AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Naruto

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-02-20, 12:12   Link #21
Ulquiorra
Espada
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
These type of overpowered DBZ level fights don't really work in the manga and can really only be appreciated in the anime. It is just hard to follow the action. I am actually glad it is over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrShady View Post
I just get the feeling that Kishi wrote himself into a corner and pulled a Kubo and just decided not to care about some plot holes.
Kishi has been in fanservice mode for a while.

Betting anything Mito becomes important in the next chapter. You got the goofy guy with the heart of gold and the grumpy genius. Time for the girl they both like.
__________________
Ulquiorra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 12:16   Link #22
DoubtGin
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
a flashback IN my flashback?!
DoubtGin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 12:19   Link #23
mrShady
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
These type of overpowered DBZ level fights don't really work in the manga and can really only be appreciated in the anime. It is just hard to follow the action. I am actually glad it is over.


Kishi has been in fanservice mode for a while.

Betting anything Mito becomes important in the next chapter. You got the goofy guy with the heart of gold and the genius. Time for the girl they both like.
He should finish it up with Sakura being a distant relative of Mito
Minato a distant senju offspring (possible illegitimate gran kid of Tobirama)
And Sasuke the great grandson of Madara's brother (izuna?) and we're all set.
mrShady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 12:20   Link #24
The Small One
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Germany
Quote:
Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
itachi's good nature was also a retcon, but it works out pretty well considering how many chapters had already passed in the manga.
What exactly about Itachi was retconned?
I remember that when he first appeared, I and a few others already mentioned the possibility of him beeing a spy inside Akatsuki and working for Konoha, which turned out to be true.
The Small One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 12:20   Link #25
felix
sleepyhead
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: event horizon
I don't mind the retcons, it be more of a drama series otherwise.
__________________
felix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 12:31   Link #26
ranchan13
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
It's just what I always wanted in my manga!!!!
A flashback in my flashback!
How did you know Kishi???

/sarcasm
__________________
Combat
ELEment
STrategic
Integrated
Artificial
Lifeform
ranchan13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 12:33   Link #27
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
i dont really understand retconning...
did the author of DBZ retcon Goku because he wasn't originally introduced as a super saiyan?
hashirama wasnt brought back at his full strength the first time...
IIRC Dragon Ball made some retconning too. I remember when Vegeta first came to earth fighting Goku and got hit by Goku’s kameha-meha, Vegeta said along the lines of “This can’t be happening! I’m number one in the entire universe!” as he was supposed to be during that arc. Yet, after Vegeta’s defeat as we begin to enter Freeza arc, Vegeta was made (read: retconned) into an underling of Freeza’s army all this time (even before Vegeta came to earth). Not to mention that Toriyama also retconned the origin of Piccolo/Kami from a mythical being into an alien from planet Namek when he began to introduce Freeza arc.

I think it's always like that for many long-running fantasy shounen manga/anime. Believe me, the retconning in Naruto manga is not as bad as retconning in Saint Seiya anime.
__________________
Obelisk ze Tormentor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 12:42   Link #28
mystogan
The Lost Lamb
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: in Darkness
finally the Hashirama vs Madara getting progressed, the chapter was nice and i wasn't expecting for any other relation between the two, but i liked the kid versions of both.
it just reminded me of Tsunade when the markings on Hashirama's face appeared, now they really look related with a technique of markings appearing on the body,
the Kurama in Susano armor was good, but din't like the thousand hands, it looked too much big and even though it might be a thousand times powerful of a technique but din't look cool at all
__________________
mystogan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 12:42   Link #29
Dengar
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Unknown
Age: 29
Retconning doesn't always mean plot hole though.

So far him having Senjutsu does not conflict with the facts.
Dengar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 12:44   Link #30
2Fast
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
This 1000 hand Budha seems very familiar. Remember the episode when Hidan & Kakuza were targetting that monk guy from the fire temple, beause there was a price on it's head? He summoned a spirit version of this Budha thing.
2Fast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 12:49   Link #31
GDB
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
IIRC Dragon Ball made some retconning too. I remember when Vegeta first came to earth fighting Goku and got hit by Goku’s kameha-meha, Vegeta said along the lines of “This can’t be happening! I’m number one in the entire universe!” as he was supposed to be during that arc. Yet, after Vegeta’s defeat as we begin to enter Freeza arc, Vegeta was made (read: retconned) into an underling of Freeza’s army all this time (even before Vegeta came to earth). Not to mention that Toriyama also retconned the origin of Piccolo/Kami from a mythical being into an alien from planet Namek when he began to introduce Freeza arc.
I'd only really count the Piccolo/Kami thing as a retcon. You can attribute Vegeta's thing to arrogance, and even if not, changing something like 10 chapters later isn't that big of a deal. 300 chapters, yes; 10, no.

But it's not like this is the first retcon in Naruto. Danzou, anyone?
GDB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 12:51   Link #32
Kowai
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SURREY
Age: 24
So it's likely that hashirama was the first "ninja" to enter sage mode...
Juugo who is an uzumaki is heavily connected with sage mode.
I am interested to see where the senju and uzumaki intersect and that is prob going to be a flashback to the whirlpool village. Did Oro help crush it? How did he get juugo?

I would t consider hashi having sage mode to be an asspull since he "has the body of the sage"

I think Kishi f*cked up by having 3 clans involved in this, it would be fine to have just the 2 senju an uhichiha, but that wouldn't make sasuke and naruto destined rivals.. Adding the hyuuga would be more satisfying for me, like hyuuga is a branch/offshoot of uchiha and uzumaki is a branch/offshoot of senju.
__________________
sharingan is boring... and sasuke is a bish
Kowai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 13:01   Link #33
Artimus_Prime
The First Rasengan!!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
thanks every time i hear retcon i feel like its being touted as something negative, like the writer is moving the story along week by week without the complete story in mind…
i mean chapter one, a great ninja seals the nine tails in a newborn baby. 500 chapters later, it was his son!!! did kishi not originally ntend for them to be related? is that a retcon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrShady View Post
He was never said to be the strongest Hokage nor did anyone ever mention him as something god like (only his wood powers and him dividing the bijuus was mentioned). Yet here we are with these land changing jutsus that are completely dwarfing pain's destruction of Konoha. So yes it's retconning to the extreme.
I like the action, but it's just weird how powerful these 2 are.
i just feel like everything doesn't have to be said… sure his power wasn't mentioned but that doesn't mean the author didn't originally intend for him to be as powerful as he is…the manga is only like what 10 pages lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
hashirama's strength is a retcon and so is/will be the injection of the senju clan. it's a retcon since it alters what we know of the past. namely that hashirama wasn't that strong when orochimaru ET'd him. retcons aren't bad necessarily, they just shed new light on what has already been shown to us in the past. itachi's good nature was also a retcon, but it works out pretty well considering how many chapters had already passed in the manga. the senju stuff though, is a bit much and doesn't entirely make sense. i think kishi did write himself into a hole with that one. he never should have made hashirama the only senju to use mokuton and have that lifeforce. it's fine if he was the best, but he shouldn't have been the only. and his power is too overwhelming. the story began with each generation surpassing their elders. this is the exact opposite. and we still need a retcon explanation for what happened to the senju
right. because everything can't be explained to us right then and there. we are left to our imagination until the appropriate time to inject such things comes around…at least thats how i see it



Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
I'd only really count the Piccolo/Kami thing as a retcon. You can attribute Vegeta's thing to arrogance, and even if not, changing something like 10 chapters later isn't that big of a deal. 300 chapters, yes; 10, no.

But it's not like this is the first retcon in Naruto. Danzou, anyone?
i think you can reveal something 300 chapters later if the story is appropriately written

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowai View Post
So it's likely that hashirama was the first "ninja" to enter sage mode...
Juugo who is an uzumaki is heavily connected with sage mode.
I am interested to see where the senju and uzumaki intersect and that is prob going to be a flashback to the whirlpool village. Did Oro help crush it? How did he get juugo?

I would t consider hashi having sage mode to be an asspull since he "has the body of the sage"

I think Kishi f*cked up by having 3 clans involved in this, it would be fine to have just the 2 senju an uhichiha, but that wouldn't make sasuke and naruto destined rivals.. Adding the hyuuga would be more satisfying for me, like hyuuga is a branch/offshoot of uchiha and uzumaki is a branch/offshoot of senju.
juugo not an uzumaki

@the poster mentioning Mito. she definitely will have a role. it has already been revealed that she sealed the nine tails in herself. it would be funny if madara was in love with her…he did give his eyes to an uzumaki…


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Retconning doesn't always mean plot hole though.

So far him having Senjutsu does not conflict with the facts.
this
__________________
Mokujin Rasengan
Artimus_Prime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 13:03   Link #34
Poetic Justice
100Shots100Hits LuluLaLu
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Inside your heart...
Age: 25
Send a message via Skype™ to Poetic Justice
Was it ever stated during part 1 that Orochimaru brought back 1st and 2nd at full strength?
__________________
http://img217.imageshack.us/i/clipboard01vt.jpg
Poetic Justice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 13:08   Link #35
Artimus_Prime
The First Rasengan!!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poetic Justice View Post
Was it ever stated during part 1 that Orochimaru brought back 1st and 2nd at full strength?
no but apparently it should have been in order for his strength to be believable...i dont know half the captain bankais in bleach, but when we finally learn what they are, will that be a retcon? (not trying to discuss bleach, just wanted an example)
__________________
Mokujin Rasengan
Artimus_Prime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 13:41   Link #36
mrShady
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
thanks every time i hear retcon i feel like its being touted as something negative, like the writer is moving the story along week by week without the complete story in mind…
i mean chapter one, a great ninja seals the nine tails in a newborn baby. 500 chapters later, it was his son!!! did kishi not originally ntend for them to be related? is that a retcon?

i just feel like everything doesn't have to be said… sure his power wasn't mentioned but that doesn't mean the author didn't originally intend for him to be as powerful as he is…the manga is only like what 10 pages lol

right. because everything can't be explained to us right then and there. we are left to our imagination until the appropriate time to inject such things comes around…at least thats how i see it



i think you can reveal something 300 chapters later if the story is appropriately written

juugo not an uzumaki

@the poster mentioning Mito. she definitely will have a role. it has already been revealed that she sealed the nine tails in herself. it would be funny if madara was in love with her…he did give his eyes to an uzumaki…



this
Retcon: Adding or altering information regarding the back story of a fictional character or world, regardless of whether the change contradicts what was said before.

So has this happened?
Yes. So I don't know why you are being so defensive, I just made an observation and then stated my opinion by calling it a plot hole introducing change. I don't care if you don't agree with me. However you shouldn't make false accusations claiming that everybody here is misusing the term retcon just because you don't consider it a bad story development.
mrShady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 14:06   Link #37
Artimus_Prime
The First Rasengan!!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrShady View Post
Retcon: Adding or altering information regarding the back story of a fictional character or world, regardless of whether the change contradicts what was said before.

So has this happened?
Yes. So I don't know why you are being so defensive, I just made an observation and then stated my opinion by calling it a plot hole introducing change. I don't care if you don't agree with me. However you shouldn't make false accusations claiming that everybody here is misusing the term retcon just because you don't consider it a bad story development.
i do thank you for that definition. i prolly shouldve just looked it up from the beginning..
im not defensive, just not in line with your opinion i.e. i dont think hashiramas strength is a plot hole...

its not about caring...we are sharing opinions are we not?

and i didnt make an accusation (intentionally that is)...simply stated that it feels like the use of word retcon surfaces only to suggest a contradiction has been made. but since reading the definition you provided, my stance is now moot...retconning happens. in this instance i jsut feel like hashirama didnt have to go in to sage mode the first time he was onscreen in order for the appearance now to be believable
__________________
Mokujin Rasengan
Artimus_Prime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 14:08   Link #38
GusGus
Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
At this rate, this year will end before Naruto's fight.

Retconning or not, it's clear that the power ups has gone too damn far in this manga, and now they're just painful to watch. I suppose that the first edo Hashirama had like the 1% of his true power
GusGus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 14:33   Link #39
mrShady
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
i do thank you for that definition. i prolly shouldve just looked it up from the beginning..
im not defensive, just not in line with your opinion i.e. i dont think hashiramas strength is a plot hole...

its not about caring...we are sharing opinions are we not?

and i didnt make an accusation (intentionally that is)...simply stated that it feels like the use of word retcon surfaces only to suggest a contradiction has been made. but since reading the definition you provided, my stance is now moot...retconning happens. in this instance i jsut feel like hashirama didnt have to go in to sage mode the first time he was onscreen in order for the appearance now to be believable
I understand I just get a little annoyed if people disagree with a fact. So let's stop the arguments over this small misunderstanding. No hard feelings. And keep the discussion focused on our opinions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus View Post
At this rate, this year will end before Naruto's fight.

Retconning or not, it's clear that the power ups has gone too damn far in this manga, and now they're just painful to watch. I suppose that the first edo Hashirama had like the 1% of his true power
I agree, though there's nothing we can do about it, it's just a shame it detracts from the overall story.
mrShady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-20, 14:58   Link #40
GDB
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
i think you can reveal something 300 chapters later if the story is appropriately written
Reveal, yes. Completely change, no. Using DBZ as an example, Goku being a Saiyan is a reveal. Piccolo being Namekian instead of a Demon, however, is a change/retcon. Using Naruto, Danzou is a retcon, since if he were as much of a Warhawk who valued the safety of the village above all else as they said, he wouldn't have ignored Orochimaru's attack, not would he have just sat back while they picked a new Hokage without him being in the mix.
GDB is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:14.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.