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Old 2013-02-18, 19:36   Link #61
kyp275
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I think an important factor is how well-off the immigrant's (especially Asians) are back in their home country.
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Old 2013-02-18, 19:47   Link #62
ArchmageXin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Cause View Post
If that's the case, and being this is the American Politics thread. Tell me why Obama is trying to make easier and less illeagal for said immigrants to stay in America? I mean he's almost giving them amnesty to stay here.
And if it's so bad here, why do they risk life and limb to get here?
First, the people I quoted are not illegals, they come on student visa, as opposed to people who hike across the border. They either get sponsored by a company or get married.

Second, Obama's plan does have certain merits, as most folks who stay does generate/grow the economy. They aren't here for the Welfare rolls as some in the GOP claims. Because if you don't have a legal social security number you aren't qualified for any benefits.

Obama has two good reasons to grant them legal status.

First, if they are legal, they pay taxes into the system rather than live in a black economy. Which both 1) Increase crime 2) subject people to exploitation.

Second reason: He get more voters that way. We already saw that with the Latino voters that crushed Mittens "I will self deport them" Romney. If he can grant the same for asian Immigrants, (A potential GOP bloc since they are usually socially conservative and pro business), he will deny GOP inroad in that direction.

----------------------
RE: Your second question why people still risk coming here.

First, see my post above for non economic reasons.

Economically,

Is a case of the U.S Dollar. A Dollar is worth X pesos or Y Yuan, so a Chinese or Latino can earn a small/decent wage here that translate into a larger gain when they get home , so once the dollar get weak enough, immigration will also stop.
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Old 2013-02-18, 20:40   Link #63
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Cause View Post
And if it's so bad here, why do they risk life and limb to get here?
This is the wrong question to be asking. Thus far nobody said it was bad here. However, if you're going to say that this is "the greatest nation on Earth" or "the last bastion of hope and freedom," you may want to ask yourself why there are citizens and legal immigrants who voluntarily leave the country.
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Old 2013-02-18, 20:56   Link #64
Dr. Casey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
Instead of making a US Election 2016 thread in February of 2013, shouldn't we just have a "US Politics" thread?


What say you, mods?
What the...

My friend Urzu betrayed me and got the mods to change the thread's name without my input. I will never love again.


I won't weigh in on the illegal immigration issue, but I do wish the process of legally becoming a citizen would become easier. Talk about a pain in the rear.
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Old 2013-02-18, 21:09   Link #65
Kyuu
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Mississippi...

Once again proves how embarrassing it is as a state...

Quote:
After 148 years, Mississippi finally ratifies 13th Amendment, which banned slavery
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...anned-slavery/

And written in Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirtee...s_Constitution

Mississippi did vote to ratify it... back in 1995. But failed to file it to the US Archivist. That's either intentional... or sheer incompetence. I say both. Gotta keep those Confederate dreams alive, y'know.
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Old 2013-02-18, 21:14   Link #66
Dr. Casey
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So if I moved to Mississippi before this happened I could've owned slaves?

Son of a, talk about a wasted opportunity. I could've had kyp as a slave and made him do my college homework for me.
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Old 2013-02-18, 23:06   Link #67
kyp275
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Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
So if I moved to Mississippi before this happened I could've owned slaves?

Son of a, talk about a wasted opportunity. I could've had kyp as a slave and made him do my college homework for me.
pfft, you wish

It's indeed embarrassing, but since slavery is banned on the federal level, it doesn't really matter what Mississippi's law says
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Old 2013-02-18, 23:45   Link #68
ganbaru
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I guess than here is the best place to post this link:
Can the Republicans Be Saved From Obsolescence?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/ma...olescence.html
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Old 2013-02-19, 02:02   Link #69
mangamuscle
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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
I guess than here is the best place to post this link:
Can the Republicans Be Saved From Obsolescence?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/ma...olescence.html
I think the answer the article is giving is clear "NO, until the top dogs of the GOP die of old age"
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Old 2013-02-19, 03:39   Link #70
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
I think the answer the article is giving is clear "NO, until the top dogs of the GOP die of old age"
Wait... are you saying those old farts aren't actually immortal?
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Old 2013-02-19, 03:43   Link #71
Ithekro
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If Strom Thurmond can die of old age, anyone can.
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Old 2013-02-19, 04:24   Link #72
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
pfft, you wish

It's indeed embarrassing, but since slavery is banned on the federal level, it doesn't really matter what Mississippi's law says
Pfft. States' rights!!!
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Old 2013-02-19, 05:30   Link #73
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Cause View Post
If that's the case, and being this is the American Politics thread. Tell me why Obama is trying to make easier and less illeagal for said immigrants to stay in America? I mean he's almost giving them amnesty to stay here.
And if it's so bad here, why do they risk life and limb to get here?
Actually Immigration was far less strict in the "good old days". So Obama isn't so much changing as much as restoring the old "join us and make us stronger!" mentallity.

Back in the Cold War America was proud that people want to become citizens. It makes them look better than the Soviets. Now it is all about tall electric fences.

And many still have the old dream of the Land of Opportunity propaganda. They won't know what it is really like until they arrive. That's why I say it is important to assess net flow of immigrants instead of just counting the arrivals. If people are leaving as fast as they are arriving, it means their expectations were not met.
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Old 2013-02-19, 06:20   Link #74
Kyuu
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Republicans alienated the immigrants; and they paid for it in terms of votes -- particularly among the Latino community. The previous election results show that.
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Old 2013-02-19, 06:53   Link #75
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Immigrants didn't mind voting for the old Republican party. They were less extreme back then.

But now? The GOP has given up. I mean, increase immigration should NOT mean increase in democrat votes over the GOP. Not if the GOP did their jobs and make their party viable for immigrants. So to try and restrict immigration to weaken Obama is the wrong way to do things.

Right now, GOP thinks of immigrants as the enemy. And that becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
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Old 2013-02-19, 09:24   Link #76
Solace
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Just a historical note. The reason the US immigration policy is so harsh is because of the massive influx of immigrants during the early 1900's. My family is an example of this, having come from Ireland before the Depression. And yes, immigration prejudice applied even then. Not only among "real" Americans, but among the different ethnic groups as well. Irish need not apply and all that.
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Old 2013-02-19, 10:25   Link #77
mangamuscle
formerly ogon bat
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
If Strom Thurmond can die of old age, anyone can.
Mhh, Dick Cheney should have already died due to hearth illnes, so modern medical science might prolong their lives beyond the 20 years the article mentions young republicans expect to wait to seize the reigns of the GOP.
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Old 2013-02-19, 15:01   Link #78
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Just a historical note. The reason the US immigration policy is so harsh is because of the massive influx of immigrants during the early 1900's. My family is an example of this, having come from Ireland before the Depression. And yes, immigration prejudice applied even then. Not only among "real" Americans, but among the different ethnic groups as well. Irish need not apply and all that.
Very true. There was a very interesting segment on The Daily Show that was pretty eye-opening over this. They phrasing was almost the exact same as what you would hear today: that America's identity and values were going to be lost, that our greatness was at stake, and so on. The targets of such phrasings changed with time, but it has apparently been with us for at least as long as we have records of publications.
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Old 2013-02-19, 15:39   Link #79
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Very true. There was a very interesting segment on The Daily Show that was pretty eye-opening over this. They phrasing was almost the exact same as what you would hear today: that America's identity and values were going to be lost, that our greatness was at stake, and so on. The targets of such phrasings changed with time, but it has apparently been with us for at least as long as we have records of publications.
ironically some of the people speaking these phrases are descendents of people who targeted by these phrases 100 years ago.
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Old 2013-02-19, 15:53   Link #80
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Very true. There was a very interesting segment on The Daily Show that was pretty eye-opening over this. They phrasing was almost the exact same as what you would hear today: that America's identity and values were going to be lost, that our greatness was at stake, and so on. The targets of such phrasings changed with time, but it has apparently been with us for at least as long as we have records of publications.
It's not just America, it happens everywhere.
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