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Old 2011-10-24, 22:58   Link #1701
woodearth
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LOL, Nakamura Yuuichi says the darndest things.

Spoiler for Macross F Movie 2 interviews:
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Old 2011-10-24, 23:26   Link #1702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodearth View Post
LOL, Nakamura Yuuichi says the darndest things.

Spoiler for Macross F Movie 2 interviews:
I called this... about months ago? Nakamura and I share a psychic link.
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Old 2011-10-24, 23:50   Link #1703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodearth View Post
LOL, Nakamura Yuuichi says the darndest things.

Spoiler for Macross F Movie 2 interviews:
LOL. And that is why I love this guy.

*desperately wants to watch that interview/panel NOW*
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Old 2013-02-17, 22:37   Link #1704
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I finally found a link to a person who took the time to prove the dramatic change in the movies: here. Sheryl steals almost every scene from Ranka that was important in order to win.

This is not for starting a war but pointing out the link should others that are still here from the group that wish to check it out. Since it is love triangle related, I place it in the romance thread.
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Old 2013-02-18, 01:54   Link #1705
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Although I am 100% certain that Alto ended up in a happy romantic relationship with Sheryl in the TV series, I can't state that with 100% factual accuracy, since the series ended before outright making it clear to everybody. I've already discussed in excruciating detail in the past years why I am so certain of by beliefs, so I really don't want to spend the time repeating that debate. We both know that we won't budge from our position.

And that's all I have to say about that.
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Old 2013-02-18, 02:22   Link #1706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
I finally found a link to a person who took the time to prove the dramatic change in the movies: here. Sheryl steals almost every scene from Ranka that was important in order to win.

This is not for starting a war but pointing out the link should others that are still here from the group that wish to check it out. Since it is love triangle related, I place it in the romance thread.
One word.

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Old 2013-02-18, 03:39   Link #1707
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Once again, the link was directed at other members of the forum. This means AR fans that still lurk here, people who wish to read it, and so forth. You are the only ones here. So get off your high horse.
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Old 2013-02-18, 04:16   Link #1708
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I don't care about the shipping thing, I want to point out that the screenshot comparision you linked has been done in reverse too before, by many people and discussed here to death since 2011. Also, the owner of that blog made a lot of posts taking interview lines and scenes completely out of context, misunderstanding things and trying to present them as truth. He also plays victim when anyone tries to point out he got something wrong, which is the main reason you won't find Sheryl fans and neautral fans posting there. At least ghostlightning's blog provided a balanced discussion and many people could add their insights, people who actually did the research. And ghost is a Ranka-fan too.
I personaly think you can read into the scenes whatever you like and ship whoever, so I'm only leaving this here in case anyone else stumbles on that blog which is highly likely. It's a great place for shippers on one side, but terribly inacurrate when it comes to quotes and analasys of what the creators said for example.
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Old 2013-02-18, 04:48   Link #1709
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Which is a rote for most Ranka fans. At least I always admitted when I had gotten something factually wrong.

Anybody remember the "whom did Alto salute to?" debate back then? Good stuff. In the "melt your brain" way. ^^
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Old 2013-02-18, 06:40   Link #1710
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I remember worse. The only reason I had my ups and downs with Ranka was becuase of the ship wars and some of the fans (the lady with the long running shounen series title in her name anyone?), which is one of the reasons I like Ranka now and have no problems with the AruRan ship.

I don't mind that people see certain scenes in a different way and support their favourite character/ship/whatever. Nor do I mind posts on the subject.
I start rolling my eyes when some events and words get twisted, but I can live with that too. My problem is when people dedicate public posts for this and then dismiss discussion on it from any other angle that doesn't suit their own views, not to mention playing the victim. Ghostlightning would shoot people down sometimes and I didn't always agree with his views, but he never told anyone to get out or don't even bother commenting. That's called being a horrible sport and I'm not in to supporting that kind of attitude. There has to be a better way to support something you like.


I wish the new game would be an anime so we could move on and talk about the new ladies. From what little there is to know I like all 3 characters already. I wonder if the multiple endings part means that Lion will have a chance to end up with both, or if it'll always be the same girl but with different outcomes. Figures that we get a zentradi scientist pilot main girl and it's only for a game.
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Old 2013-02-18, 07:14   Link #1711
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My point is the screenshot comparisons ring very true that he pointed out. And I talked about them a while back too. Since I haven't the time to hassle with it, that link pretty much sums up my points.

Never mind that I am still adamant about Sheryl being 3/4 of the movie like a cash cow. No offense, but seriously... I wish there was more of the other characters, not just... her. I am bitter about that alone at this point. Otherwise, I am more or less on the "parallel universe" understanding, where both females have different chances.

Don't spike my flames. I'd rather not start wars. I like nice conversations at this point. Plus, we're all waiting for a new Macross to have new romance to converse about.
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Old 2013-02-18, 08:18   Link #1712
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Originally Posted by Matts View Post
I wish the new game would be an anime so we could move on and talk about the new ladies. From what little there is to know I like all 3 characters already. I wonder if the multiple endings part means that Lion will have a chance to end up with both, or if it'll always be the same girl but with different outcomes. Figures that we get a zentradi scientist pilot main girl and it's only for a game.
And once again one of those moments where it sucks to be not in the Japanese speaking crowd. Oh, well. Maybe someone can post a summary of the plot when it comes out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Never mind that I am still adamant about Sheryl being 3/4 of the movie like a cash cow. No offense, but seriously... I wish there was more of the other characters, not just... her. I am bitter about that alone at this point. Otherwise, I am more or less on the "parallel universe" understanding, where both females have different chances.
Yeah, well, they knew who was the main draw for the public. Funnily enough, I liked that version of Sheryl much less than the one from the series, so their "new take" on the character wasn't as good as the last one.
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Old 2013-02-18, 08:43   Link #1713
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Yeah, well, they knew who was the main draw for the public. Funnily enough, I liked that version of Sheryl much less than the one from the series, so their "new take" on the character wasn't as good as the last one.
At least we found something relevant to agree on.
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Old 2013-02-18, 14:05   Link #1714
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Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
And once again one of those moments where it sucks to be not in the Japanese speaking crowd. Oh, well. Maybe someone can post a summary of the plot when it comes out.
Don't worry, I will keep you informed

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Old 2013-02-18, 16:14   Link #1715
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You are my hero, Tak. <swoon>
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Old 2013-02-19, 07:48   Link #1716
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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
My point is the screenshot comparisons ring very true that he pointed out. And I talked about them a while back too. Since I haven't the time to hassle with it, that link pretty much sums up my points.

Never mind that I am still adamant about Sheryl being 3/4 of the movie like a cash cow. No offense, but seriously... I wish there was more of the other characters, not just... her. I am bitter about that alone at this point. Otherwise, I am more or less on the "parallel universe" understanding, where both females have different chances.

Don't spike my flames. I'd rather not start wars. I like nice conversations at this point. Plus, we're all waiting for a new Macross to have new romance to converse about.
Not really this was actually pointed out to me by a Ranka fan, but Ranka ended up better off in the movies as well. Her character design was altered to become more curvy (her bust is bigger and hips are wider and she has more of butt). Its really obvious when she wore that bikini in the SnT, speaking of bikini her wardrobe got a complete makeover and the clothes she wears in the movies she now wears heels and most of her outfits (sans Niji iro Kuma outfits and even then) are more age appropriate. Besides that she's known Alto from before the start of the movies. On top of that she's actually more mature and is more likely to think things through, and isn't ready to just accept what people tell her.

On top of that it was her who gave SMS a fighting chance when she did the right thing and told her brother her concerns about the Vajra, it was because of her that the idea to spring Sheryl out of jail happened in the first place, and they would have succeeded if not for pure bad luck. Her actions also directly caused SMS to get wind of Galaxy's plan and alert the other colonies.

So yeah, the idea that Ranka fans love to parade about Ranka being short-changed in the movies is stupid. Laughable even. All they're really upset about is the fact that she didn't win the love triangle.
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Old 2013-02-19, 10:26   Link #1717
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
On top of that it was her who gave SMS a fighting chance when she did the right thing and told her brother her concerns about the Vajra, it was because of her that the idea to spring Sheryl out of jail happened in the first place, and they would have succeeded if not for pure bad luck. Her actions also directly caused SMS to get wind of Galaxy's plan and alert the other colonies.
Before you mouth off that comment, remember that in the series by the time she had a chance to understand her connection with the Vajra as being series, Ozma was a wanted fiend thanks to Mishima. You really lose track of that.

Also, in regards to everything else you wrote, Sheryl claimed all of Ranka's scenes. The screenshots do not lie. She turned into the so-called Ranka from here except she was three times more clingy than Ranka will ever be. She needed Alto's support too much for a character who could supposedly stand on her own. Then her fake death arrives whereas Ranka should've left with the Vajra. As the other person put it: "absence makes the heart grow fonder." So yeah; your logic fails.

After all, I will compare the Frontier series and movies together here with SDF and DYRL.
In the original Macross, the series and movie displayed the characters in a similar aspect with very little changes; both girls also had ample time with the main character; and also a very important thing to note: no scenes were changed between girls.
Frontier did not do this. Instead, Sheryl's scene with Alto before the final battle becomes Ranka; both along the lines of rejecting the other; and both received similar treatment.
When are you going to wake up and see that since the two are parallel that this is a mirror effect here? And in that respect, Ranka won the series and Sheryl won the movies. It ends all discussion. There cannot be two different sequences in a parallel world, they must run side-by-side. So in that case, Alto had to reject Sheryl in the series because he reject Ranka in the same moment in the movies. It is pure logic.

There is very little chance that Sheryl won in the series. After all, had she won, Alto wouldn't have been so fragile and broken after Ranka's departure nor would he have accepted Mishima's offers; instead, he would've done things accordingly, thought things through, and considered Sheryl's condition and mindset before accepting such offers. Instead, he jumped the gun, as they say, and went head first into things with no guarantee of survival. Not only that but he constantly continued to think about Ranka's departure the whole freaking time. He couldn't let Ranka go. What does that tell you? So what if he's still trying to understand her leave? The point of every flashback scene is to tell you he is thinking of her, trying to understand her, and missing her presence. She is obviously someone who comforts him. And in that point of the series, Sheryl apparently wasn't giving enough comfort for him to relax and prepare for their final showdown because he was tense right up until the end, especially when around Sheryl.

I'll be frank; I ain't trying to start a fight. I am simply stating my point of view that apparently other fans, and not just Ranka fans, have noticed about the series. There are quite a few sane Sheryl fans who've noticed his tenseness throughout the end of the series and discovered the loss of Ranka brought this about. Once you notice it, he isn't quite himself during those final episodes. He mutates into a man whose half-alive. He needed Ranka, she left him to stop the war (with a sideline of him being too indecisive), and it was, in essence, his fault. He should've been true to his feelings (no matter who they'd belonged to) long beforehand. He caused quite a bit of misunderstandings from both girls.

I wish everyone would stop pitting the love triangle related crap on the girls for once and pin it on the boy.

I am done with this discussion because it seems irrelevant to discuss any Macross related things without being bombarded with people who always think they're right. Unless you have solid proof from Kawamori that he intended all along for Alto and Sheryl to be together since the series, then the love triangle is still entirely open minded and up for debate. Plus, since the movies are a parallel of the series, whatever happened in the series rings true in the movies (therefore the mirror effect of Alto rejecting Ranka became Alto rejecting Sheryl in the series).

-ends conversation for good, will not reply again-
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Old 2013-02-19, 12:08   Link #1718
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Well, this is certainly a way to claim "victory". ^^

From what I saw, the writers were telling us in the movie that, even with Ranka and Sheryl changing their position, Sheryl would still win, because Alto genuinely loved her in a romantic way.

But if you never accepted that conclusion ( TV Alto romantically loves Sheryl over Ranka) in the first place, I guess that would skew your perspective on the issue.
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Old 2013-02-19, 18:25   Link #1719
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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Before you mouth off that comment, remember that in the series by the time she had a chance to understand her connection with the Vajra as being series, Ozma was a wanted fiend thanks to Mishima. You really lose track of that.

Also, in regards to everything else you wrote, Sheryl claimed all of Ranka's scenes. The screenshots do not lie. She turned into the so-called Ranka from here except she was three times more clingy than Ranka will ever be. She needed Alto's support too much for a character who could supposedly stand on her own. Then her fake death arrives whereas Ranka should've left with the Vajra. As the other person put it: "absence makes the heart grow fonder." So yeah; your logic fails.

After all, I will compare the Frontier series and movies together here with SDF and DYRL.
In the original Macross, the series and movie displayed the characters in a similar aspect with very little changes; both girls also had ample time with the main character; and also a very important thing to note: no scenes were changed between girls.
Frontier did not do this. Instead, Sheryl's scene with Alto before the final battle becomes Ranka; both along the lines of rejecting the other; and both received similar treatment.
When are you going to wake up and see that since the two are parallel that this is a mirror effect here? And in that respect, Ranka won the series and Sheryl won the movies. It ends all discussion. There cannot be two different sequences in a parallel world, they must run side-by-side. So in that case, Alto had to reject Sheryl in the series because he reject Ranka in the same moment in the movies. It is pure logic.

There is very little chance that Sheryl won in the series. After all, had she won, Alto wouldn't have been so fragile and broken after Ranka's departure nor would he have accepted Mishima's offers; instead, he would've done things accordingly, thought things through, and considered Sheryl's condition and mindset before accepting such offers. Instead, he jumped the gun, as they say, and went head first into things with no guarantee of survival. Not only that but he constantly continued to think about Ranka's departure the whole freaking time. He couldn't let Ranka go. What does that tell you? So what if he's still trying to understand her leave? The point of every flashback scene is to tell you he is thinking of her, trying to understand her, and missing her presence. She is obviously someone who comforts him. And in that point of the series, Sheryl apparently wasn't giving enough comfort for him to relax and prepare for their final showdown because he was tense right up until the end, especially when around Sheryl.

I'll be frank; I ain't trying to start a fight. I am simply stating my point of view that apparently other fans, and not just Ranka fans, have noticed about the series. There are quite a few sane Sheryl fans who've noticed his tenseness throughout the end of the series and discovered the loss of Ranka brought this about. Once you notice it, he isn't quite himself during those final episodes. He mutates into a man whose half-alive. He needed Ranka, she left him to stop the war (with a sideline of him being too indecisive), and it was, in essence, his fault. He should've been true to his feelings (no matter who they'd belonged to) long beforehand. He caused quite a bit of misunderstandings from both girls.

I wish everyone would stop pitting the love triangle related crap on the girls for once and pin it on the boy.

I am done with this discussion because it seems irrelevant to discuss any Macross related things without being bombarded with people who always think they're right. Unless you have solid proof from Kawamori that he intended all along for Alto and Sheryl to be together since the series, then the love triangle is still entirely open minded and up for debate. Plus, since the movies are a parallel of the series, whatever happened in the series rings true in the movies (therefore the mirror effect of Alto rejecting Ranka became Alto rejecting Sheryl in the series).

-ends conversation for good, will not reply again-
And you forget that in the tv series she also make the colossally bad decisions (try to excuse it all you want but at the end of the day they were still bad decisions that she made). She didn't speak up for herself, and was prone to rushing ahead without thinking first, and she didn't seek the advice of people around her besides Alto, who didn't know anything. Everything that the SMS characters figured out in the tv series, they figured on their own.

Movie Ranka doesn't have anymore information on the Vajra than Tv series, Ranka does, actually you could argument that she has even less. Movie Ranka didn't gain the knowledge of the Vajra that episode 15 Ranka had, until halfway through SnT, when they scanned her body, after she informed her brother of her concerns, she also never gains the knowledge of episodes 21 to 25 Ranka. So yeah your claim that movie Ranka somehow had more knowledge than tv series Ranka is incorrect, because it wasn't that movie Ranka somehow had more knowledge, it was just that she was more cautious with the little knowledge she did have.

Oh really that's funny because I seem to remember there being a hell of a lot of new Ranka scenes in the movies. In the first movie we actually see more of Ranka than we do of Sheryl, and in the second movie, their screen time is the same. Not to forget that most of Nyan Clip, two singles, most of the Christmas album, a CM album, and on top of that she had more songs and concerts in the second movie than Sheryl.

Oh yeah and your argument about Sheryl "stealing" Ranka's scenes, totally ignores the fact that Sheryl just met Alto, and unlike Ranka she actually does need more scenes to establish herself enough to be believable contestant in the love triangle. Not to forget the blog's comparison that you posted is totally posted it completely out of context. In fact I could come up with a arguments that all of those "moments" aren't similar at all or even that those so-called Ranka moments are in fact not Ranka moments, though I don't need to as its already been pointed out numerous times. Those scenes are visual parallels and that's just it, they are merely visual parallels nothing more. For those comparisons to hold true you'd have to ignore everything else (mood, setting, dialogue, and the sequence of events that led up to them) for both the tv series and the movies, which the owner of that blog did.

Also what? We must be in a bizarro universe, because that the only way I can see your logic making any sense. Might I remind you that in the tv series Alto was considering killing Ranka if she ever stood as an enemy of Frontier and he only didn't because Sheryl begged him not to. How is that in anyway romantic? How does that helps Ranka's case with Alto? How is it even that even an example of "absence makes the heart grow fonder"? Alto was conflicted because he had no idea what Ranka was thinking, and neither did those she left behind, not her fans, her friends, or even her brother. It wasn't shown as a romantic confliction. Ditto for the movies the scenes of Sheryl being branded a traitor (not through misunderstanding) and Alto being conflicted about it happens for both movies, in both cases it wasn't romantic and served as a way to keep them from understanding one another. Alto gets over by the second movie, when he joins the others springing her out of prison. However unlike the tv series with Ranka where it was a just a misunderstanding, caused by Alto not really listening to Ranka and Ranka's inability to confide in people besides Alto, plus he is unsure of her position; Sheryl really is a spy and therefore a traitor she's also a stranger, so Alto actually had a lot more to get over before he could even consider caring about her as a friend.

Again Ranka was in a much better position than Sheryl in both the movies and the tv series. Since in the tv series they had a lot of mutual friends, from episodes 1-11 she had a lot more free time, her only real obstacle was herself since she didn't think to ask for his number or to look up the most basic information about him. Ranka just never took advantage of her advantage, she wasn't proactive in pursuing him, on the other hand Sheryl spends so much time with Alto because she does actively pursues him. In the movies Ranka is Alto's friend, and Sheryl was a spy who Alto was outright told not to hang around, Ranka is actually proactive in pursuing Alto, Sheryl does not actively pursue Alto (because she can't), plus advantages that she did in the tv series.

Also absence can make the heart grow fonder but it won't make you fall in love with someone, nor does it make you fall out of love with somebody else, and too much of it can make the heart grow yonder. The reason why absence makes the heart grow fonder is because the fondness was already there, and the absence of that person forces one to become aware of just how fond of that person they were, in that same time it is quite possible to fall in love with somebody else and when you do its a sign that you most likely weren't as fond of the absentee as you thought. It also depends on the determination of a person to keep the fondness of the absentee. In fact there are a lot of real life of people moving on from those who they believe to be dead.

Except there was no indication of Alto being in love with Ranka in the tv series at all. The only scene you can use for your argument as an indication of that was debuked as having nothing to do with romance. Most of their interactions are one-sided with Ranka piling on the affection and Alto not responding to it or just outright ignoring it. Their entire relationship (in the tv series anyway) is based on Ranka asking Alto for advice and Alto giving her the advice she asks for. However on the flip side Alto doesn't reveal himself to Ranka and holds her at arms with her being none the wiser. Alto cannot read Ranka's moods, he can't tell is something is wrong with her, he needed other people to spell out her intentions for him. As opposed to Sheryl where he knows that something is wrong and chases her down and actually gets angry with her, when she won't tell him what it is.

Actually you calling Sheryl needy is hilarious considering it was Alto who sought her out, after Sheryl tried to keep her distance. Also Sheryl deliberately hid the fact that she had a terminal illness (he found out that she was ill from Klan), and in episode 24 she tried to "set him free" which he had problems with. Sheryl never once holds her illness over his head as reason why he should stay with her. Sheryl in movie she only makes any real effort to pursue Ranka, she pushes Alto away from her, it is Alto who chases after Sheryl when she does. Sheryl only pursues him in the movie once, when he is injured in the hospital.

Really some times I read your post and wonder if you were watching some other show that you constantly mistake for Macross Frontier, but hey whatever floats your boat.
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Old 2013-02-20, 02:44   Link #1720
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I miss the old cookie system.
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