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Old 2013-02-09, 10:53   Link #41
Nightbat®
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
So I am not sure if you actually want the franchise to survive or not.
Rethink what you're saying
Do we want the music of Mozart to survive, or the recordcompanies making remixes of his works?

You want TB to survive or the business behind it?

A franchise is nothing more than the name slapped on things you can make money off

TB isn't a busines, it's a TV-show from the 60's
The puppet show is still remembered (aka: survived) while most have forgotten the Live-action movie already
All you need to do to make something survive is remind people that it exists from time to time

"Elvis is still alive!"
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Old 2013-02-09, 11:06   Link #42
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbat® View Post
Rethink what you're saying
Do we want the music of Mozart to survive, or the recordcompanies making remixes of his works?

You want TB to survive or the business behind it?

A franchise is nothing more than the name slapped on things you can make money off

TB isn't a busines, it's a TV-show from the 60's
The puppet show is still remembered (aka: survived) while most have forgotten the Live-action movie already
All you need to do to make something survive is remind people that it exists from time to time

"Elvis is still alive!"
The movie is forgotten not because it was a movie, but because it was bad. Are you telling me if it was made EXACTLY the same, but use puppets, that it would be liked?

But no matter, I see where you stand. You don't want the next generation to have Thunderbirds because it is too precious. You are scared of it being "ruined" so you rather than no one in the next generation gets the chance. I am not saying I don't understand, but I do still say that "puppets" is not what made Thunderbirds good.
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Old 2013-02-09, 20:01   Link #43
Nightbat®
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The movie is forgotten not because it was a movie, but because it was bad. Are you telling me if it was made EXACTLY the same, but use puppets, that it would be liked?

But no matter, I see where you stand. You don't want the next generation to have Thunderbirds because it is too precious. You are scared of it being "ruined" so you rather than no one in the next generation gets the chance. I am not saying I don't understand, but I do still say that "puppets" is not what made Thunderbirds good.
You're making it look like I never want the original show to be seen again
No I'm against bastardizing a show into something for which it was not known for
You OTOH want 'Die Zauberflöte" dubstep remixes and kid yourself in claiming it's still 100% Mozart

Tell me, if it wasn't the 'supermarionation' making TB iconic, what then?
Please inform me what oscarwinning qualities made TB so memorable


I'm willing to bet if there was a 2004 Marionette movie, it surely would have been more appreciated than the liveaction movie
If the time for puppet shows has ended, then end it and for godsake make something NEW instead of leaching off a memory
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Old 2013-02-10, 05:26   Link #44
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbat® View Post
Tell me, if it wasn't the 'supermarionation' making TB iconic, what then?
Please inform me what oscarwinning qualities made TB so memorable
It's science fiction about a group of heroes using advanced technology and amazing vehicles to save people in need across the world. More importantly, it was executed well. It's not the plot, it's the execution.

It was NOT good just because it had puppets.

And as explained earlier, the likes of UFO made by Anderson are well received. And made an impact all the way reaching Japan and influenced Evangelion.

I simply refuse to accept that Thunderbirds was good because it had puppets, the same way I refuse to believe Wizard of Oz was a good film only because it was in full colour.
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Old 2013-02-10, 07:14   Link #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
It's science fiction about a group of heroes using advanced technology and amazing vehicles to save people in need across the world. More importantly, it was executed well. It's not the plot, it's the execution.

It was NOT good just because it had puppets.

And as explained earlier, the likes of UFO made by Anderson are well received. And made an impact all the way reaching Japan and influenced Evangelion.

I simply refuse to accept that Thunderbirds was good because it had puppets, the same way I refuse to believe Wizard of Oz was a good film only because it was in full colour.
It was the whole 'puppet' thing that made it stand out of the crowd
All those points you mention were used before, during and after TB by others
How many cartoons and live action sci-fi shows have been forgotten that may have been better?

Talking about 'The wizard of Oz':
How would that work as a franchise? I'm sure you don't want it to be forgotten?
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Old 2013-02-10, 14:04   Link #46
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Considering they have made about a half dozen sequels or variants of the Wizard of Oz since the original came out, and the original has still not lost its flavor (while most of the others have vanished completely), such things happen.

Not sure about the new Oz film yet.
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Old 2013-02-10, 15:53   Link #47
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The Oz series of books ran for many titles, mostly because L. Frank Baum's other works didn't sell well, & there was still demand for Oz related titles.
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Old 2013-02-11, 14:27   Link #48
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbat® View Post
Talking about 'The wizard of Oz':
How would that work as a franchise? I'm sure you don't want it to be forgotten?
There is a film about Oz. And there was a life action play on the Witch.

But by your standards you would consider them sacrilege too.

My point stands. You insist that Thunderbirds cannot exist without the puppets. The assumption is that without the puppets Thunderbirds had nothing else going for it.

I find that bizarre. There are plenty of things to worry about. The new TV series might have a bad script, bad setting, excessive changes, etc. All these things that are more important to the quality of the show. And yet here you only care about a lack of puppets.
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Old 2013-02-11, 16:33   Link #49
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As someone whose first exposure to Thunderbirds was through the comic books (which I've since lost T_T ), I certainly don't know why you need puppets for the setting to work. The puppets are not a defining feature of the franchise, even though it's the best known medium of representation. The puppets are just that: a medium. Is it sacrilege that all the theater plays in history have been adapted to film or animated media? It's not like puppeteering was something that Thunderbirds pioneered or something.

Thunderbirds is about the story of International Rescue and their iconic machines in zeerust style, it's never been about puppets.
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Old 2013-02-11, 17:21   Link #50
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Actually, being unwilling to create another TB with marionettes shows a clear sign of 'not giving a damn about the original franchise'

and indeed, you don't need puppets to make TB work

Just as you don't need the muppets to make the muppetshow work, since it was much more than 'just' handpuppets

I'll ask you again: Do you think the muppets should be thown in a landfill and replaced by CGI?


Using puppets was integral to the original TB which everyone apparently thinks is worth to keep alive

It never was just the story, dialog or or the 'characters' It was a package deal peeps
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Old 2013-02-11, 18:13   Link #51
Ithekro
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The muppets have worked as cartoons and some have been CGI for difficult scenes. Though having them be more lifelike animals makes it more difficult for reasons of scale more than anything else.

The question for Thunderbirds would be, what attracted people to it? That is was puppets, or was it the story and equipment they used.

I did watch some Thunderbirds when I was little, but honestly don't remember all that much about it aside that is was done with puppets.
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Old 2013-02-15, 12:54   Link #52
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20082842
Saw this today, and I thought of this thread. It's Mikus re-enacting Thunderbird scenes in the playground via MMD.
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