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Old 2013-02-08, 20:14   Link #1361
Graveyard Duck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
I must say I certainly don't see that in the anime. From what I see the ice general trying to retreat (otherwise why is he leaving the fortified fortress?)
Retreating by heading directly toward the enemy's homeland, eh?
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Old 2013-02-08, 20:22   Link #1362
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
He attacked the human camp, which is on the opposite side of the escape route. (The Gate is to the south of the island, the humans came from the north.) Notice, also, that he's alone - he ordered his men to escape without him.

Spoiler for manga:



Because he wanted to satisfy his pride with one last duel to the death with the enemy general. That was a mercy on her part.
Spoiler for manga:



Because she didn't want them to let down their guard. What if the demons rallied before the humans consolidated their position? What if they left stragglers behind, waiting for an opportunity to kill officers, maybe even the Winter King?

Spoiler for manga:
Anh, my friend. I think you should only argue the points posted by an anime-only watcher like fukarming with what was actually presented in the anime (thus removing those manga details you inserted), unless he is asking for more details from other sources. If not, it will only become a comparison between different materials again which won’t help this anime thread. Just a suggestion . I myself haven't watched the latest episode yet so I can't comment on it (yet).
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Old 2013-02-08, 20:25   Link #1363
Anh_Minh
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*shrug* If it takes manga knowledge to argue, I try to shut up. In this case, I disagreed even just from a anime-only POV, and the manga wasn't about future events, so I posted them as complements.
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Old 2013-02-08, 20:47   Link #1364
zRichard
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I'm just going to expand on one of Anh_Minh's arguments to fukarming, who got some events confused.

The Gateway Army, while having superior numbers, were exhausted and not at the ideal mental health (Hero's illusions). This was reported to Maou's group and she said that the forces would be evenly matched because of that. Then came the report that Ice General was not with his army. So, anime-only knowledge is more than enough to say "Ice General could have chosen to retreat with his men. He'd probably have made it."


EDIT: I also liked how they touched on the Hero's solitude. How Archer was sorry for leaving everything on Hero's shoulders. This is a direct attack to something that most classic JRPGs are guilty of.
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Old 2013-02-08, 21:48   Link #1365
kagato3
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And so we come to the end of the first novel. The humans have regained their lost teritory and opened the south seas up to be used for trade and fishing. The human comander in gate city seeks to make peace with the demons. And Hero finaly has his long awaited reunion with Ma....Knight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frubam View Post
But it looked ugly =02. Plenty of moments in this ep where the animation quality took a big nosedive(not the 1st time in the series, but still..). This being the 1st "real" battle shown in terms of stronger powers, they could have at least choreographed and animated it much better than they did. According to Hero and Demon Queen, the Arctic General was supposed to be one of the strongest demons in the demon world, yet, it barely looks like Female Knight broke a sweat; and she's not even as strong as Hero(which is very unusual for humans to be greatly superior than demons). They should have at least given the impression that he is a force to be reckoned with aside from knocking off a few grunts, and the show failed to give me that impression. And I say this with no regard to the manga version mind you. The music and FK's banter during that fight was superb though.

One thing this ep did do right was the pacing; they managed to stay on one event for the whole episode. And, again, the best moment was Hero/DQ/FK moment which ALWAYS seems to put a smile on my face =03.
All of Hero's party are insanely strong. It's just he is much stronger then they are. Hero also stated he had fought the Arctic General a few times meaning he had either fought him with Knight or before she joined and since it is based off of old school CRPG's he's likely now a lot lower level then she is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
I must say I certainly don't see that in the anime. From what I see the ice general trying to retreat (otherwise why is he leaving the fortified fortress?), and yet mercilessly cut down by the female knight. The female knight after killing ice general even said "dont rejoice yet, exterminate the remaining enemy"
While Artic General had sounded a retreat through the reinforcements comeing from Gate City. He himself was atacking the humans base camp to the north as a last stand. Also Kinght in no way "mercilessly cut him down" as she offers him a chance to retreat which he refuses. Cleaning up the remaining enemies does not imply she is going after the retreating enemies just any that remain on the island as her following line is to search the island.
Quote:
Brutus and Wang JingWei have reasons to betray other than personal ambition (at least some scholar believe so), but in a universal sense they are well known traitor.


Let me use an example: during Japanese warring states the puppet Shogun unite other Daimyo to fight against Nobunaga, that is "borrow a knife to kill someone". If he borrowed troops from China to fight Nobunaga, that is treason. Do you agree?
It is clear in the anime that Maou did not want the demons to die she wanted thier to be as few losses as possable on both sides
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Old 2013-02-08, 22:05   Link #1366
D-KLAC
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ep.6

red queen & big sis maid had some talk then ask what is war is really about? while our hero is doing scaring soldiers as a headless knight with help from fairies.

then female knight arrive area to meet winter ruler & old guy then come red queen give old guy wonder red queen's "meat" got bottle smack by female knight.

so red queen offer to help winter land is help build a bridge to cross battle sea demons then big battle is on & then the hero teleport to winter base then big walrus appear.

cue female knight vs big walrus with end knight slash to defeat walrus now victory dinner, female kinght & red queen in fancy outfit while the hero & old guy had some talks about how they been doing & good times.
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Old 2013-02-08, 22:14   Link #1367
fukarming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
nope,

there are more then a few example of City-States during China Spring/Autumn Warring State period borrowing troops form barbarians.
Wu/Shu/Wei all made use of barbarian troops during the Three-Kingdom period as well.
Simon Lee, 2nd Emperor of the Tang Dynasty (Also counted as Greatest Emperor of China) also borrow barbarian troops during Civil War following the collapse of the Sui Dynasty.
Since you like Chinese history I will use chinese history as counter. Do you consider Shi Jingtang 石敬塘 as traitors of the Chinese? Maou gifted the human world Bright Island so they can kill the ice general for her, similar to what Shi Jingtang do. Especially since she did not retake gate city, gate city simply turn neutral.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
What makes her different? How about the fact that the "courageous" general took over that city in direct defiance of her orders? Or the fact that he was trying to provoke the humans through constant raids?

The reason Hero is running around in the Demon World is to prevent any of the other tribes from doing the same thing and causing an enormous bloody war that would last years.
Did he provoke humans through constant raids? I see human do lots of evil stuff in gate city but I don't see the evil deeds done by the ice general (or demon tribe in general).



I checked out the source material and finally understand what you all are saying regarding the ice general.

btw, that map graveyard duck posted is what initially fuel my confusion: the demon army is going South, which is retreating to the demon territory (and where the crusader are). I didn't catch the ice general left his army to stall the main group.

The ice general don't have the knowledge that the crusader army is weak. If he had known he would have retreated. He thinks the crusader army is similar in strength to the female knight, thus he sacrificed himself to stall the main army to avoid being sandwiched.

So the main point is, what happened to the 7500 demon army (which escape to the South)? Total annihilation as the main army able to "help" the crusader army? Fight a bloody battle with the crusader and both side suffer huge losses? Of course ideally, the crusader army is such wuss that they open up a path to let the demon army escape back to demon territory. but I am leaning towards total annihilation given what I see on screen.

btw, while Maou said on screen that she hope the demon able to retreat, and that's all she does. She did nothing to help the demon tribe to retreat.
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Old 2013-02-08, 22:41   Link #1368
Elestia
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There was indeed a drop in the animation quality, even some of the main character's had a noticeable drop due to the budget constraints. Overall it was quite decent, although they cut some stuff in order to save time.

The introduction of the fire arrows in the beginning of the episode was a tease.

They cut out Young Merchant and the trade of salt for forming the ice bridge mass.

The ending dialogue with Archer Grandpa and Hero about him being too strong was nice though the beginning part was kind of rushed.

Did like Lelouch voice FukuJun in Gateway City.

They made the commander of the crusader army a lot less intimidating and raving mad.

They skipped the announcement of the Southern Nation as well. They're probably going to do it next episode it seems.

The enemy Ice General looked silly I could hardly take him seriously with his face.
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Old 2013-02-09, 01:54   Link #1369
zRichard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
So the main point is, what happened to the 7500 demon army (which escape to the South)?
Oh that was missing info. But there should be a report on that in the following episodes. Leaving gateway city was not a small deal after all.
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Old 2013-02-09, 03:16   Link #1370
GundamZZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zRichard View Post
Oh that was missing info. But there should be a report on that in the following episodes. Leaving gateway city was not a small deal after all.
The fan speculation already showed up. Since "Constantinople" is recovered, they become the potential trade partner. It looks like suspicously imperialism.
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Old 2013-02-09, 04:28   Link #1371
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
Since you like Chinese history I will use chinese history as counter. Do you consider Shi Jingtang 石敬塘 as traitors of the Chinese? Maou gifted the human world Bright Island so they can kill the ice general for her, similar to what Shi Jingtang do. Especially since she did not retake gate city, gate city simply turn neutral.
"Neutral" while in demon territory and having only a tiny garrison of humans? It was, for all practical purposes, retaken. The human left there just planned to beg for mercy and leave for him, his men, and their civilian support to live there.
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Old 2013-02-09, 04:56   Link #1372
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Back from a trip and just finished watching episode 6.

Well, what can I say, I really like this episode. Unlike previous episodes, the pacing this time is very good and most of the information aren’t that quickly thrown like bullets from a machine-gun, making the plot easy to understand. Hell, they even gave Hero a little time to shine. After watching previous episodes, I really wasn’t expecting them to show us Hero’s work in Gate City. Seriously, it’s a miracle! Yeah, I know, animation isn’t perfect (due to budget, I assume) but what we get is miles better than Hero’s slideshow in eps 4. Female Knight’s fight with Ice General is quite exciting to watch. And finally, a nice little closing with the dialogue between Hero and Grandpa Archer, his comrade from his overpowered party years ago. Glad that someone finally clearly addressed that due to his super-overkill power, Hero's been kinda lonely deep inside. Anyway, damn pervert geezer, his interest in Maou’s boobs even override his sharp instinct . Well, that’s Grandpa Archer for you.

Btw, from the look of things now, is it possible that my guess some pages ago was right that they decide to change the scriptwriter since episode 5? Well, if it’s true then whoever he is, I’d like the studio to keep him. On the other hand, the art director also done well this time. It’s sad to let him go since it seems that they use different director each episode.

Anyway, this episode is definitely one of the best so far (aside from episode 1).
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Old 2013-02-09, 07:06   Link #1373
zRichard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Btw, from the look of things now, is it possible that my guess some pages ago was right that they decide to change the scriptwriter since episode 5? Well, if itís true then whoever he is, Iíd like the studio to keep him.
ANN's page shows that Naruhisa Arakawa has been credited for the scrip from episodes 1 to 6.

Still, it's probable that they made some changes in the way they were working out the series because of how hard the pre-orders slowed down after the early adopters first rush.
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Old 2013-02-09, 07:12   Link #1374
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Never taught I'll see a battle in this one.... a bloody one..
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Old 2013-02-09, 10:26   Link #1375
kagato3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Back from a trip and just finished watching episode 6.

Well, what can I say, I really like this episode. Unlike previous episodes, the pacing this time is very good and most of the information arenít that quickly thrown like bullets from a machine-gun, making the plot easy to understand. Hell, they even gave Hero a little time to shine. After watching previous episodes, I really wasnít expecting them to show us Heroís work in Gate City. Seriously, itís a miracle! Yeah, I know, animation isnít perfect (due to budget, I assume) but what we get is miles better than Heroís slideshow in eps 4. Female Knightís fight with Ice General is quite exciting to watch. And finally, a nice little closing with the dialogue between Hero and Grandpa Archer, his comrade from his overpowered party years ago. Glad that someone finally clearly addressed that due to his super-overkill power, Hero's been kinda lonely deep inside. Anyway, damn pervert geezer, his interest in Maouís boobs even override his sharp instinct . Well, thatís Grandpa Archer for you.
Maybe, maybe not. Remember the seal that marks her as the Maou is on her boobs. I'm not sure the anime has made him seem quite as sly as in the other media. He's still just as big a pervert though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Never taught I'll see a battle in this one.... a bloody one..
Given the goal is to end a war of this scale it's reasonable to believe there will be some battles shown. Way back in ep 1 they even admited what they are going to do will kill a lot of people the up side is it will hopefully save many times more. And the series does not skimp on showing war for what it is for both the good and bad.


Thinking on it I'm starting to bet the traditional DVD only 13th ep will end up being Hero's adventures as Dark Knight as they tend to be both the most fansevicey and least important to the story given all the important info was covered in a 3 min letter, but we will see.
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Old 2013-02-09, 11:43   Link #1376
MrTerrorist
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Damm that was a good episode. The battles between Female Knight's forces and Arctic General's demons was well done.

So many deaths. So much brutality.

Also, Female Knight look hot in that dress.
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Old 2013-02-09, 17:20   Link #1377
NK141
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I really quite enjoyed this episode, the others were a little bland but still a good watch hopefully gets better from here!
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Old 2013-02-09, 17:32   Link #1378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
Thinking on it I'm starting to bet the traditional DVD only 13th ep will end up being Hero's adventures as Dark Knight as they tend to be both the most fansevicey and least important to the story given all the important info was covered in a 3 min letter, but we will see.
I hope we'll see a hot celebration between the two lovers... or I see death flags again...
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Old 2013-02-09, 21:25   Link #1379
HandofFate
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wow the war is brutal.

Wished they touch a bit more on the maou's feeling at how she basically allowed and help the humans kill off 10,000 of her own kind.
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Old 2013-02-09, 21:53   Link #1380
Master_Yoma
Nekokota Festival
 
 
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This war is brought to you by Fishy Joes Ride the Walrus

Dam Futurama all I thought about when I seen the Walrus
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