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Old 2013-02-16, 19:46   Link #2661
Gene098
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Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
After volume seven.
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Old 2013-02-16, 21:58   Link #2662
EnigmaticAxiom
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... I think most of this argument is simply fueled by the fact that they're looking for a way around the fact that Miyuki and Tatsuya are blood siblings, in order to ship them together without it being incest
Yes. So very very yes. I agree with you. Absolutely. People should stop coming up with random shit because it starts long and annoying conversations which only serve to annoy me (because I'm so all important that everyone should worry about what does and does not annoy me :P).

I'll say I find it odd that they have "proof" that they're blood relations (I believe it was mentioned in the beach story, but I'd have to check that again), but I'm not going to try and think of a workaround. Like Malason said, it's a century in the future, so I suppose you can't throw out some weird ass possibility, but it's a fucking cop out to just use the "technology has advanced" without things specifically being stated. If he used that poor excuse, I'd have to rethink my opinion of him as a writer.

Not to mention he is quite specific on his science. He's not going to just go with some cover-all like that; he'll give an explanation when he can give one or he'll state it explicitely.
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Old 2013-02-16, 23:20   Link #2663
belatkuro
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Originally Posted by EnigmaticAxiom View Post
Yes. So very very yes. I agree with you. Absolutely. People should stop coming up with random shit because it starts long and annoying conversations which only serve to annoy me (because I'm so all important that everyone should worry about what does and does not annoy me :P).

I'll say I find it odd that they have "proof" that they're blood relations (I believe it was mentioned in the beach story, but I'd have to check that again), but I'm not going to try and think of a workaround. Like Malason said, it's a century in the future, so I suppose you can't throw out some weird ass possibility, but it's a fucking cop out to just use the "technology has advanced" without things specifically being stated. If he used that poor excuse, I'd have to rethink my opinion of him as a writer.

Not to mention he is quite specific on his science. He's not going to just go with some cover-all like that; he'll give an explanation when he can give one or he'll state it explicitely.
The one in the beach story was Shizuku asking Miyuki if they really were blood related and Miyuki replied that it's a question that's been asked a lot of times. She then replies that they really are blood related, or at least that was what is written in the records and DNA tests.

This is probably some hint but I really don't think the author would make them not related at this point in the story. And certainly not because of some sort of technological advancement that overcome pregnancy issues.
Not that I'm dissing the people shipping the siblings but using that excuse is simply not in line with the consistency of the author's storytelling.
I still have a card to play regarding this issue but I'll hold back for now.
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Old 2013-02-17, 00:06   Link #2664
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Well to be fair the Yotsuba has managed to dupe the other 10 master clans and many government agencies into thinking Tatsuya has nothing to do with them. They also made sure that he couldn't be associated to Taurus as well. Changing the results of a DNA test or some records would seem easy in comparison.

btw I'm a MayumixTatsuya fan but I do happen to like Miyuki a lot.
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Old 2013-02-17, 02:23   Link #2665
Zilch100
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My sense is that they are siblings. There's no reason for the Yotsuba to lie within their clan about their familial standing. Tats is reviled by most of the clan, it would make more sense for the clan's "reputation" if he wasn't labeled as Mayo's son (Miyuki's mom - I get confused between the sister's names).And why hide it if he's really the current head's son (though he isn't since she can't have children)? There's no advantage since they treat him like experimental material anyway.

Which makes me wonder... When can it be determined that a child is a magician? If it's in infancy, then it makes sense that Mayo would have another child right away since Tatsuya would have been declared a failure soon after birth. I remember reading somewhere that Mayo's marriage was made because of a perceived genetic advantage, regardless of the fact that the father was in a relationship with another woman. (And perhaps why she was tolerated as his mistress.) So Mayo's marriage, and thus children, was solely for producing a magician heir (because the current head couldn't have kids). Since Tatsuya was a failure, Miyuki was conceived and born right afterwards and since she was a success, no more kids were needed??? Sound like something the Yotsuba would do.

Plus, the world they inhabit isn't so "perfect" that Miyuki will get everything she wants. She's achingly beautiful, extremely talented, has power and influence as a Yatsubo head candidate... As a reader, it'd break my "suspension of disbelief" if she got her forbidden love too. A tad over the top and melodramatic in my opinion. I think it'd ruin the structure of the story. It seems to me like the author is setting Miyuki up to be a tragic heroine. And wouldn't that thrill the reqdership more? we love a tragic hero/heroine. And the perfect "riding into the sunset" moment would be that somehow, she's the one that gives Tats his freedom and a respected place in their world, though it may not be what he wants. And his take on her heroic sacrifice would be interesting. That plot point, to me, is what the story is ultimately moving toward.

Finally, Tatsuya doesn't have a drop of romantic interest in Miyuki. She's his little sister who he pampers and who is very important to him. It seems like he thinks she makes him human due to the singular, sibling love he has for her. Romantic love is completely out of Tatsuya's understanding. There's numerous examples of this.

Miyuki will have an arranged marriage with Masaki precisely because it's a good genetic match for powerful children for the Yotsuba and because Masaki would want it.
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Old 2013-02-17, 02:45   Link #2666
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...... /snap

Excuse me?
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Old 2013-02-17, 02:54   Link #2667
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Originally Posted by Zilch100 View Post
My sense is that they are siblings. There's no reason for the Yotsuba to lie within their clan about their familial standing. Tats is reviled by most of the clan, it would make more sense for the clan's "reputation" if he wasn't labeled as Mayo's son (Miyuki's mom - I get confused between the sister's names).And why hide it if he's really the current head's son (though he isn't since she can't have children)? There's no advantage since they treat him like experimental material anyway.

Which makes me wonder... When can it be determined that a child is a magician? If it's in infancy, then it makes sense that Mayo would have another child right away since Tatsuya would have been declared a failure soon after birth. I remember reading somewhere that Mayo's marriage was made because of a perceived genetic advantage, regardless of the fact that the father was in a relationship with another woman. (And perhaps why she was tolerated as his mistress.) So Mayo's marriage, and thus children, was solely for producing a magician heir (because the current head couldn't have kids). Since Tatsuya was a failure, Miyuki was conceived and born right afterwards and since she was a success, no more kids were needed??? Sound like something the Yotsuba would do.

Plus, the world they inhabit isn't so "perfect" that Miyuki will get everything she wants. She's achingly beautiful, extremely talented, has power and influence as a Yatsubo head candidate... As a reader, it'd break my "suspension of disbelief" if she got her forbidden love too. A tad over the top and melodramatic in my opinion. I think it'd ruin the structure of the story. It seems to me like the author is setting Miyuki up to be a tragic heroine. And wouldn't that thrill the reqdership more? we love a tragic hero/heroine. And the perfect "riding into the sunset" moment would be that somehow, she's the one that gives Tats his freedom and a respected place in their world, though it may not be what he wants. And his take on her heroic sacrifice would be interesting. That plot point, to me, is what the story is ultimately moving toward.

Finally, Tatsuya doesn't have a drop of romantic interest in Miyuki. She's his little sister who he pampers and who is very important to him. It seems like he thinks she makes him human due to the singular, sibling love he has for her. Romantic love is completely out of Tatsuya's understanding. There's numerous examples of this.

Miyuki will have an arranged marriage with Masaki precisely because it's a good genetic match for powerful children for the Yotsuba and because Masaki would want it.
No, they are both going to be of the heads of their family (expected) and the head of a family cannot marry the other head.
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Old 2013-02-17, 02:58   Link #2668
Zilch100
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Sorry to all you Miyuki fans...

I think she'll have what she really wants in the end... She'll be the one to give Tats his "freedom" and that is what she craves. She'll set him up in a high-handed, glorious way. And she'll be the Yotsuba head. And she'll be so beautiful, powerful, and "ice-queen"-like that she'll be a mountain-mover in the magical world.

Is that better?
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Old 2013-02-17, 03:03   Link #2669
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... Now that just makes Miyuki Mary Sue level. [/shortpost]
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Old 2013-02-17, 03:04   Link #2670
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Why can't the heads marry each other? Is this concept canon?
Which clans that are in the ten clans fluxes and there's got to be intermarriage at some level or you get interbreeding problems.

Plus, the Yotsuba head's children don't necessarily become the next head. There are candidates and the current head chooses his/her successor.
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Old 2013-02-17, 03:47   Link #2671
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Originally Posted by Zilch100 View Post
My sense is that they are siblings. There's no reason for the Yotsuba to lie within their clan about their familial standing. Tats is reviled by most of the clan, it would make more sense for the clan's "reputation" if he wasn't labeled as Mayo's son (Miyuki's mom - I get confused between the sister's names).And why hide it if he's really the current head's son (though he isn't since she can't have children)? There's no advantage since they treat him like experimental material anyway.

Which makes me wonder... When can it be determined that a child is a magician? If it's in infancy, then it makes sense that Mayo would have another child right away since Tatsuya would have been declared a failure soon after birth. I remember reading somewhere that Mayo's marriage was made because of a perceived genetic advantage, regardless of the fact that the father was in a relationship with another woman. (And perhaps why she was tolerated as his mistress.) So Mayo's marriage, and thus children, was solely for producing a magician heir (because the current head couldn't have kids). Since Tatsuya was a failure, Miyuki was conceived and born right afterwards and since she was a success, no more kids were needed??? Sound like something the Yotsuba would do.

Plus, the world they inhabit isn't so "perfect" that Miyuki will get everything she wants. She's achingly beautiful, extremely talented, has power and influence as a Yatsubo head candidate... As a reader, it'd break my "suspension of disbelief" if she got her forbidden love too. A tad over the top and melodramatic in my opinion. I think it'd ruin the structure of the story. It seems to me like the author is setting Miyuki up to be a tragic heroine. And wouldn't that thrill the reqdership more? we love a tragic hero/heroine. And the perfect "riding into the sunset" moment would be that somehow, she's the one that gives Tats his freedom and a respected place in their world, though it may not be what he wants. And his take on her heroic sacrifice would be interesting. That plot point, to me, is what the story is ultimately moving toward.

Finally, Tatsuya doesn't have a drop of romantic interest in Miyuki. She's his little sister who he pampers and who is very important to him. It seems like he thinks she makes him human due to the singular, sibling love he has for her. Romantic love is completely out of Tatsuya's understanding. There's numerous examples of this.

Miyuki will have an arranged marriage with Masaki precisely because it's a good genetic match for powerful children for the Yotsuba and because Masaki would want it.
THIS IS HERESY!!!
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FOR THE EMPEROR!!!!
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Old 2013-02-17, 03:55   Link #2672
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Originally Posted by Zilch100 View Post
Why can't the heads marry each other? Is this concept canon?
Which clans that are in the ten clans fluxes and there's got to be intermarriage at some level or you get interbreeding problems.

Plus, the Yotsuba head's children don't necessarily become the next head. There are candidates and the current head chooses his/her successor.
Because there's no way in hell the other Ten Families are going to let two heads consolidate power into one family, especially if one of them is Yotsuba. Just read Kudou's visit to Kazama in Volume 4, Chapter 12.

We already "know" (i.e. you're going to have to sift through hundreds of pages of spoilers yourself) that Miyuki is going to be a head. So a Masaki/Miyuki pairing is dead on arrival.
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Old 2013-02-17, 04:01   Link #2673
Anthony.N
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Originally Posted by Zilch100 View Post
Why can't the heads marry each other? Is this concept canon?
Which clans that are in the ten clans fluxes and there's got to be intermarriage at some level or you get interbreeding problems.

Plus, the Yotsuba head's children don't necessarily become the next head. There are candidates and the current head chooses his/her successor.
You dont understand Asian family/clan concept, do you?

-If 2 heads marry each other, they both have to share their power and finance with each other. This is a no-no to any strong families because they have their own "pride" even though they could gain great boost from this.

- The marriage between 2 heads only happended when 2 familes gonna to be merged or between one big and one small family.

Maya has great interest in Mayuki, and expects her to be the head (no1 candidate), therefore no other candidate has been showed. And you think Mayuki gonna like/love Masaki? lol
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Old 2013-02-17, 04:20   Link #2674
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say...
is womb transplant possible to do..?
if so, then shouldn't at the novel's ages they could practice that on Maya's,
or why at her dying miya didn't make a will for donate her womb to her sister so she could give a birth..
well as along she's above 40YO yet, then the ovarioum shouldn't decrease its quality for reproduction yet...

so what dya think..??
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Old 2013-02-17, 07:37   Link #2675
EnigmaticAxiom
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say...
is womb transplant possible to do..?
if so, then shouldn't at the novel's ages they could practice that on Maya's,
or why at her dying miya didn't make a will for donate her womb to her sister so she could give a birth..
well as along she's above 40YO yet, then the ovarioum shouldn't decrease its quality for reproduction yet...

so what dya think..??
No. Just no. I doubt there's anything in the literature rejecting what you said, but no. Regardless, I'm not sure Miya would donate her womb to Maya, since there's some kind of cold war going on between the two, and the ova decrease in quality quite a bit earlier than when you're 40. Probably around 30 or so, it's just less likely to cause problems than when the person is older.

Also, was the womb the problem? Couldn't it be the ovaries or the eggs? Or perhaps she's secretly a man without people knowing it? If you're going to speculate, use that one. She's androgen insensitive. That would make for a much better excuse.

Right, from now on, I'm going with Maya is androgen insensitive. Maybe if enough people will buy it, we'll stop getting these random questions and posts about ways Tatsuya is not a first degree relative of Miyuki.
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Old 2013-02-17, 07:45   Link #2676
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they both do have the same father because it says he also a a high psion count so they propbly have the same mother as well
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Old 2013-02-17, 07:46   Link #2677
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sorry probably
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Old 2013-02-17, 08:20   Link #2678
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they both do have the same father because it says he also a a high psion count so they propbly have the same mother as well
yeah then we need to stop this discussion.

They're Siblings by blood
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Old 2013-02-17, 09:09   Link #2679
HasNoLove
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oh well, I just asking a question regarding why Maya didn't cure her inabillity for giving a birth...
or maybe the author did it cuz he want it just like that or so...

well, better continue reading this awesome novel for goods...
and sorry if my question offensive y'all... m(_ _)m
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Old 2013-02-17, 10:25   Link #2680
yuzen003
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The incest angle has been part of the story since the first book and that actually caters to the Japanese audience. Look at OniiAi or OreImo, the genre sells over there and their pairing has been part of how the series is marketed (seriously the illustrations on the drama dvd are all about Tatsuya and Miyuki).

The author knows who the most popular girl to his core fans is and he would have to hate money to have Miyuki end up with anyone other then Tatsuya or Tatsuya end up with anyone other then Miyuki.
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