AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Psycho-Pass

Notices

View Poll Results: Psycho-Pass - Episode 16 Rating
Perfect 10 57 53.27%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 36 33.64%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 8 7.48%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 4.67%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.93%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-02-09, 07:28   Link #141
Dengar
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 29
It's held by either an android or a cyborg who is capable of interfacing with Sibyl, I don't think it's much of a plothole.
Dengar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 07:44   Link #142
Roger Rambo
Sensei, aishite imasu
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Makishima Acting Out Of Character
I have made the observation that different people have different gripes about him. Some find that his combat skills are very implausible. Others find that him getting all giddy when he gains the upper hand is out of character. Yet even others found it rather strange that he didn't "sense Akane's presence".

This is, of course, the inherent problem with a character who is inherently mysterious: People start to form images in their mind of "what he's supposed to be like" based on things they feel are true or think they have seen, when in fact, the author has something completely different in mind. This is not breaking character, this is just a character that turns out different from what you'd expect. If you feel like the author is obligated to live up to each and every one of your expectations, well that's up to you really.

Incidentally, my personal opinion is that his anticlimactic defeat is exactly what he deserved. Which leads me to:
Personally I feel that there has been plenty of stuff shown about Makishima's inclinations to not make the encounter he had with Kougami seem out of character. It only seems weird if you're heavily set on believing that Makishima was totally emotionally detached from everything he's done up until now. That's certainly not something I thought, since most motivation inclinations are mortivated by visceral rather than intellectual reasons, but it's one among several interpretations of Makishima. One that isn't necessarily the best interpretation now that we've seen him get to play with someone who *wasn't* boring.
Roger Rambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 08:09   Link #143
desrtsku
wuaaai!
 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Kalos Region.
Age: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Ok ok I've finally seen the episode. Lets break down some of the discussions here.

Makishima Acting Out Of Character
I have made the observation that different people have different gripes about him. Some find that his combat skills are very implausible. Others find that him getting all giddy when he gains the upper hand is out of character. Yet even others found it rather strange that he didn't "sense Akane's presence".

This is, of course, the inherent problem with a character who is inherently mysterious: People start to form images in their mind of "what he's supposed to be like" based on things they feel are true or think they have seen, when in fact, the author has something completely different in mind. This is not breaking character, this is just a character that turns out different from what you'd expect. If you feel like the author is obligated to live up to each and every one of your expectations, well that's up to you really.

Incidentally, my personal opinion is that his anticlimactic defeat is exactly what he deserved. Which leads me to:
THIS. This scene with Ko actually added some element for us to get a better in-depth view of his personality ... and nowhere near something like breaking his personality. I already had some assumptions before but now I'm pretty sure he's just the kind of person who seeks for another one who can take the best of him, which also pretty fits how he was always trying to push his former comrades to their limits (the Yuri girl and the cyber hunter dudes for instance) ... well that's just me (but I don't think I'm too far away from the truth).
They live in a world where almost no one has to even think about defending themselves, which leads you to think that most people wouldn't even care about learning self defence techniques. For someone like Makishima who rejects Sibyl, having actual impressive combat skills is in itself pretty legit, as he understands more than anyone else that other people (whoever they are) are potential danger. That of course isn't limited to the actual need for combat skills but the mentality of that society in about everything violence and crime related. Which also explain why so far he's been more or less disinterested in everyone that met him : they are just some random people who can't even understand his reasoning, some random thugs who barely know how to swing a bat and believe they can smash anyone, all those people bound to sibyl's saint words ... they're nowhere near to meet his expectations (less beat or outwit him) so why would he even care about winning over them? Slaying an ant and a ferocious bear are feats of different value.
However Kogami is different, he represents anything that Makishima can hardly find anywhere else in this world : a subtle mind that understands the beast inside everyone of us, who doesn't give a damn about what Sibyl has to say about him, who finds value in strengthening his body and crafting his fighting skill, who can understand Makishima himself. Yes, just the thought of someone like Ko draws a huge smile on his face ... so what would happen when, in what looks like a once in a lifetime event, he meets that person face to face? has a discussion with him in which he got quoted back in the way he'd like the best to be! fights him and is finding himself slightly pushed back and even got his breath cut (which is impressive considering how wounded his opponent is)! would he stay as stoic as usual? Obviously not, he'd rejoice and appreciate the thing to its fullest and show how entertained he is like never before.
So yeah, it's legit to me.

My CC spiked when I wrote this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Kagari died
Seems clear to me. The paralyze feature was overridden. The gun's shape seems to have been forced into lethal eliminator mode. The only reason we haven't seen Kagari's head a splode is out of the author's respect for the character. The only real justified argument against his death is that some people feel his character hasn't been sufficiently explored yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEroKing View Post
The Dominator morphed like it does when in lethal eliminator mode so means she can override the modes. R.I.P. Kagari
Strangely enough it looked like it was destroy decomposer mode and not eliminator ... but I might be wrong. Anyway that doesn't make Kagari less dead ;_;
__________________
Waaaaiii!
Pls, don't bully!
desrtsku is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 08:28   Link #144
cyth
ふひひ
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by desrtsku View Post
They live in a world where almost no one has to even think about defending themselves, which leads you to think that most people wouldn't even care about learning self defence techniques. For someone like Makishima who rejects Sibyl, having actual impressive combat skills is in itself pretty legit, as he understands more than anyone else that other people (whoever they are) are potential danger. That of course isn't limited to the actual need for combat skills but the mentality of that society in about everything violence and crime related. Which also explain why so far he's been more or less disinterested in everyone that met him : they are just some random people who can't even understand his reasoning, some random thugs who barely know how to swing a bat and believe they can smash anyone, all those people bound to sibyl's saint words ... they're nowhere near to meet his expectations (less beat or outwit him) so why would he even care about winning over them? Slaying an ant and a ferocious bear are feats of different value.
However Kogami is different, he represents anything that Makishima can hardly find anywhere else in this world : a subtle mind that understands the beast inside everyone of us, who doesn't give a damn about what Sibyl has to say about him, who finds value in strengthening his body and crafting his fighting skill, who can understand Makishima himself. Yes, just the thought of someone like Ko draws a huge smile on his face ... so what would happen when, in what looks like a once in a lifetime event, he meets that person face to face? has a discussion with him in which he got quoted back in the way he'd like the best to be! fights him and is finding himself slightly pushed back and even got his breath cut (which is impressive considering how wounded his opponent is)! would he stay as stoic as usual? Obviously not, he'd rejoice and appreciate the thing to its fullest and show how entertained he is like never before.
So yeah, it's legit to me.
THIS. Man, I would +r-r-r-rep you so hard if we still had the reputation system. I guess we're going to THIS everything from now on. But I digress, marvelously summated.
__________________
cyth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 09:05   Link #145
Roger Rambo
Sensei, aishite imasu
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
Quote:
Originally Posted by desrtsku View Post
THIS. This scene with Ko actually added some element for us to get a better in-depth view of his personality ... and nowhere near something like breaking his personality. I already had some assumptions before but now I'm pretty sure he's just the kind of person who seeks for another one who can take the best of him, which also pretty fits how he was always trying to push his former comrades to their limits (the Yuri girl and the cyber hunter dudes for instance) ... well that's just me (but I don't think I'm too far away from the truth).
They live in a world where almost no one has to even think about defending themselves, which leads you to think that most people wouldn't even care about learning self defence techniques. For someone like Makishima who rejects Sibyl, having actual impressive combat skills is in itself pretty legit, as he understands more than anyone else that other people (whoever they are) are potential danger. That of course isn't limited to the actual need for combat skills but the mentality of that society in about everything violence and crime related. Which also explain why so far he's been more or less disinterested in everyone that met him : they are just some random people who can't even understand his reasoning, some random thugs who barely know how to swing a bat and believe they can smash anyone, all those people bound to sibyl's saint words ... they're nowhere near to meet his expectations (less beat or outwit him) so why would he even care about winning over them? Slaying an ant and a ferocious bear are feats of different value.
However Kogami is different, he represents anything that Makishima can hardly find anywhere else in this world : a subtle mind that understands the beast inside everyone of us, who doesn't give a damn about what Sibyl has to say about him, who finds value in strengthening his body and crafting his fighting skill, who can understand Makishima himself. Yes, just the thought of someone like Ko draws a huge smile on his face ... so what would happen when, in what looks like a once in a lifetime event, he meets that person face to face? has a discussion with him in which he got quoted back in the way he'd like the best to be! fights him and is finding himself slightly pushed back and even got his breath cut (which is impressive considering how wounded his opponent is)! would he stay as stoic as usual? Obviously not, he'd rejoice and appreciate the thing to its fullest and show how entertained he is like never before.
So yeah, it's legit to me.
My CC spiked when I wrote this.
Yeah, pretty much this.

I mean really. Hasn't it been obvious that Makishima has been fascinated by violence from very early on in this show? While he enjoys interpreting his interest through philosophy and intellectual discourse, the core of what he enjoys is visceral and predatory. Frankly it's goofy to be surprised that a guy like this wouldn't enjoy himself if in taking down someone as dangerous as Kougami.


Really. Murder is too energy intensive to be taken up as a hobby by someone who completely aloof and intellectual.
Roger Rambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 10:14   Link #146
orion
Waiting for more taiyuki!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by desrtsku View Post
THIS. This scene with Ko actually added some element for us to get a better in-depth view of his personality ... and nowhere near something like breaking his personality. I already had some assumptions before but now I'm pretty sure he's just the kind of person who seeks for another one who can take the best of him, which also pretty fits how he was always trying to push his former comrades to their limits (the Yuri girl and the cyber hunter dudes for instance) ... well that's just me (but I don't think I'm too far away from the truth).
They live in a world where almost no one has to even think about defending themselves, which leads you to think that most people wouldn't even care about learning self defence techniques. For someone like Makishima who rejects Sibyl, having actual impressive combat skills is in itself pretty legit, as he understands more than anyone else that other people (whoever they are) are potential danger. That of course isn't limited to the actual need for combat skills but the mentality of that society in about everything violence and crime related. Which also explain why so far he's been more or less disinterested in everyone that met him : they are just some random people who can't even understand his reasoning, some random thugs who barely know how to swing a bat and believe they can smash anyone, all those people bound to sibyl's saint words ... they're nowhere near to meet his expectations (less beat or outwit him) so why would he even care about winning over them? Slaying an ant and a ferocious bear are feats of different value.
However Kogami is different, he represents anything that Makishima can hardly find anywhere else in this world : a subtle mind that understands the beast inside everyone of us, who doesn't give a damn about what Sibyl has to say about him, who finds value in strengthening his body and crafting his fighting skill, who can understand Makishima himself. Yes, just the thought of someone like Ko draws a huge smile on his face ... so what would happen when, in what looks like a once in a lifetime event, he meets that person face to face? has a discussion with him in which he got quoted back in the way he'd like the best to be! fights him and is finding himself slightly pushed back and even got his breath cut (which is impressive considering how wounded his opponent is)! would he stay as stoic as usual? Obviously not, he'd rejoice and appreciate the thing to its fullest and show how entertained he is like never before.
So yeah, it's legit to me.
Totally agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desrtsku View Post
Strangely enough it looked like it was destroy decomposer mode and not eliminator ... but I might be wrong. Anyway that doesn't make Kagari less dead ;_;
Maybe she missed. She was also shot.
__________________
orion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 10:32   Link #147
Cosmic Eagle
宿命に全てを奪われた少女
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 宿命と時間の巻きに
So...chances Sybil is sentient a'la Skynet?
__________________
Cosmic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 11:00   Link #148
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by desrtsku View Post
Strangely enough it looked like it was destroy decomposer mode and not eliminator ... but I might be wrong. Anyway that doesn't make Kagari less dead ;_;
You're right. It was destroy decomposer. Kagari is deader than dead. He didn't even attempt to dodge the shot.

And I totally agree about Makishima. His behavior was in no way inconsistent with what we had already seen of him and it added another layer of complexity to his personality. He actually strikes me as more human after this episode. A pretentious and morally twisted human, but a human nevertheless.
__________________
Mikan & Yami
Kanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 11:48   Link #149
Roger Rambo
Sensei, aishite imasu
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
You're right. It was destroy decomposer. Kagari is deader than dead. He didn't even attempt to dodge the shot.

And I totally agree about Makishima. His behavior was in no way inconsistent with what we had already seen of him and it added another layer of complexity to his personality. He actually strikes me as more human after this episode. A pretentious and morally twisted human, but a human nevertheless.
This.

For a guy whose philosophy is so grounded around self actualization of visceral desire, the interpretation that some people have had of him is awfully robotic. Like he was some kind of machine that only carried out his actions because it was some kind of innate mechanical function. That'd be impossible for a guy so fascinated by people letting something inside them loose and reveling in it, wouldn't ever be willing to do the same thing.
Roger Rambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 13:14   Link #150
U. N. Owen
Realistic Idealist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: R'lyeh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicious108 View Post
In case you missed it, Makishima has been characterized as someone a tad different from "all people". And more importantly, up until now, he was shown to be someone uninterested in base physical stimulation, usually preferring to observe and test those around him and being generally more concerned with the meaning behind one's actions than the actions themselves. So yes, his behavior in this episode did cheapen his character somewhat, in my view.
Of course he's different. He still possesses a free will in the society of herded sheep that is Sibyl. While he has been uninterested in base physical stimulation, he obviously had very high expectations of Kougami. Engaging in combat with someone who you have a bit of an obsession with goes a bit beyond "base physical stimulation", wouldn't you think?

Well, one man's character regression is another's character development, I suppose. I for one was delighted to see him so, well, delighted. If anything, I think it added to his character- maybe not in the way some people wanted, but I'm satisfied with it, and I know I'm not alone in that.
__________________
U. N. Owen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 13:38   Link #151
Kirarakim
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Personally I like Makishima more after this episode too. I mean I loved him as the charming "philosopher" villain but I almost felt he came off too perfect & I was starting to get bored of him always being two steps ahead of everyone, except Kou.

The fact that he could let his guard down and forget about Akane (or not even think her as important) because he was so focused on the thrill of facing Kougami made him a more realistic villain for me.

The fact that he got bopped on the head doesn't take away anything from Makishima's charm & intelligence for me. It just makes Akane all the more cooler that she was able to take him down. Sure it was simple, maybe it didn't seem worthy enough for some people. But sometimes simple is the best way to get the job done.

Anyways Makishima's character was not assassinated at all for me, even though Akane & Kagari were certainly the stars of this episode.
__________________
Kirarakim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 15:08   Link #152
Mentar
Sore wa himitsu desu!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 44
Well... to all Urobutcher fans, I think this episode was his typical "kickoff". This time he spent 1.3 instead of 0.3 seasons to explain the background and build up the characters, and now he's going to let the hell break loose. The fact that we finally "caught up" to episode 1 should be hint enough that the end run starts NOW.

A couple of observations/predictions based on my Urobutcher fanboy antenna:

1) Fairly obvious for 0 points: The "end boss" will become the Sybil system. Maybe Kagari's death will already be sufficient to cause Akane and folks to look into things, but it's evident that the system defends its secrets with lethal force.

2) Rein in your Makishima hate. I'm convinced that this guy will play a pivotal role in the resolution on the side of Akane. Why? Because of the effort the Urobutcher took in playing up the "kill him" decision underlining how hard it was for her to control her hate and to show mercy. Urobuchi Gen likes to construct his stories with stringent logic, and Akane's restraint will prove to be critical in "winning". Makishima is an anomaly that Sibyl can't gauge, and I wouldn't be surprised if in the end, Akane will need him to defeat Sibyl.

3) Gino is living on borrowed time and primed for heartbreak, betrayal and death. It will be his blind, fanatic loyalty to Sibyl that will prove to be his doom - but first, he'll be in a world of hurt. I bet that if we look it up, his middle name is "Sayaka". Unfortunately, I suspect that his father will be going first. The Urobutcher likes to kill his flies _after_ tearing out the wings.

Looking forward to how things develop from here ... nobody writes "everything is going to hell" sequences better than HIM.
Mentar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 15:51   Link #153
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
I'm inclined to think Mentar is right.

Gen likes to reward protagonists who learn to conquer their own inner flaws or weaknesses and/or don't give in to dark temptations in the first place.

On the flip side, he punishes protagonists that can't or won't make these necessary self-corrections.


Akane's choice to let Makishima live strikes me as a pivotal moment for her character, and the narrative as a whole. Her making that choice, and showing that restraint, will likely pave the way to this anime resolving with Akane's success.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 16:43   Link #154
Roger Rambo
Sensei, aishite imasu
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
2) Rein in your Makishima hate. I'm convinced that this guy will play a pivotal role in the resolution on the side of Akane. Why? Because of the effort the Urobutcher took in playing up the "kill him" decision underlining how hard it was for her to control her hate and to show mercy. Urobuchi Gen likes to construct his stories with stringent logic, and Akane's restraint will prove to be critical in "winning". Makishima is an anomaly that Sibyl can't gauge, and I wouldn't be surprised if in the end, Akane will need him to defeat Sibyl.
That is a distinct possibility.

And frankly, at this point it's looking like there's more potential for intriguing interaction between Akane and Makishima than there is for Kougami and Makishima. Lets face it. Kougami isn't interested in anything other than killing Makishima no matter what. Makishima if nothing else is somewhat reflective. I wanna see what he thinks of Akane now.

cause frankly, I don't think Makishima has ever met somebody who had the self control to not kill when they wanted to out of an internal sense of morality.
Roger Rambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 17:48   Link #155
Dengar
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 29
It takes great restraint to realise that death isn't the appropreate punishment.
Dengar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 18:30   Link #156
U. N. Owen
Realistic Idealist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: R'lyeh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
*snip*
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
The fact that we finally "caught up" to episode 1 should be hint enough that the end run starts NOW.
Prepare your bodies for feels colliding in rapid succession.
__________________
U. N. Owen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 19:04   Link #157
Mich666
Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Well... Bodies... bodies in the water...

Images
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

I guess P.K.Dick wasn't mentioned all for nothing in the last ep.

Last edited by Hunter; 2013-02-11 at 11:53.
Mich666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 20:56   Link #158
HandofFate
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haruyasha View Post
That still doesn't make sense though. The signal is routed to the antenna at the very top of the tower. If it's "right there", then it would have functioned within the enclosed area.. However, as Cheguson points out, when they're inside it, they are shielded from the Sibyl System.
I'm with the reasoning mentioned earlier that she's acting as a type of Sibyl Avatar, so it would make sense she be able to 'connect'
__________________
...
HandofFate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 21:33   Link #159
Qilin
Romanticist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 23
Hm. I don't think we got that much new stuff to chew on aside from that little plot twist at the end. Well, it ended up being a predictable plot twist. The moment their team split up, it was pretty clear that Kagari's head was already set on the chopping block. It's a shame though. He was a pretty cool character.

As for that confrontation between Makishima and Kogami, I found it brutal but satisfying. For a character like Makishima to derive enjoyment from such a practice is just fitting, now that I think of it. To give it your all while putting your life on the line, to live on the thrill that can only be supplied by unfettered raw emotion, is exactly what is lacking in the society they live in. It lacks that sense of urgency that forces humans to live their lives to the fullest. That scuffle was pretty much a quick gratification of everything that Makishima sought for.

In the end though, it looks like the system found a way to suppress the threat. I'd hazard a guess that the system might not have been in that much trouble in the first place, seeing as it seems that the Director was just expecting them to show up. Still, it seems that things are far from over at this point.

From this point, I'm looking to Akane to cause some waves here. She showed remarkable self-control in sparing Makishima's life here. Before, even amidst the influence of characters like Kogami, Makishima, and Ginoza, she seems to have a solid grip on her emotions. In a sense, she's the strongest character in the series. As such, if anyone is going to take the initiative of doing whatever needs to be done, it would be her.
__________________
Damaged Goods
"There’s an up higher than up, but at the very top, down is all there is."
Qilin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-09, 21:50   Link #160
Cosmic Eagle
宿命に全てを奪われた少女
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 宿命と時間の巻きに
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post

Sibyl/Chief crash landed some centuries ago and needs to power her spaceship with the power (brains?) of criminally asymptomatic people. She just wants to go hooooooooomeeeee .
That's actually much better than Sybil being a rogue AI.....I really hope it doesn't go that way. It's so much better if humans were actively involved and complicit in making their society that way rather than the work of some wetware...
__________________
Cosmic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 23:43.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.