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View Poll Results: Psycho-Pass - Episode 17 Rating
Perfect 10 44 51.16%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 22 25.58%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 12.79%
7 out of 10 : Good 6 6.98%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.16%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.16%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 1.16%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-02-17, 05:20   Link #141
Qilin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
Kozaburo Touma is a murderer, who killed presumably for enjoyment, as is Makishima.
Right. Could you explain?

They're both murderers, but I've seen little evidence that they do so for its own sake.
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Old 2013-02-17, 05:28   Link #142
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Right. Could you explain?

They're both murderers, but I've seen little evidence that they do so for its own sake.
And so what if they had "reasons" kill?

They are just as likely to have "reasons" to kill when being a brain in a box. It is no different from a criminal in a prison cell who runs a cartel via a mobile phone. Just because they aren't going anywhere, as long as they still are free to 1. Think for themselves and 2. Make major decisions that affect the outside world as they saw fit, they are free to make a mess of things.

You STILL haven't explained why you think being a brain in a box magically makes a criminal no longer able to harm people for their own reasons.
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Old 2013-02-17, 05:41   Link #143
Qilin
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
And so what if they had "reasons" kill?

They are just as likely to have "reasons" to kill when being a brain in a box. It is no different from a criminal in a prison cell who runs a cartel via a mobile phone. Just because they aren't going anywhere, as long as they still are free to 1. Think for themselves and 2. Make major decisions that affect the outside world as they saw fit. they are free to make a mess of things.
You seem to have the assumption that it is within such humans' nature to kill as an immutable facet within the brain. While I'm sure it's quite romantic to imagine that there are indeed people who "get off" to killing for its own sake, such individuals are few and far in-between, if they happen to exist at all. Not to mention, any such individuals wouldn't be selected to join the collective in the first place. The fact of the matter is that most people kill or commit crimes for reasons relating to fulfilling physical or social needs, which becomes moot once their brain is integrated into the system. They no longer have any interests to maintain with regards to the world below them. Any other needs left to be fulfilled would likely be more related to the ego or intellectual attainment than anything else.

But once again, such are the flaws of an aristocratic government system, which is why much care is placed with regards to selecting suitable individuals. You can argue against a dictatorship, but it does have practical applications. As such, I wouldn't call this monstrous, but it is oppressive, as is any system where societal order takes precedence to human freedom.

Quote:
You STILL haven't explained why you think being a brain in a box magically makes a criminal no longer able to harm people for their own reasons.
It doesn't. But then, these "own reasons" would pretty much be limited to sustaining the hold of Sybil over the general populace or else achieving total omniscience.
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Last edited by Qilin; 2013-02-17 at 05:51.
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Old 2013-02-17, 06:49   Link #144
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P-P's world can't get any more worse, can't it? A society ruled by brains of the criminally asymptomatic - well, I had expected that, but the part about the Chief being linked to all 247 brains, including Kouzaburou Touma - I did not see that coming. The fact that the brains of criminally asymptomatic people, which include those of criminals such as Touma, can run a country comes off as slightly mind-boggling to me. How does Sibyl actually judge people? Assuming that the brains represent the people themselves (Touma still possesses his sense of self, as it seems), doesn't it mean that Sibyl is, to some extent, capable of emotion and not a mere computerized system? How can the brains cooperate in their judgement? I guess the advanced technology in P-P's world can answer to that, and it's still regulated by human authority, anyway...

Despite some holes lying around, P-P continues to be entertaining as a whole. Makishima really stood out this episode, and I'd probably be cheering him on more enthusiastically if it wasn't for his crimes and his twisted personality...

Other little things:
- I thought Kougami's hallucination at the end was well-done, especially when Makishima's 'chilling' call followed after.
- Kagari's currently labeled as 'missing,' so possibly, he could still be alive? I won't get my hopes up too high though...
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Old 2013-02-17, 07:33   Link #145
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
What about a version of the system that's completely impartial? Perhaps even actually run by several supercomputers working in tandem? One that focused more on mental healthcare rather than getting dissenters out of the way?
As Seung said some episodes back, it is technically impossible in terms of computing power with their current technological level. So i guess using supercomputers of the purely electrical/mechanical kind is impossible as an emulator of Sibyl's current function. And as long as there is a "human component" it's a hard sell in terms of being completely impartial.
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Pretty much. Mind, the reason they don't want Makishima killed, is because guys like Makishima are the kind of people qualified to join the brain network.
I on the other hand take this as : Some parts of Sibyl system seems purely electronic/machine like the Hue Reading. But those 250 brains do the final judgement and prduces the PP. can't quite remember exactly if they can do scans without connection to Sibyl Main ( the factory arc implies they do). Probably some correlations & personal histories, done really quick due to their PDP(Parallel Data Processing)

It's not that the Dominator (as held by Akane) didn't want Makishima killed (same as with Toma) because he's a new recruit, in fact they could have just used paralyze mode. but because it can't read him. Which is why they wanted to recruit him after so that the Sibyl Main will have a better understanding of his kind of "uniqueness." So it's not "being a recruit" the reason they don't/can't shoot him.
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Originally Posted by RollingPenguin View Post
Judgement of ones psycho pass has been shown to be entirely objective,because that chief changed the dominators state....
I don't really see this , in fact there has been a lot of posts and comments in this forum regarding PP readings, as to why one is this high while one is not, etc.
the director only changed the Dominator state against Kagami (even though his PP is high enough) is because he is registered as an ENFORCER connected with the MWPSB in the computer, and because she wants the ultimate decomposer mode to remove all traces. She would have needed to change it too against Makishima because, Makishima can't be read normally, he is an anomaly.

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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Yes, but what avenues are left for them to satisfy those desires without their physical bodies?
I think the very presence of the old style Hunter invalidates this point, remember he is very much just a brain on a robotic body at that point when he was doing all those crimes. They made a stern point of this during his arc , maybe as a foreshadowing of Sibyl. The director itself is another.
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Old 2013-02-17, 07:39   Link #146
jwai
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Originally Posted by Allium View Post
- Kagari's currently labeled as 'missing,' so possibly, he could still be alive? I won't get my hopes up too high though...
My wild speculation is that Kagari isn't dead yet, but won't be what he used to be.

His remains weren't seen in the phone video, and if he was plain dead, why would the Chief then put Division 1 on a wild goose chase on the pretence that he's escaped?

If they are already putting brains in boxes, other sorts of experiments on somebody else who's been made to disappear would not be out of the question. Potentially drag out what's left of Kagari as a means of undermining the protagonists once they start digging further into the system?

As an aside, the symbolism of having 247 brains in the network seems a bit obvious. 24/7 much?
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Old 2013-02-17, 07:50   Link #147
Qilin
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Originally Posted by garbage View Post
I think the very presence of the old style Hunter invalidates this point, remember he is very much just a brain on a robotic body at that point when he was doing all those crimes. They made a stern point of this during his arc , maybe as a foreshadowing of Sibyl. The director itself is another.
The difference is that he had a nice convenient robotic body to move around in. That, and he wasn't subject to the decisions of a collective body. It was as much a physical body as any old flesh-made one, practically speaking. The "director" pretty much served as a representative for the will of the collective.
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Old 2013-02-17, 08:23   Link #148
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^
That's why I added the director there, unplugged, whoever is currently using the body is very much the same as that hunter.Time sharing would be a CON yet the vast powers afforded by memebership in the elite Sibyl team would definitely be a big PRO, and who's to say there is only one director body? Touma's way of speaking and even expression very much shows they retain their individuality therefore likes, dislikes, wants & ego too, he even said so himself. Sibyl is not one collective mind they don't make a homogenous mass they don't have a single will it seems, it's more like a collection of individuals, like your regular parliament & congress and WE KNOW how much being "subject" to the whole means to individual congressmen

much worse this is a CONGRESS made of SOCIOPATHS!!!.....

oh wait....
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Old 2013-02-17, 09:11   Link #149
Qilin
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Originally Posted by garbage View Post
^
That's why I added the director there, unplugged, whoever is currently using the body is very much the same as that hunter.Time sharing would be a CON yet the vast powers afforded by memebership in the elite Sibyl team would definitely be a big PRO, and who's to say there is only one director body? Touma's way of speaking and even expression very much shows they retain their individuality therefore likes, dislikes, wants & ego too, he even said so himself. Sibyl is not one collective mind they don't make a homogenous mass they don't have a single will it seems, it's more like a collection of individuals, like your regular parliament & congress and WE KNOW how much being "subject" to the whole means to individual congressmen

much worse this is a CONGRESS made of SOCIOPATHS!!!.....

oh wait....
Fair, but take note that the "director" is only a representative of the collective. "She" exists only to convey the will of the collective rather than having any true decision making power, entirely different from Senguji. While individual brains do retain autonomy to an extent, they are simply limited to acting as themselves. A congress is a good analogy in that respect. That's why I brought up the notion of aristocracy.

Well, the difference here is that these individual minds are no longer bound by physical desires or social pressures that direct much of human behavior, which is a great help. Rather, it's more like only the internal motivators of behavior are allowed to remain. Individuality is maintained of course, but group consensus regulates any decision-making involved. You say the word "sociopath" as if it was a scary word to run away from, but in the end, governance truly involves existing above and beyond the system to begin with.
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Old 2013-02-17, 09:13   Link #150
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
The difference is that he had a nice convenient robotic body to move around in. That, and he wasn't subject to the decisions of a collective body. It was as much a physical body as any old flesh-made one, practically speaking. The "director" pretty much served as a representative for the will of the collective.
Except all the Sybil brains get to take turns living in a body that's even MORE life like than what the hunter guy got. Touma was very clear in emphasizing that he still continued to exist as an individual. Considering how many Sybil brains are off duty at any one time (I think it's a few dozen), they all can't be residing in the Director body. They have to have multiple forms. The fact they kinda have to play a predetermined role when they go out in the world is nothing. High level sociopaths have to put up a fake face anyway when they're out among the populace.

And frankly Qilin, the fact that a collective body is modulating behavior isn't that encouraging when the collective body happens to all be serial killers to.
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I'm the one going off the facts, you're just being presumptuous. That's not even stated in the episode.
If you're not going to bother watching the episode carefully, don't bother arguing with people about it.

Quote:
Starting 14 minutes, 21 seconds into episode 17.

The first qualification to be a constituent member of the Sibyl System is to have an irregular personality that doesn't fit in with mankind's conventional standards. Without aimlessly empathizing with others, without being lost to emotion, you should be able to oversee human actions from an outsider's viewpoint. Such talent is desired.

For example, like the way you and I are.

I'm a unique person to, whose Crime Coefficient can't be determined from his Psycho-Pass. Because of that, I've experienced a great deal of loneliness. A personality that cannot be measured even by Sibyl's collective intellect is called criminally asymptomatic. Those with this personality are distinguihsed from all citizens and have a new ideology and sense of values. By finding such valuable people and taking them in, the system has continued to expand its range of thinking and gained new possibilities as an intellectual form.
Touma is pretty explicitly saying that Sybil system constituent members are asymptomatic latent criminals like himself and Makishima. Frankly speaking, YOU'RE the one inferring that they use people other than criminally asymptomatic individuals as part of the system. And until you provide some kind of citation to back up your inference, I'm going to completely disregard it.


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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Fair, but take note that the "director" is only a representative of the collective. "She" exists only to convey the will of the collective rather than having any true decision making power, entirely different from Senguji. While individual brains do retain autonomy to an extent, they are simply limited to acting as themselves. A congress is a good analogy in that respect. That's why I brought up the notion of aristocracy.

Well, the difference here is that these individual minds are no longer bound by physical desires or social pressures, which is a great help. Individuality is maintained of course, but group consensus regulates any decision-making involved. You say the word "sociopath" as if it was a scary word to run away from, but in the end, governance truly involves existing above and beyond the system to begin with.
Qilin....just stop it. Every time you say something it makes my head hurt.

If the brains have individuality, but the collective has a will, then it automatically has social pressure. It's an assembly of 247 individuals. Of COURSE it has social pressure unique to it. What makes this existentially terrifying, is that this social pressure is coming from latent sociopathic murderers.
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Old 2013-02-17, 09:36   Link #151
cyth
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Personally, I think that these human-turned-brains aren't even human anymore. Let's forget that these people are former psychopaths for a second. If their brains don't have a body anymore and have a longer time span than most people, then by joining the Sybil collective, they severely damaged the relationship they've had as humans with bodies of flesh. Not only do they get to live longer, they have no more sense of danger, probably even less than the general population. What Touma Kouzaburou felt was indeed fear of having his existence taken away from him. If you're sealed up somewhere tight, in a nice warm box without having the need to inhibit a body, whose wellbeing is of utmost importance to your survival, then how exactly will you feel any responsibility to yourself, or to others for that matter? Giving a life or death judgment over another human being is at that point just a matter of disposing the body. How exactly would any human in that bodiless position be even able to empathize what a loss of body means to someone who's permanently stuck to it? Severing that connection with death is what made these psychopaths completely inhuman.

Other than that thought, I'm kind of disappointed of the fashion in which they made this revelation. I was hoping fantasy storytelling made some progress since having witnessed the horrors that is Fractale.
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Old 2013-02-17, 10:27   Link #152
Qilin
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Except all the Sybil brains get to take turns living in a body that's even MORE life like than what the hunter guy got. Touma was very clear in emphasizing that he still continued to exist as an individual. Considering how many Sybil brains are off duty at any one time (I think it's a few dozen), they all can't be residing in the Director body. They have to have multiple forms. The fact they kinda have to play a predetermined role when they go out in the world is nothing. High level sociopaths have to put up a fake face anyway when they're out among the populace.

And frankly Qilin, the fact that a collective body is modulating behavior isn't that encouraging when the collective body happens to all be serial killers to.
The body only exists to express the decision of the collective. It would be kinda laughable if you interpreted an individual's actions as equivalent to that of the collective. Touma's wishes are only his own, not that of the whole.

Well, if you're just going to assume that they're all "serial killers", I don't know why I bother. Still, killing innocent people in the name of societal order isn't exactly novel if we're looking at the history of governance.

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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Touma is pretty explicitly saying that Sybil system constituent members are asymptomatic latent criminals like himself and Makishima. Frankly speaking, YOU'RE the one inferring that they use people other than criminally asymptomatic individuals as part of the system. And until you provide some kind of citation to back up your inference, I'm going to completely disregard it.
"The first qualification to be a constituent member of the Sybil System is to have an irregular personality that doesn't fit in with mankind's conventional standards. Without aimlessly empathizing with others, without being lost to emotion, you should be able to oversee human actions from an outsider's viewpoint. Such talent is desired."

What you're doing is that you're equating criminally asymptotic individuals to serial killers when all it really refers to is a deviant mode of thinking, one that can look at the whole picture objectively without being subjected to the values that permeate the system.

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Qilin....just stop it. Every time you say something it makes my head hurt.
I could probably say the same, so I guess we're kinda even?

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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
What makes this existentially terrifying, is that this social pressure is coming from latent sociopathic murderers.
Yeah, no. This is my turn to raise my eyebrows. Like I've been saying, this is matter of context. Obviously, no individual would willingly subjugate themselves to such oppression, but sometimes such things are necessary for the survival of the society. Heck, you could label any harsh dictator with a utilitarian mindset as a "latent sociopathic murderer", but they're not always bad.

Well, from the looks of it, you guys seem to have a very kneejerk negative reaction to the term "sociopath" or "psychopath" for that matter, but whatever.

EDIT:

Another interesting thing to note is that these described "psychopaths" are essentially the closest human beings are to being objective thinkers. They're essentially free of human values and morals, and that allows them to see things as they truly are. Perhaps what people find so scary about such individuals is how "free" they are to do whatever they decide to do, unfettered by unnecessary empathy or guilt.
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Old 2013-02-17, 10:50   Link #153
cyth
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
Well, from the looks of it, you guys seem to have a very kneejerk negative reaction to the term "sociopath" or "psychopath" for that matter, but whatever.

EDIT:

Another interesting thing to note is that these described "psychopaths" are essentially the closest human beings are to being objective thinkers. They're essentially free of human values and morals, and that allows them to see things as they truly are. Perhaps what people find so scary about such individuals is how "free" they are to do whatever they decide to do, unfettered by unnecessary empathy or guilt.
Society doesn't jump when they hear descriptors like "sociopathic" because they're afraid of their supposed sense of freedom; society jumps because they do stupid, destructive shit. I would suggest you read up on sociopathy. Some of these people do not concern themselves with reality as they're happy to make a fake reality that suits them, which is essentially what the Sibyl collective is doing. I've had experiences with sociopaths, and let me tell you they would not care to grab a bucket if society burned in front of their eyes. They may have a certain perspective to life that enables them to make certain types of decisions without blinking an eye, but it's not like these qualities are exclusive to them. What do you say about Akane then? She is an asymptomatic person, yet she clearly has proper judgment skills and is able to empathize. You say you believe that the Sibyl collective is not full of psychopathic killers, yet at the same time laud them for their qualities, not even bothering to think normal people have what it takes to govern a human population.
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Old 2013-02-17, 11:09   Link #154
Qilin
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Society doesn't jump when they hear descriptors like "sociopathic" because they're afraid of their supposed sense of freedom; society jumps because they do stupid, destructive shit. I would suggest you read up on sociopathy. Some of these people do not concern themselves with reality as they're happy to make a fake reality that suits them, which is essentially what the Sibyl collective is doing. I've had experiences with sociopaths, and let me tell you they would not care to grab a bucket if society burned in front of their eyes. They may have a certain perspective to life that enables them to make certain types of decision without blinking an eye, but it's not like these qualities are exclusive to them.
Right. In other words, people are afraid of their freedom to act (or do destructive shit) without being bound by culturally-accepted values and the like. That is to say that society has little to no grip on their actions and decisions. It's a simple matter of interests, which is to give them a reason to care. I don't expect government leaders to be altruistic, so it's certainly a doable model with the right incentives. Sybil is a curious model that provides that very intrinsic motivation for them to function.

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What do you say about Akane then? She is an asymptomatic person, yet she clearly has proper judgment skills and is able to empathize.
If she truly is asymptomatic, then that proves my points even more. I'm not trying to equate psychopaths with being asymptotic. Also, empathy can be both a good thing or a bad thing depending on the situation.

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You say you believe that the Sibyl collective is not full of psychopathic killers, yet at the same time laud them for their qualities, not even bothering to think normal people have what it takes to govern a human population.
I'm simply against coloring this issue in black and white. All I'm saying is that certain kinds of minds can make connections that normal ones don't, connections that vary in importance according to context. I'm just against this distasteful notion of: psychopath = "boo! bad!".
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Old 2013-02-17, 11:18   Link #155
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Distasteful notion? LOL. Last I heard, psychopathy is a condition in which the subject DOES NOT GIVE A FUCK about anyone else other than himself. How you can imagine they are somehow capable of holding the best interest of other people in mind is beyond my comprehension.
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Old 2013-02-17, 11:26   Link #156
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Distasteful notion? LOL. Last I heard, psychopathy is a condition in which the subject DOES NOT GIVE A FUCK about anyone else other than himself. How you can imagine they are somehow capable of holding the best interest of other people in mind is beyond my comprehension.
I figured that psychopathy was the notion of being completely amoral, incapable of empathy, which tends to lead to "no giving a fuck about others" as you mentioned. You are right that such a mind cannot hold the people's best interests at heart. What it is capable of is looking at society and everything within it as an object, an elaborate machine. With that in mind, I can think of no better mind that can keep the machine running efficiently than one that does not see people as anything more than gears.

The whole society vs. individual thing is a long-running debate, and whether one is better than the other tends to boil down to personal preference.
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Old 2013-02-17, 11:55   Link #157
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
I figured that psychopathy was the notion of being completely amoral, incapable of empathy, which tends to lead to "no giving a fuck about others" as you mentioned. You are right that such a mind cannot hold the people's best interests at heart. What it is capable of is looking at society and everything within it as an object, an elaborate machine. With that in mind, I can think of no better mind that can keep the machine running efficiently than one that does not see people as anything more than gears.

The whole society vs. individual thing is a long-running debate, and whether one is better than the other tends to boil down to personal preference.
Ah, I see. You are in the "the population exists to serve the society" camp. You think it is a good idea to treat the population like they don't matter, like they can be killed on a whim, because "society" is more important than petty humans.

But what you are REALLY saying, is that 250 people or so are able to do whatever they want because they are gods. Because they are not accountable. Because they are obeyed.

What you are describing is a normal tyrannical country. There is nothing special about it; what you are describing is a system of government that had been around since the stone age. God-Kings have been everywhere in every continent. They also tend to stop existing after a while. Because there is a difference between God-Kings saying they are perfect, and God-Kings actually BEING perfect.

There is no proof that the Sibyl system actually make good decisions. We see plenty of flaws. More importantly there is no incentive for them to make good decisions because they don't CARE. I now see that we are on different planets entirely; your idea of paradise is a nightmare to me.
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Old 2013-02-17, 12:04   Link #158
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Well, from the looks of it, you guys seem to have a very kneejerk negative reaction to the term "sociopath" or "psychopath" for that matter, but whatever.

Another interesting thing to note is that these described "psychopaths" are essentially the closest human beings are to being objective thinkers. They're essentially free of human values and morals, and that allows them to see things as they truly are. Perhaps what people find so scary about such individuals is how "free" they are to do whatever they decide to do, unfettered by unnecessary empathy or guilt.
...I was about to quote a couple of things in your previous posts which seemed really odd in the way they glorified psychopaths, but here you've basically come out and said that you think psychopaths are superior to other people. They're not. The worst of them will go in for criminal activity, although many do not. (And sometimes you can often tell them by the way they do things to hurt people and never feel bad about it or accept any personal responsibility for it.) They are essentially free riders upon the rest of society; they're only out for themselves and don't care about anyone else. If most people were psychopaths, society couldn't function, and people (including psychopaths) would not be able to reap the benefits that society provides us. Morals and empathy for others are extremely useful.

Psychopaths are not objective. They are extremely self centered and biased! They're thinking "me! me! me!" all the time. They're arrogant. Thinking that people who lack empathy towards others magically become supremely logical and are thus the ideal thinkers and leaders for bringing the best society to others is absurd.

Heck, some of the main characteristics people have considered to be hallmarks of psychopathy include: not having a realistic view of themselves or their lives, difficulty in making realistic long term plans or learning from experience, feelings of grandiose self worth, and a failure to accept responsibility for their own actions. But now they are supposed to be the perfect objective thinkers? Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

Speaking specifically of Psycho-Pass here, look at the Sybil brains. They're not objective. They're drunk on power, and there's no doubt about it. They're going around thinking "Heeeheeee, I'm a god! I'm above you all, pulling all your strings and making all the decisions about what happens to you all! I'm special, and I'll recruit other people who are special like me." It may well turn out that the Sybil set up is one which is so seductive for them that they're willing to become the "law", at least to a limited extent, but it doesn't change them into being good people with good judgement.

As others have pointed out, Masaoka's crime co-efficient went up until he accepted the Sybil system. Yayoi's went up after she started listening to music that the Sybil system disapproved of. Kougami's started to go up after he became fixated on solving the murder of someone one of the Sybil brains had killed. It's hard to believe, after hearing Touma talk, that the Sybil brains are objective and acting in people's best interests rather than in the interests of preserving the system that gives the brains their "I'm a god!" kicks. Not least that psychopaths really don't give a damn about other people. Why should they be able to make better decisions than, say, Kougami or Tsunemori?
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Old 2013-02-17, 12:18   Link #159
zeando
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
But what you are REALLY saying, is that 250 people or so are able to do whatever they want because they are gods. Because they are not accountable. Because they are obeyed.
I may be the devil's advocate here, but i saw that being said or implied only from people replying to Qilin.

what those brains believe to be should have no importance, than instead the results they operate
it's being a trend here judging the results from their maker's personal reasoning, instead of judjing the results alone
if the results are bad, they're bad regardless if the ones behind it are ebil crazy brains or loving teddy bears with the best intentions, same if the results are good, even if having something "good" from something "bad" would be counterintuitive

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
Psychopaths are not objective. They are extremely self centered and biased! They're thinking "me! me! me!" all the time. They're arrogant.
are you sure you're not mixing up being a psychopath with being selfish and selfcentered?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
As others have pointed out, Masaoka's crime co-efficient went up until he accepted the Sybil system. Yayoi's went up after she started listening to music that the Sybil system disapproved of. Kougami's started to go up after he became fixated on solving the murder of someone one of the Sybil brains had killed. It's hard to believe, after hearing Touma talk, that the Sybil brains are objective and acting in people's best interests rather than in the interests of preserving the system that gives the brains their "I'm a god!" kicks. Not least that psychopaths really don't give a damn about other people. Why should they be able to make better decisions than, say, Kougami or Tsunemori?
this is an important part which needed to get addressed, which is in the list of the sibyl's flaws

since we're quite agreeing the reactions on masaoka, yayoi, kougami, and many others being imprisoned from being "latent" criminals was a self-preservation mechanism of the system, what is left is deciding if self-preservation is always a bad thing
many seems to agree it is always bad
personally i don't agree much with that, since any human and also living being(except some rare exceptions) have self-preservation mechanisms, and that doesn't make all humans and living beings being bad cause they preserve themselfes, so for me it's more of a neutral trait than good/bad

it should be more about how the reaction is done, if its entity is measured on the treat, and what is the range of reaction from treats
from that point of view, the sibyl is a bit paranoid in its reactions
many of the latent criminals imprisoned like yayoi, and the artist they visited during the school sculpture episodes, didn't look so treating to justify a
detention :/

anyway, since this is more of a discussion about the sibyl sistem than the episode itself, wouldn't it be better to more this to the sibyl discussion thread? .-.

Last edited by zeando; 2013-02-17 at 12:52.
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Old 2013-02-17, 12:25   Link #160
Dengar
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People don't notice Sibyl being corrupt because it keeps a low profile, but they ARE in fact, doing whatever they want.


Since villains with bad publicity never fare well.
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