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Old 2013-02-13, 18:05   Link #41
Alchemist007
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
I'm not exactly sure WHAT happens when you seal part of your chakra someplace. Some parts of the story seems to imply that it acts kind of like a second you, other parts imply that all the different parts of you are connected to eachother somehow and share information.

Which kind of contradicts eachother I guess.
I'm thinking it might be like Kage-bunshin (something made from chakra). Once it disappears, you gain all of its knowledge.
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Old 2013-02-13, 18:13   Link #42
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I'm in anticipation of seeing Hashirama interact with Madara; it should be pretty funny to read considering they both have such trollish personalities. I was also looking forward to reading Orochimaru's true reason for attacking the leaf, unfortunately it has yet to be revealed. Given his brief discussion with Sasuke, it seems Orochimaru didn't merely act on a whim after-all. And, considering Orochimaru's insightful comments during the conversation, and his insistence on Sasuke receiving his answers, it seems that whatever Oro's reason is, it may be similar to Sasuke's. He seems unusually sympathetic to Sasuke's quest for information.
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Old 2013-02-13, 18:29   Link #43
james0246
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Which kind of contradicts eachother I guess.
Yeah, Kishimoto has been fairly loose with just how the soul and chakra interact and react to each other, especially in the case of Orochimaru.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
i still dont get or like the idea of the senju... if mokuton wasn't their clan's power (which it seems not to be) then what was so special about them? what is their power exactly?
They were the clan of a 1000 skills (something unique back in the day when most clans mastered only a set skill list (ala the Nara, Yamanaka, etc)). They descended from the Sage, bearing his blessed body (?) and strong physical energy. Mokuton is probably derived from this connection to the Sage, but there has been no evidence that it was a clan technique, so I expect Hashirama's genetic structure was simply the most like the original descendent. Whatever the case, they had unique powers that made them extremely strong.

Why Hashirama posses mokuton is the real mystery.
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Old 2013-02-13, 19:08   Link #44
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Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
I'm thinking it might be like Kage-bunshin (something made from chakra). Once it disappears, you gain all of its knowledge.
It is expressly stated that shadow clones are able to share knowledge among eachother, but not why that is. All clones are made of chakra but not all of them have this network.
So I guess Minato really doesn't know anything that happened. At least that's the conclusion I drew from the few lines he got. Or he's being coy about it.
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Old 2013-02-13, 19:09   Link #45
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The cross-breeding is what made the descendents so weak. Pure blood weakened. Only way to keep it going pure is incest and that doesn't do well after a generation or two, lol.

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Originally Posted by gibits View Post
It is expressly stated that shadow clones are able to share knowledge among eachother, but not why that is. All clones are made of chakra but not all of them have this network.
So I guess Minato really doesn't know anything that happened. At least that's the conclusion I drew from the few lines he got. Or he's being coy about it.
When did he reveal that he has the knowledge from the copy inside the seal? What he said simply acknowledged the reason he performed the seal on Naruto.
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Old 2013-02-13, 19:10   Link #46
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Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
it seems Orochimaru didn't merely act on a whim after-all. And, considering Orochimaru's insightful comments during the conversation, and his insistence on Sasuke receiving his answers, it seems that whatever Oro's reason is, it may be similar to Sasuke's. He seems unusually sympathetic to Sasuke's quest for information.
Orochimaru does seem to be acting kind of docile (docile for Oro at least). It's weird he seems to be so eager to help Sasuke. He's almost been showing genuine camaraderie. If he wants to goad Sasuke into destroying Konoha, what he's doing right now is the last thing he should be doing. And considering how Sasuke royally screwed him I don't see why he would really want to help him at all. Who knows what his true motive is.
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Old 2013-02-13, 20:10   Link #47
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Originally Posted by gibits View Post
It is expressly stated that shadow clones are able to share knowledge among eachother, but not why that is. All clones are made of chakra but not all of them have this network.
So I guess Minato really doesn't know anything that happened. At least that's the conclusion I drew from the few lines he got. Or he's being coy about it.
The kage bunshin transfers knowledge only if it's willingly dispelled, and not destroyed. In Minato's case the chakra of his clone was completely consumed by restoring the seal, so there was nothing to return to the original. Apparently one's chakra is like his DNA, it holds all physical information about that person, it can even hold a copy of it's mind when they use clones. Orochimaru has apparently combined this ability with sage powers and so his clones do not fade away like regular clones, as regular clones cannot produce chakra so when the chakra in them is depleted they just disappear. And if that's true than the current Orochimaru is not the real one, it's just a copy but it's just as good as if it was the original one. So if this is the case then Orochimaru designed his immortality just like the internet was designed: you can kill any body of him, even the original, but as long as there's one alive he won't die. It would be cool is sage-Naruto could do this with his kage bunshins, since he is a clone specialist this could be his ultimate clone jutsu, it wouldn't matter any more which is the original. As for different clones being able to return information to the original one or other clones, it seems odd that being far away or even sealed there could be such a connection, but even in the real world there's some part of string theory that implies it could be possible that two particles at opposite ends of the universe can be connected
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Old 2013-02-13, 20:27   Link #48
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I think this chapter flows well. I like how the Hokages were trying to go out knowing that some serious shit is going on out there. In contrast, it would be really strange if they just obey anything they are ordered to without some semblance of resistance (considering their personalities are still intact). Due to that, they felt like true characters with different issues and motivation instead of just talking-heads who spout narrative whenever Sasuke or Oro want them to.
Indeed, thats the point. insignificant, but also important. We could see Hashirama's wisdom (he's better than hiruzen at this point, and looking to resolve the potentially dangerous Sasuke rather than Madara at the battlefield) and power (OFC)

and how Hiruzen looks funny to see his ex-mentors action and behaviour

Good stories always need this thing. Be patient guys
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Old 2013-02-13, 20:29   Link #49
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
this was answered a while ago by kabuto when talking to edo-deidara. tobirama just elaborated a little

i still dont get or like the idea of the senju... if mokuton wasn't their clan's power (which it seems not to be) then what was so special about them? what is their power exactly? why were they on equal footing with the uchiha who had all the sharingan techniques at their disposal? and of course, what the hell happened to them? how is only hashirama's granddaughter left and why doesnt she (a direct descendant) at least have mokuton? none of it makes sense. hopefully some of it gets answered, but no matter what it's going to be a bit lame of an explanation. lamer than love/loss creating the sharingan chakra
I thought the Senju's power was ridiculous chakra and stamina.

As for "what happened to them", I don't think anything really did happen to them. It's possible the NAME has become a bit rare, but it seems to me that their lineage exists amongst a lot of the Leaf's members.
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Old 2013-02-13, 20:36   Link #50
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They were the clan of a 1000 skills (something unique back in the day when most clans mastered only a set skill list (ala the Nara, Yamanaka, etc)). They descended from the Sage, bearing his blessed body (?) and strong physical energy.
yea but this explanation is what i'm complaining about. it's so vague. for a clan that was supposed to be the best of all ninja clans tied with the uchiha, or a little better actually, we know way too little about them. 1000 skills is more of a sarutobi clan trait imo. the senju need to have something major going for them that counterbalances the insane sharingan techniques of the uchiha. kage level uchiha have MS techniques, izanagi, izanami, insanely powerful genjutsus, etc... vs the senju who do what exactly? hashirama aside since none of the others have mokuton. it seems to me that the uchiha are more impressive power wise and therefore the rivalry and truce make little to no sense

Quote:
Why Hashirama posses mokuton is the real mystery.
it's certainly a big one. i would like much more information on the senju of the past and where they are currently or why they are extinct.
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Old 2013-02-13, 20:38   Link #51
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i can't believe Hashirama wasn't shocked when he heard that Madara was trying to erase all the shinobi in the world. He thought he had killed madara right? and his reaction was like, sigh the worlds always at war. Like he wasn't even surprised that Madara was doing all this.
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Old 2013-02-13, 20:39   Link #52
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@Itachi: Well, like I said in the post just preceding yours. It could be that only the NAME has become a bit rare.
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Old 2013-02-13, 22:24   Link #53
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i can't believe Hashirama wasn't shocked when he heard that Madara was trying to erase all the shinobi in the world. He thought he had killed madara right? and his reaction was like, sigh the worlds always at war. Like he wasn't even surprised that Madara was doing all this.
Orochimaru said that Madara was revived in the same sentence. Since they were also just revived with ET, it's not that surprising.
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Old 2013-02-13, 22:43   Link #54
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There has to be some type of extra power that comes with having senju blood besides higher stamina, willpower, etc. In order for a uchiha to be able to awaken the rinnegan they have to have senju dna....so something is definantly there.
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Old 2013-02-13, 23:08   Link #55
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
The kage bunshin transfers knowledge only if it's willingly dispelled, and not destroyed.
I'm pretty sure Naruto used kage bunshin to search for Sasuke and when the clone that found him was destroyed by chidori the real Naruto was immediately aware of it.

Quote:
And if that's true than the current Orochimaru is not the real one, it's just a copy but it's just as good as if it was the original one. So if this is the case then Orochimaru designed his immortality just like the internet was designed: you can kill any body of him, even the original, but as long as there's one alive he won't die. It would be cool is sage-Naruto could do this with his kage bunshins, since he is a clone specialist this could be his ultimate clone jutsu, it wouldn't matter any more which is the original.
Orochimaru's bunshin don't work that way. There's always one, original, Oro. He's virtually impossible to kill because he has crazy regenerative powers that basically allow him to shed his body like a snake. A few people actually have suggested that the "last clone alive becomes the real one" is the way Naruto's bunshins work too, but no one in the story has that power except possibly Katsuyu.
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Old 2013-02-14, 00:40   Link #56
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I honestly don't even know which Naruto is the real one anymore...

Maybe it is too soon to say Minato doesn't know anything. Coming back to life can be disorienting. For all he knows, thousands of years have pasted since he talked to Naruto. It sure seems like the Edo Tensei zombies don't experience anything time lapse from death to zombification. Negato basically says this to Naruto; that it felt like no time passed at all for him since he last talked to Naruto. Maybe Minato wanted to be correct when he answered Hashirama instead of making a wild guess.

Quick question: what was Tobirama doing when he released his chakra? Was he tappin his fingers or did he just raise his index finger?
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Old 2013-02-14, 01:25   Link #57
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yea but this explanation is what i'm complaining about. it's so vague. for a clan that was supposed to be the best of all ninja clans tied with the uchiha, or a little better actually, we know way too little about them. 1000 skills is more of a sarutobi clan trait imo. the senju need to have something major going for them that counterbalances the insane sharingan techniques of the uchiha. kage level uchiha have MS techniques, izanagi, izanami, insanely powerful genjutsus, etc... vs the senju who do what exactly? hashirama aside since none of the others have mokuton. it seems to me that the uchiha are more impressive power wise and therefore the rivalry and truce make little to no sense

it's certainly a big one. i would like much more information on the senju of the past and where they are currently or why they are extinct.
the senju are the yang to the uchiha yin. their inheritance from the sage or 10tails jinchuriki is physical chakra and vitality which i have assumed meant large chakra stores that make them very powerful nature manipulators.
as for hashirama, i am very curious as well to know why he is so special...everyone makes a point to say his "cells" as oppose to his "chakra". was he altered at birth with the help of the uzumaki clan? is he a reincarnation of the youngest son? i cant wait to learn more...
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Old 2013-02-14, 01:46   Link #58
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Why Hashirama posses mokuton is the real mystery.
I wouldn't say it is a mystery. Spontaneus mutations happen in the world. He probaby just got lucky with his DNA.
I think it's more interessting how everybody is so eager on getting a part of his wood power. What's so special about wood? IMHO there are better elements out there. Like those Kazekage's steel dust.

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
yea but this explanation is what i'm complaining about. it's so vague. for a clan that was supposed to be the best of all ninja clans tied with the uchiha, or a little better actually, we know way too little about them. 1000 skills is more of a sarutobi clan trait imo. the senju need to have something major going for them that counterbalances the insane sharingan techniques of the uchiha. kage level uchiha have MS techniques, izanagi, izanami, insanely powerful genjutsus, etc... vs the senju who do what exactly? hashirama aside since none of the others have mokuton. it seems to me that the uchiha are more impressive power wise and therefore the rivalry and truce make little to no sense
I can understand your point.
Maybe the Senju posess some sort of immunity to the Sharingan. This would at least make them kind of equal to the Uchiha and could explain why they looked Sasuke directly into the eyes completely carefree.


About the stamina and chakra: Wasn't this supposed to be a trait of the Uzumaki? So Hashirama's wife/Tsunade's grandmother?
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Old 2013-02-14, 06:01   Link #59
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Uzumaki have amazing regenerative abilities in addition to being pretty good chakra batteries.

Also, I think Uzumaki were an offshoot of the Senju clan anyways, so the point is moot from the beginning.
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Old 2013-02-14, 07:17   Link #60
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Has it ever been said how old Hashirama was when he died? He seems to be the youngest grandfather in the narutoverse. He obviously didn't die before her birth since he says himself that he spoiled her when she was young.

Or was this a result of his regenerative abilities?
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