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Old 2013-02-12, 05:27   Link #821
Daniel Lind
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What potential is there to fulfill? It's not as if Precure is worth watching for the plot or for drama.
A superhero show MUST have drama. It's not about eating cakes, even if that might be someone's cup of tea.
Yonemura's Rider works however prove that he has no idea what makes a superhero show tick.
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Old 2013-02-12, 08:43   Link #822
Liddo-kun
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
The Smile summer vacation episode is pretty fun. Lots of silliness all around, and Cure Beauty manages to save the day because she's boring. The artwork is pretty good too - you can tell the staff had fun making this episode. Of the different matches, I liked the Whack-a-Mole, Bowling and Painting ones the most - Cure Peace's little snort of victory is just too perfect!

It's not quite as good as the one in Heartcatch (because none of the cast can match Erika's sheer attitude), but it's highly entertaining.
I remember that episode. Quite fun, espescially when Cure Happy "showers" all the moles, which make them pop out of their holes.

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I'm not sure how anyone can say that Smile Precure is a bad show.
That's up to personal opinion of each viewer.


And on another topic, I'm still waiting for english subs of the smile movie.
It's the first precure movie to top box office.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...top-box-office

Last edited by Liddo-kun; 2013-02-12 at 08:59.
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Old 2013-02-12, 12:03   Link #823
4Tran
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Originally Posted by justsomeguy View Post
When you dismiss things like plot or character development or drama, all shows become "good." But please don't be snarky towards other people for having higher standards. Believe it or not, not all MOTW shows have the same level of quality in regards to the things you don't care about.
An interesting plot and strong drama can improve the quality of a show, but the lack thereof won't necessarily sink it. Ditto for character development. What a particular show needs of any of these elements is dependent on what kind of show it is, and how it generates entertaining content. Smile's strengths play to different elements, so it can be perfectly enjoyable even if they're absent - it's a lot like Looney Tunes that way.

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Else, by what standard do you claim that Heartcatch is good, or that Suite and Doki Doki are bad?
Heartcatch is better than Smile because it's better at the things that Smile is good at. It's way too early to pass any judgement on Doki Doki yet, and I hesitate to label Suite as a bad show - just uninspired. I passed on the latter because it stopped being fun.

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Originally Posted by Daniel Lind View Post
A superhero show MUST have drama.
Why?

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Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
I remember that episode. Quite fun, espescially when Cure Happy "showers" all the moles, which make them pop out of their holes.
The obvious lesson for kids is that if you're not winning a game, you should blast everything with magic powers!

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Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
That's up to personal opinion of each viewer.
True enough, but usually there are reasons why you'd call a show bad. Smile has good writing, mostly good characters, decent action, and enjoyable episodes. These point more to a show being good instead, so I can't help but wonder what those reasons are.
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Old 2013-02-12, 12:11   Link #824
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Heartcatch has the Cure Moonlight plot thread that goes through the entire series, with a large number of episodes that make some mention of it. And while the Cure Moonlight plot thread is not very dynamic, it's not entirely static in a status quo is god sort of way like "let's get more decors!" and "let's get more notes!" The other characters in Heartcatch didn't receive much development.
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Old 2013-02-12, 12:19   Link #825
Daniel Lind
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Why?
Because being a superhero is about overcoming challenges, it's the genre.
If that's not what you want to do, then you should make some other show.

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Smile has good writing, mostly good characters, decent action, and enjoyable episodes.
Yeah no.
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Old 2013-02-12, 12:31   Link #826
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What people like about Smile is not the plot - it's weak in that area. Many people like the characterization.
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Old 2013-02-12, 13:16   Link #827
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When we start comparing Precure to Looney Tunes, that goes to show what went wrong with this show. All of the other Precure seasons have aspired to being more than that. Not all succeeded, but they tried.
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Old 2013-02-12, 14:46   Link #828
4Tran
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Originally Posted by jcdietz03 View Post
Heartcatch has the Cure Moonlight plot thread that goes through the entire series, with a large number of episodes that make some mention of it. And while the Cure Moonlight plot thread is not very dynamic, it's not entirely static in a status quo is god sort of way like "let's get more decors!" and "let's get more notes!" The other characters in Heartcatch didn't receive much development.
Sunshine is quite different by the end as well.

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Because being a superhero is about overcoming challenges, it's the genre.
If that's not what you want to do, then you should make some other show.
Why is this necessary if the show is entertaining as is?

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Originally Posted by Daniel Lind View Post
Yeah no.
Is there supposed to be some reasoning in addition to that?

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Originally Posted by jcdietz03 View Post
What people like about Smile is not the plot - it's weak in that area. Many people like the characterization.
I think that all Precure shows have weak plots. And for that matter, the same goes for Sailor Moon and almost all other magical girl shows as well. For this genre, the plot is there mostly to provide structure and context for individual episodes instead of propelling the narrative as found in some other genres.

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When we start comparing Precure to Looney Tunes, that goes to show what went wrong with this show. All of the other Precure seasons have aspired to being more than that. Not all succeeded, but they tried.
Would it please you more if I compared it to other cartoons like the Real Ghostbusters instead? My point is that a show that doesn't rely on drama or plot doesn't have to be bad because of that. And really, I'm not seeing a whole lot of knocks against Smile for what it does do. Especially not opposed to all those episodes packed with 20-odd minutes of undiluted fun.
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Old 2013-02-12, 17:07   Link #829
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Would it please you more if I compared it to other cartoons like the Real Ghostbusters instead? My point is that a show that doesn't rely on drama or plot doesn't have to be bad because of that. And really, I'm not seeing a whole lot of knocks against Smile for what it does do. Especially not opposed to all those episodes packed with 20-odd minutes of undiluted fun.
Nobody criticizes this show for what it does. What it does not do, on the other hand, is combine plot, drama, and character development and comedy. When there are elements missing that all other Precure seasons have managed, you expect people not to point this out?
Quite frankly, if the writer didn't want to go for those then he should have gotten rid of epic-scale enemies like Joker and Pierrot because those do not fit in a show that reject those things.
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Old 2013-02-14, 22:48   Link #830
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Here's my knee-jerk review that I wrote just after watching the finale. It's been a few weeks since then, but looking back on it, even with my more fond memories of earlier episodes of Smile vs less favorable memories of how the show ended up, I still stand by the review, so here it is.


So, it ended, and no, I didn't like the ending. While I liked some individual episodes of the show a lot, and it was very funny in a lot of places, it also has a lot of problems. The first is character depth, or lack thereof. From the beginning to the end, there isn't so much as a hint of a character arc for anyone involved, and even when the show does try any character development, it either leaves the characters at exactly the same place they were before it started, or it was a flashback, again, leaving the characters at status quo. The side characters fare even worse than the main cast, and the show almost never makes an attempt at having them being memorable, except some of the one-offs, even though some, like the other people in the class, are technically around every episode.

The second is the story, or lack thereof. There really wasn't any kind of story arc here, and in the finale episodes, it becomes a game of “recognize the story element” which are, conveniently, almost entirely pulled from other episodes in the franchise. Third, is the drama. Yeah, I get that I'm not watching fine cinema or anything, and yes, this is a kid's show, but damn. The drama never seems to work in the show, and far too often, it just boils down to overwrought crying. Compared to something like Ojamajo Doremi (which aired on the same channel and timeslot... which Precure replaced), where there is also a fair amount of crying, Doremi comes across as genuine and sincere, while Smile just has the characters bouncing from happy to moping extremes.

Next, the fights. Yeah, they were really weak also, with a couple of exceptions. I still maintain that the mid-season climax had some great battles, but most of them, and most importantly, the final one, were not very well done. I get that it's constrained by formula, but it's by working within the formula that many similar shows have become so good. If anything, Smile so doggedly follows the formula when pulling elements from other series that it doesn't have much identity on its own, and there's really no way of seeing the show as anything other than an iterative work of a franchise.

So, how does it compare to other series in the franchise? The animation is newer and smoother than the series prior to Heartcatch, and in a lot of ways is a greatly refined take on Precure 5, and also has more flair than Suite and more refined than Heartcatch was, so at least on an animation level, it compares favorably. It's also quite hilarious at many places, moreso than the others. It's also lacking where it's truly important.

While I can say that the script is much better than Max Heart (which I dropped), it doesn't compare well to any of the others on a lot of fronts. This is the only series to lack character and story arcs, the Monster of the Week fights aren't as entertaining as the others. Even Suite, which had largely non-threatening enemies, generally had more personality to them. The drama here is also the most forced and least natural, so it frequently comes across as grating.

So, in the end, the show is left with about a quarter of the episodes that I found to be really enjoyable, and a lot more that were weak, especially towards the ending. While I watched it to the end, I really can't recommend this series. If you're curious about Precure, just watch Heartcatch which is worlds better and off the beaten track, or maybe Suite, while not being the favorite like Heartcatch, is still a quality show and is more representative of the franchise as a whole.
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Old 2013-02-15, 01:15   Link #831
4Tran
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Episode 31

This is a Joker episode. He gives Wolfrun the black Akanbe nose and Wolfrun uses it to run wild on the Precures. The highlights are that Candy finally proves herself to be useful for once, and that this marks the first occasion that the Precure Rainbow Burst failed. It also serves to show that the Precures' original attacks are overall more visceral (and exciting!) than their super group finisher.

Other notes: the Royal Queen shows up, Royal Clock something or other, but who cares about any of that? There's that cliffhanger of course. I'm amused by them starting yet another Decor collection with nary a comment.

Overall, this was an okay episode that just isn't as fun as the last few have been. This is partly because Candy isn't a great character, so it's hard to feel all that much for her predicament, and may partly because dramatic moments don't come very naturally to Smile Precure. That cliffhanger at the end isn't all that effective, but that's mostly because we all know that nothing untoward will happen to the Precures. It'd be unusual for their predicament to remain unresolved beyond the next episode.

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Nobody criticizes this show for what it does. What it does not do, on the other hand, is combine plot, drama, and character development and comedy. When there are elements missing that all other Precure seasons have managed, you expect people not to point this out?
I'm doubtful that the other Precure shows combine these elements as much as you claim, but why does Smile need to do so? Is there some sort of scorecard for Precure prerequisites? From what I can see, Smile fulfills its own niche very well, so where's the problem? I guess you can say that it's different from the other Precure shows, but so what?

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Quite frankly, if the writer didn't want to go for those then he should have gotten rid of epic-scale enemies like Joker and Pierrot because those do not fit in a show that reject those things.
Why? Joker adds menace and some other neat dimensions that the other generals don't have. Isn't that enough reason to include him?

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Originally Posted by gsilver View Post
So, how does it compare to other series in the franchise? The animation is newer and smoother than the series prior to Heartcatch, and in a lot of ways is a greatly refined take on Precure 5, and also has more flair than Suite and more refined than Heartcatch was, so at least on an animation level, it compares favorably. It's also quite hilarious at many places, moreso than the others. It's also lacking where it's truly important.
I'm not really in a position to comment on your other points, but Smile falls short of the animation quality of Heartcatch. You can arguably claim that Smile has superior art design or character designs (although I wouldn't agree), but that's different from animation.
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Old 2013-02-15, 07:07   Link #832
Liddo-kun
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Other notes: the Royal Queen shows up, Royal Clock something or other, but who cares about any of that? There's that cliffhanger of course. I'm amused by them starting yet another Decor collection with nary a comment.
In my opinion though. Repeating the decor collecting gave a "recycling of idea" feeling to the anime. Scriptwriters could have thought of another quest for the precure to do on the second half of the series.

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Why? Joker adds menace and some other neat dimensions that the other generals don't have. Isn't that enough reason to include him?
This I agree. The evil clown added some nice interactions to the show. I won't say much more since you're only on episode 31.
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Old 2013-02-15, 09:14   Link #833
justsomeguy
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Why? Joker adds menace and some other neat dimensions that the other generals don't have. Isn't that enough reason to include him
Don't get me wrong, Joker is a fine villain. However, the rest of the show is goddamn unambitious. Somebody like him doesn't fit the show as it was, and if the show is comparable to Looney Tunes (your own description, not mine), then he does not belong there. If Smile Precure should be judged as a light-hearted show that deemphasizes story as you insist (and not like other Precure seasons), then the villains should be scaled down to get the tone and flow of the story more consistent.
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Old 2013-02-15, 10:21   Link #834
4Tran
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Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
In my opinion though. Repeating the decor collecting gave a "recycling of idea" feeling to the anime. Scriptwriters could have thought of another quest for the precure to do on the second half of the series.
I'm still a bit amazed at how blatantly lazy the creators were at setting up the new quest of the week. I guess they figured that nobody really cared anyways.

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Don't get me wrong, Joker is a fine villain. However, the rest of the show is goddamn unambitious. Somebody like him doesn't fit the show as it was, and if the show is comparable to Looney Tunes (your own description, not mine), then he does not belong there.
Are you talking about the same Looney Tunes that had Adolf Hitler as a villain?

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If Smile Precure should be judged as a light-hearted show that deemphasizes story as you insist (and not like other Precure seasons), then the villains should be scaled down to get the tone and flow of the story more consistent.
Joker exists so that there can be a credible threat to the Precures. The regular generals are beaten day in and day out, so they don't work for that purpose. He doesn't detract from the tone of Smile, so where's the problem?
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Old 2013-02-15, 11:51   Link #835
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I'm still a bit amazed at how blatantly lazy the creators were at setting up the new quest of the week. I guess they figured that nobody really cared anyways.
And yet you claim that this show is good, even though you admit the writing was lazy?

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Are you talking about the same Looney Tunes that had Adolf Hitler as a villain?
Should I point out that it was made in a time of less political correctness, where demonizing the enemies of one's country was accepted, and having such assholes as him show up in comedies was fine?
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Joker exists so that there can be a credible threat to the Precures. The regular generals are beaten day in and day out, so they don't work for that purpose. He doesn't detract from the tone of Smile, so where's the problem?
He does detract from the tone of the show. Explain me this: If there needs to be a "credible threat," then why is the vast majority of the show utterly shallow and lighthearted? It's like throwing a murder plot into a standard slice of life show. The rest of the show does nothing to support a villain on the level of Joker. He isn't even present or mentioned in the majority of episodes, even after his introduction.
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Old 2013-02-15, 15:30   Link #836
4Tran
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And yet you claim that this show is good, even though you admit the writing was lazy?
Overall, the writing is good. But that doesn't mean that it's free from flaws, nor does it mean that I'm shy about pointing out the flaws I perceive. Writing like this exists to sell the toys, and it amuses me to the point where it doesn't bother me.

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Should I point out that it was made in a time of less political correctness, where demonizing the enemies of one's country was accepted, and having such assholes as him show up in comedies was fine?
What difference does that make? The point is that a work doesn't have to maintain exactly the same tone in every episode, so it's normal to have outliers from time to time. And that this is why we get the occasional work like "The Rabbit of Seville".

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He does detract from the tone of the show. Explain me this: If there needs to be a "credible threat," then why is the vast majority of the show utterly shallow and lighthearted? It's like throwing a murder plot into a standard slice of life show. The rest of the show does nothing to support a villain on the level of Joker. He isn't even present or mentioned in the majority of episodes, even after his introduction.
As above, tone isn't meant to be immutable, and it's healthy for a show to add some variety to its lineup.
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Old 2013-02-15, 15:48   Link #837
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The first half of 48 was unbearable. Not seeing a friend again, or everyone dies. And that's supposed to be a tough choice? I know this show is technically for little girls, but come ON!

And the reunion was BS. I would have accepted many unlikely things. There was a bit of power left in the jewel. The gates just needed to recharge a bit. Hey, you can't actually close the gate between the two worlds, cause they're intertwined. But "I wished on many stars and it worked." Is TOTAL deus ex machina.

And I'm kind of happy they ripped off HeartCatch's final "battle". At least they know that show was better. At least the giant Precure did more then give him a hug. Man, the REALLY tried to emulate the final Earth shattering battle from HeartCatch, didn't they?

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Old 2013-02-15, 23:23   Link #838
Hiroshi Amearai
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The end of smile is basicaly a rip off of New Stage. Everything is the same. Can't transform, Can only transform one last time, has to say goodbye to the fairy forever, meet the fairy again for whatever reason...
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Old 2013-02-16, 22:09   Link #839
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The end of smile is basicaly a rip off of New Stage. Everything is the same. Can't transform, Can only transform one last time, has to say goodbye to the fairy forever, meet the fairy again for whatever reason...
Actually, it's a repeat of Precure All-Stars DX3. But I definitely agree.

And they couldn't fool us on that, that's for certain. I honestly wanted some kind of "celebration" from the main Smile Precure stars -- both main and Cure forms.

Suite Precure's ending layout was much better than this.
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Old 2013-02-16, 23:20   Link #840
Sol Falling
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Suite Precure's ending was such a mess of cliches I don't even remember what happened, really. It was burnout from Suite's terrible ending that 'cause me to put off watching Smile's finale episodes for 5 weeks. Smile's actual ending might have been bland and unoriginal (what is it with Precure bosses always claiming to be "embodiments" of abstract concepts? It's one thing to be a representative of something like despair or hatred, or else to be powered by darkness, but to say that one's defeat represents the defeat of all hatred/despair/whatever that exists/ever existed in the universe is just nonsensical.), but at least 47 gave us some freakin' gorgeous fighting animation with the Precure in their Princess forms.

HeartCatch's ending is the only ending I can say was good on a symbolic/conceptual level. The drama with Yuri's father leading up to it made that finale singularly defining. Dune also never wasted a whole bunch of time monologuing about pointless shit like why he could "never" be beaten. The only reason Smile beats out Heartcatch for me is because the regular episodes were more consistently entertaining, and the characters I liked (Erika in Heartcatch's case, versus Reika and Yayoi in Smile) didn't end up getting pushed completely into the background by the arrival of new Precure.
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Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 30/5 :: Locodol 30/5 :: Yama no Susume 60/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game

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