013-02-09 at 05:28.
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Old 2013-02-09, 11:08   Link #79
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Originally Posted by MechR View Post
Not necessarily. GH could've just left the island after collecting Zeref. Hades did say he was feeling a bit sentimental, so that's an easy plot excuse for him to spare them. At worst only Makarov might die, since he had raised a bunch of death flags already.
We still had Zancrow walking around, and Bluenote was fighting Gildartz. And they were still looking for Zeref. Remember also, that Acnologia would eventually show up. A weakened FT (that couldn't even move!) would have been wiped out. And if Acnologia had shown up on the island and started killing FT people off, Mashima would have had to whip out an even bigger asspull to save them, causing even more people to complain about it.

Remember, the tree being up meant FT couldn't actually die on the island (except for Erza, whom Azuma had still allowed the tree to link to her. That was all that was keeping Makarov and some of the other injured people alive, too, and they were put in danger when it went down. The link had to be restored, Azuma defeated, in order for several people to survive.

Quote:
I like Erza, but am often frustrated with Mashima.
Oh, there are things about FT I don't like, or wish had been done differently, too. But that's merely personal taste, and not really issues with FT itself. I also realize no series will completely please me, since no series is specifically written for me.

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I would argue she's basically never lost a "fair" fight outside of filler (Dan Straight ). She was low on gas against Jose and Gerard, and outnumbered against the Oracion Seis.
She was arguably low on gas vs. Aria, too, but took him out relatively quickly.

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I thought I knew better when Kagura came around. I was actually looking forward to Erza's comeback so we could have a spectacular fight ending in her victory, but then it ended in one slash! Not only did it make no sense after Kagura's Round 1 showing, it was a complete anticlimax! Every time I lower my standards, Mashima finds a new low!
Eh, Erza was already shown to be quite strong *before* the time skip and power up. And she defeated a horde of monsters, including one that a wizard Saint should have had trouble against. So, in a sense, Kagura was going up against a wizard saint+. Outcome was predictable, the only unknown factor was whether Erza would let her feelings of guilt get in the way, or whether she'd "play dead" to get Minvera to show back up. Kagura's only showing was vs. a Celestial Spirit Mage, and those have never been shown as being very strong.

I actually think Mashima did a great job here, building up Kagura as a strong threat, or at least hinting that way to throw the readers off the trail. That built us up enough to think she'd be on par with Erza, but when you look at it realistically, we were hoodwinked. Her "strength" was simply mostly talk. I even bet Natsu or Gray could have taken her out easily enough.

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I hate to be "that guy", but Oda killed off Ace, and his manga is Japan's bestseller, moving nearly as many volumes as #2-5 combined. At #3 on the list, Naruto has also failed majorly at least once, when Sasuke left Konoha. That's two shounen with significant defeats that outsell Fairy Tail (and everything else). What's the monetary incentive for pulling punches, again?
I can't speak to Ace, as I only watched a little of One Piece. But it's not unheard of for secondaries to die. I think even DBZ had some secondaries die(for real and not get wished back, though I could be wrong. So many people died there, heh). As far as Sasuke goes, there wasn't enough on the line. I actually felt the buildup to that being a bit of a crap, since it wasn't like Sasuke was dying; he was just leaving. Things being on the line, meaning if the "bad guy" wins, main characters die, or something horrible happens. By putting much less on the line (Sasuke leaving), you can open the door for main characters to be defeated. Bringing back "Dead" people is also something shonen does. I wouldn't be too surprised if Ace came back (Lisanna did).

One corollary to this, is that you can start allowing people to die in the final story (since you won't need them anymore). Both Naruto and Bleach are doing this. But a secondary or tertiary character death can serve to propel a main character forward.

[quote[That reminds me, Madoka's still in my backlog Unless you mean a different Madoka.[/quote]

Nope, same Madoka. I won't go into it here, because it's not a Madoka thread and will make fanboys rage. But if you want to know the "cheap" tactics (imo), I can tell you in a pm or something.

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Speaking of Luxus, Erza's eye didn't see through Master Ivan's illusion either. And she had plenty of time to stare disbelievingly at that one. I had forgotten about this until today's episode.

Back when the manga reached this point, I was looking forward to how Erza would respond, since the chapter (286) actually avoided showing her reaction the entire time, and she was still hurt from Pandemonium. But it never came up, and then Luxus wiped RT out in seconds, along with all their hard-earned villain potential. If they couldn't do jack after SEVEN YEARS of prep, I'm not sure how they'll ever be a credible threat again
Yeah, in the manga, the illusion didn't last that long, so it was conceivable that Erza didn't get enough time to wonder about it and focus on it. The anime tends to drag things out, though, so the anime director probably didn't realize what he was doing by dragging the Laxus fight out. He could have easily contained the entire Laxus fight to the most recent episode, making it quick enough that Erza's eye wouldn't have become a factor.
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Old 2013-02-10, 06:36   Link #80
MechR
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
We still had Zancrow walking around, and Bluenote was fighting Gildartz. And they were still looking for Zeref.
So Zancrow finds Zeref and signals HQ.

Alternatively, Urtear backstabs him and escapes with Zeref, so GH pulls out to chase her.

The biggest problem is Bluenote since he's after Fairy Glitter. I guess you could have it blow up in his face when he tries extracting it by force.

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Remember also, that Acnologia would eventually show up. A weakened FT (that couldn't even move!) would have been wiped out. And if Acnologia had shown up on the island and started killing FT people off, Mashima would have had to whip out an even bigger asspull to save them, causing even more people to complain about it.
Technically Acnologia was only introduced later, when Zeref spoke its name while waking up. You could actually just write it out of the arc.

Alternatively, in my head-timeline, Acnologia attacks GH's airship instead. If they're chasing Urtear, this would help her escape too.

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Remember, the tree being up meant FT couldn't actually die on the island (except for Erza, whom Azuma had still allowed the tree to link to her. That was all that was keeping Makarov and some of the other injured people alive, too, and they were put in danger when it went down. The link had to be restored, Azuma defeated, in order for several people to survive.
Or they could survive anyway, because hey, it's Fairy Tail. At worst, let Makarov die. The badass grandpa always dies in shounen so the next generation can take the reins. (See: Genkai, 3rd Hokage, Yamamoto, Whitebeard, etc.)

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Eh, Erza was already shown to be quite strong *before* the time skip and power up. And she defeated a horde of monsters, including one that a wizard Saint should have had trouble against. So, in a sense, Kagura was going up against a wizard saint+. Outcome was predictable, the only unknown factor was whether Erza would let her feelings of guilt get in the way, or whether she'd "play dead" to get Minvera to show back up. Kagura's only showing was vs. a Celestial Spirit Mage, and those have never been shown as being very strong.

I actually think Mashima did a great job here, building up Kagura as a strong threat, or at least hinting that way to throw the readers off the trail. That built us up enough to think she'd be on par with Erza, but when you look at it realistically, we were hoodwinked. Her "strength" was simply mostly talk. I even bet Natsu or Gray could have taken her out easily enough.
It's like you didn't read chapter 314 at all, or read a different version from the rest of us Did you not see Kagura straight-up outmuscle Erza in a sword clash, destroy her defensive armor, outduel her speed armor, and generally crush her at her own game on national TV without drawing steel?

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I can't speak to Ace, as I only watched a little of One Piece. But it's not unheard of for secondaries to die. I think even DBZ had some secondaries die(for real and not get wished back, though I could be wrong. So many people died there, heh). As far as Sasuke goes, there wasn't enough on the line. I actually felt the buildup to that being a bit of a crap, since it wasn't like Sasuke was dying; he was just leaving. Things being on the line, meaning if the "bad guy" wins, main characters die, or something horrible happens. By putting much less on the line (Sasuke leaving), you can open the door for main characters to be defeated. Bringing back "Dead" people is also something shonen does. I wouldn't be too surprised if Ace came back (Lisanna did).
Lisanna should've stayed dead and buried. There was no reason to bring her back (other than shipping potential, which Mashima totally isn't milking), and some major reasons not to. And now I'm going to do something I thought I'd never do, and suggest you read One Piece.
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