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Old 2013-02-19, 05:45   Link #21
Hemisphere
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It's not really too early, as they've always released the trials for their titles during this month. It is, however, unpolished.
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Old 2013-02-19, 11:37   Link #22
Darknemo2000
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Wow RTS battles were a total crap. On the other hand story and management seems nice.

If the battles are like that then they should just throw them away and do a simple TBS batlles instead cause right now their RTS just sucks way too much.
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Old 2013-02-19, 12:11   Link #23
Drkz
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Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
Wow RTS battles were a total crap. On the other hand story and management seems nice.

If the battles are like that then they should just throw them away and do a simple TBS batlles instead cause right now their RTS just sucks way too much.
Lol. I heard that a lot. They still have two months to refine. Plus its not like its the full game. Their not known to make crappy games. I'm pretty sure their getting a lot of feedback... hah.
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Old 2013-02-19, 13:24   Link #24
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Lol. I heard that a lot. They still have two months to refine. Plus its not like its the full game. Their not known to make crappy games. I'm pretty sure their getting a lot of feedback... hah.
Well from that I heard of Japanese blogs so far, the feedback is mixed - most are really dissing the RTS battles and retarded AI but praising other elements of it.

As you say they are not know to be making bad games but even Alicesoft had a couple of screw up under their belts and I do not think they will completely redo the battle system.

They probably will make it possible to attack opponents because right now all you can do is make the army move and then just watch as the auto-battle starts but if your archers or knights are turned away from an enemy they will not start shooting on their own, you need to turn them so that they would face the enemy which makes it very tedious. And you cannot influence the battles much but pick your nose and watch as your retarded archers suddenly decide to go for a heroic melee because you due to forgetfulness you forgot that you cannot attack enemy in this game and pointed at the enemy and archers start running at them and end up killed in couple of seconds or so.

I played a couple of Eushully's demos before but this one seems like the least polished with a total mess battles.

This games RTS is like Koei's ROTK XII RTS just worse. And ROTK XII was pretty bad game (Koei for some reason decided to turn the TBS game into RTS and utterly fucked up).

Last edited by Darknemo2000; 2013-02-19 at 13:36.
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Old 2013-02-19, 14:00   Link #25
Hemisphere
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The combat is the most lackluster, glaring fault of this game. Would be nice if they could revert to the old Fire Emblem-ish SRPG system, as Genrin no Kishogun (2) had that combat system and essentially the same idea that this game has.

This game, however, has very much improved over Genrin no Kishogun 2 in just every other aspect. With regards to town management, quests, handling relations with other countries...

The combat, the gameplay (which Eushully is known for) is really the biggest downer so far from the demo. And it's really not going to be pretty if this retarded AI + unpolished RTS system sticks around for the final product.
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Old 2013-02-19, 21:29   Link #26
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Going to try out the demo myself this weekend to get a feel for the gameplay.

//

I do not think it is something they can fix easily. Kamidori and Arterial both have terrible AI. Esp Arterial: as it is a card game it is relatively easier to write something a lot smarter. The computer opponent could have used better decks too.

A refined RTS system with good AI I think is out of reach for Eushully. At least it is not something they can easily fix in two months (its less than that: has to go through testing, bug fixes, more testing, and finally time to roll out the gold master).

This is why I think they went for the right direction in Arterial: have a simpler combat system but potential for a lot of challenges. As I read somewhere that Arterial sales is not as high as the publishers had hoped, maybe they are trying out the other extreme of developing an RTS (vs a static card game).

Plot in kamidori is rather weak (this goes for both story and heroine development: I can compare to a child's tale of having everyone hold hands and get along), although arterial was relatively better ("omg someone died!"). I hope they can further strengthen this aspect in the new game so it does not become a total flop.
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Old 2013-02-19, 23:37   Link #27
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Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post
Going to try out the demo myself this weekend to get a feel for the gameplay.

//

I do not think it is something they can fix easily. Kamidori and Arterial both have terrible AI. Esp Arterial: as it is a card game it is relatively easier to write something a lot smarter. The computer opponent could have used better decks too.

A refined RTS system with good AI I think is out of reach for Eushully. At least it is not something they can easily fix in two months (its less than that: has to go through testing, bug fixes, more testing, and finally time to roll out the gold master).

This is why I think they went for the right direction in Arterial: have a simpler combat system but potential for a lot of challenges. As I read somewhere that Arterial sales is not as high as the publishers had hoped, maybe they are trying out the other extreme of developing an RTS (vs a static card game).

Plot in kamidori is rather weak (this goes for both story and heroine development: I can compare to a child's tale of having everyone hold hands and get along), although arterial was relatively better ("omg someone died!"). I hope they can further strengthen this aspect in the new game so it does not become a total flop.
Ex Bosses where pretty annoying... the red head in Soukoku didn't have a real route... wtf. That made me so mad. I still think the game was fun. It was a nice time waster. I'd agree with Kamidori with the story, but this is eushully.. they're not really known for a very strong plot. The game somewhat followed the same pattern. It wasn't hard to guess how the story would go after you played one route.

They can always fix stuff with patches. They might of put too much things on their plate. AI's are usually hard to code. They usually have hack stats, more gold and units than you or their own personal map vision. Well its up to the gods!
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Old 2013-02-19, 23:48   Link #28
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Originally Posted by Drkz View Post
I'd agree with Kamidori with the story, but this is eushully.. they're not really known for a very strong plot.
No offense intended, but Genrin no Kishogun 2 and Ikuza Megami 0 (and to an extent the Sylphine route in Himegari Dungeon Meister) are strong evidences that point otherwise. Given the lack of translation though, I suppose its no surprise that they're unheard of.

Eushully's been waning in the story department for a while now, but I'm really hoping Madoukaku has a strong one, because it's really a return to form considering their previous titles. Preferrably single-route too, because that's where their strength in story really shines.

EDIT: Eushully's chief just tweeted about the general reception to their upcoming title's trial.

Quote:
本日復帰しました。先程まで魔導巧殻体験版の意見やネット評価をもとに社内で協議しました。まずは悪い点の 深刻さを深く反省をして多くの改善に取り組む方針を確認し、近日に改善点を公式にて告知させていただきます 。さしあたりすり抜けや弓部隊の突出などの改善は確定、いろいろ集めていきます。
It's a good thing that they're not turning a blind eye to the problems many have pointed out, unlike some other companies.
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Old 2013-02-20, 03:22   Link #29
Flying Dagger
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Originally Posted by Drkz View Post
Ex Bosses where pretty annoying... the red head in Soukoku didn't have a real route... wtf. That made me so mad. I still think the game was fun. It was a nice time waster. I'd agree with Kamidori with the story, but this is eushully.. they're not really known for a very strong plot. The game somewhat followed the same pattern. It wasn't hard to guess how the story would go after you played one route.
Atori kind of have a route: the whole EX dreamland dungeon is all about her. Originally I was looking forward to Sayane's route given her ojousama attitude, but doing Dreamlands with Atori just completely blow Sayane and other heroines out of the water.

Even though Arterial has a better story than Kamidori, I feel there needs to be less stupid stuff and more room for a gradual character development. Mehisha s a prime example imo: she went from hating humans, to somehow putting up with them after a few victories, and just went completely deredere on Syuya when you enter her route.

Finishing Devil route in Arterial so I can get the "Atori end" in angel route on a 4th playthrough.

On Arterial game balance (and just balance in general):
in Kamidori and Arterial, "hard" stuff are often units with game breaking abilities (ie: mobs with instant death/Prevail, a 50% stat boost, in Kamidori... Cards with impossibly high attack in Arterial), or very high stats.

In order to beat those challenges, often time you have to utilize very game breaking mechanics as well. When you have the tools to conquer that pinnacle of challenge, the rest of the game just becomes a snooze... (I sense Kamidori tried to fix this by allowing even the weakest enemy to scale up in levels, but the scaling is done poorly and things die in 1 hit anyway).

Early game is the most fun in Kamidori and Arterial when it takes several turns to kill off an enemy. Esp in Kamidori when money is tight in the early game when you cannot spam potions and rely on a single heal from a unit with limited mana ("Yuela you better dodge that next attack!).

Things they can have done in Arterial:
- Smarter AI, use attacks and abilities more effectively and stop throwing away cards.
- Computer opponents should be able to use Item cards. The player's deck is usually already optimized: do we really need to have extra stats (up to +6/+6 when cards avg from 5/5 to 14/14)
- Computers need better decks. Most computer Leaders have 2 summoning powers: why are there so many Cost 1 cards in their decks when the computer does not know how to utilize them properly? How about stronger team synergy or some sort of a buff with enemy leaders (such as "All Devils take 2 less damage" instead of "Gain 1 non-stacking attack when a card is played")?

Maybe because of the "not as great" sales of Arterial, endgame content is rather limited. Dreamland was rather short. AFB was fun but still did not offer much of a challenge.


//


Even if they want to "fix" things. Given the limited development time I doubt there is much they can really do beside stop units from attacking trees and having your ranged units run heads on into an enemy due to awkward controls. I will pay for an extra copy of the game if the AI have units that gives a movement debuff and their ranged units start to kite my melee units while using their melee units to intercept my movements...

Games like Eien no Aselia, kamidori and Arterial taught me that even simple game systems can be enjoyable.

They should just have licensed a RTS engine (age of empires had a few licensee, not sure if blizzard will let vanilla starcraft to be licensed by an eroge maker...) and added their own elements to it. I mean, Madoukaku can't have a worse plot than SC2 and I am willing to spend years playing an RTS with cute girls saying things in their cute voices.
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Old 2013-02-20, 03:33   Link #30
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Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post
Atori kind of have a route: the whole EX dreamland dungeon is all about her. Originally I was looking forward to Sayane's route given her ojousama attitude, but doing Dreamlands with Atori just completely blow Sayane and other heroines out of the water.
Atori's "story" and ending is even better once the connections to Dir Lyfna are made with knowledge of the world's background setting in mind coming from previous titles (the 108 demons of Solomon, the "attempt" of creating a Goddess, the fusion of both worlds hinting as the precursor to the great war that erupted prior to the assimilation of both worlds).

Aterial was pretty much worth playing only for Atori's "route". It was a nice introduction to those new to the lore of Dir Lyfna. It's value was more so for fans of Eu's previous works. A shame the standard Meido gang didn't have as much of a fun cameo in Aterial as they did in previous titles.
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Old 2013-02-20, 03:36   Link #31
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No offense intended, but Genrin no Kishogun 2 and Ikuza Megami 0 (and to an extent the Sylphine route in Himegari Dungeon Meister) are strong evidences that point otherwise. Given the lack of translation though, I suppose its no surprise that they're unheard of.

Eushully's been waning in the story department for a while now, but I'm really hoping Madoukaku has a strong one, because it's really a return to form considering their previous titles. Preferrably single-route too, because that's where their strength in story really shines.

EDIT: Eushully's chief just tweeted about the general reception to their upcoming title's trial.



It's a good thing that they're not turning a blind eye to the problems many have pointed out, unlike some other companies.

I thought Verita was pretty good too. Well honestly, I get what you mean. I've played 8/10 bit games and doujin games that have better stories than today's VNs. Ongoing trend is fancy cg, a game system if applicable and a okish story. If the game has routes for different girls... than wishing for a good story is hard to come by. If you want a good story you should check out Monster Girl Quest. It has a pretty story. Most companies will try to cash in on the latest trends. Like how half the god damn anime season is nothing, but moe. In the 1990s it was story.... now, god knows what.

LOL. Its understandable if their last game had low sales. I'm pretty sure a lot of people got offended with the fact they made a tcg card game. I wonder if the game date will get delayed now.
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Old 2013-02-20, 03:41   Link #32
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Originally Posted by Drkz View Post
I thought Verita was pretty good too. Well honestly, I get what you mean. I've played 8/10 bit games and doujin games that have better stories than today's VNs. Ongoing trend is fancy cg, a game system if applicable and a okish story. If the game has routes for different girls... than wishing for a good story is hard to come by. If you want a good story you should check out Monster Girl Quest. It has a pretty story. Most companies will try to cash in on the latest trends. Like how half the god damn anime season is nothing, but moe. In the 1990s it was story.... now, god knows what.
VERITA was good; Genrin 2 and Ikusa Megami 0 were even better.

This is probably painting the industry with a general brush, and it's not something I'll admit is applicable to all companies, but most of them are now merchandise-driven over content-driven. Merchandise is what fuels their gears now, and while I can understand the need to adapt with the market, some companies have put so much importance in merchandise that the final product just ends up as a shallow, forgettable advertisement for all the cash-in products they release.
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Old 2013-02-20, 04:17   Link #33
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VERITA was good; Genrin 2 and Ikusa Megami 0 were even better.

This is probably painting the industry with a general brush, and it's not something I'll admit is applicable to all companies, but most of them are now merchandise-driven over content-driven. Merchandise is what fuels their gears now, and while I can understand the need to adapt with the market, some companies have put so much importance in merchandise that the final product just ends up as a shallow, forgettable advertisement for all the cash-in products they release.
In the end its all about money. Oh well. That wouldn't stop me from playing them .
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Old 2013-02-20, 08:14   Link #34
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A collectible/merchandise based model will be the inevitable trend given the degree of piracy around.

Piracy and higher development costs these days sucks for developers: the existence for a market for Visual Novels in Japan is rather unique phenomenon: will the western audience he willing to buy something with maybe 100 CGs and a book of text plugged into a rather simple game engine? (oh wait, modern warfare is pretty much also a repackaging of an older game..)

I did not play the earlier Eushully games so I did not know the significance of the Devil route in Arterial. Now the title Arterial "of Origins" makes even more sense.

I recall someone on hongfire pointed out how Sayane's route did not end with a "Fin" screen compared to the other endings. Now that makes sense as well.

Devil route is kind of hard to swallow as the canon route though: having Mehisha going super saiyan and Syuya saving the everyone by raping her... -_-
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Old 2013-02-20, 10:12   Link #35
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That's one of the infuriating things I find in Aterial's story. They tied it to the lore of Dir Lyfna by essentially being the "origin" story, but it was so disjointed thanks to the multiple routes approach. I really wish it just had a single streamlined story if that was the case, as it would have carried more brevity and consistency that way. And it's not like it was even impossible doing so! The story would have probably been longer and better as a result, as the whole angel/devil/human routes (+Atori "route") felt like they were just way too short.

The whole "raping" thing is, again, easier to swallow when you've played older Eu titles. It is, while not so much in full, a sort of their "return to form/back to basics" approach considering their previous titles (the stuff in Aterial are tame in comparison to, say, Meishoku no Genrin). That's not to say that I'm pleased with it...I would rather have my adorable kiss-loving guardian angel, thanks.

Personally speaking, Atori and Mehisha were my only two reasons to play Aterial, really. Disappointed that there were no appends that added more Atori love.
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Old 2013-02-20, 12:23   Link #36
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A collectible/merchandise based model will be the inevitable trend given the degree of piracy around.

Piracy and higher development costs these days sucks for developers: the existence for a market for Visual Novels in Japan is rather unique phenomenon: will the western audience he willing to buy something with maybe 100 CGs and a book of text plugged into a rather simple game engine? (oh wait, modern warfare is pretty much also a repackaging of an older game..)

I did not play the earlier Eushully games so I did not know the significance of the Devil route in Arterial. Now the title Arterial "of Origins" makes even more sense.

I recall someone on hongfire pointed out how Sayane's route did not end with a "Fin" screen compared to the other endings. Now that makes sense as well.

Devil route is kind of hard to swallow as the canon route though: having Mehisha going super saiyan and Syuya saving the everyone by raping her... -_-
No. It'll never get sold in the west. Don't you remember the rapelay fiasco? That stuff was hilarious. A) They didn't buy it. B) They probably get it off Hongfire. C) That mom... rofl. Made me laughing seeing that interview everytime. Thats also why a lot of Japanese companies block foreign or just American IPS. Eroge/VN/Nukie/ or Hentai Games in general only stay in japan thats there target. Anyone with a Japanese IP who gets caught downloading the game illegally gets heavily prosecuted. You need to go through a lot of loops to get the game. If you buy it off a person on yahoo auctions or amazon your probably getting ripped off pretty bad.

I WANT MORE LILY. Best Character Ever.
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Old 2013-02-21, 01:57   Link #37
Flying Dagger
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Finally got time to dig through the site: so many characters! Not sure if its a good or bad thing as development time for each character may lack depth. Although having so many characters might allow a condensed story to be told instead of just getting involved in a single scene every chapter.

So... where are my angels? There is a 光陣営 with a Ruferdiel-like (snake-like) woman, but where are the angels? :O

I chuckled when Mirai said I have an angel fetish.
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Old 2013-02-21, 04:10   Link #38
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Some characters are going to get more focus over the others, with a cast as large as this. At least it's not as big as Genrin 2's though. And I really hope that the story has the countries all interwoven with each other nicely, their respective political agendas considered.

I'm looking forward to seeing Velroca's descendant, Eiferia (Eida), and how she ties in with her ancestor with her character.

Spoiler for Eiferia's ancestor:
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Old 2013-02-21, 04:21   Link #39
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Some characters are going to get more focus over the others, with a cast as large as this. At least it's not as big as Genrin 2's though. And I really hope that the story has the countries all interwoven with each other nicely, their respective political agendas considered.

I'm looking forward to seeing Velroca's descendant, Eiferia (Eida), and how she ties in with her ancestor with her character.

Spoiler for Eiferia's ancestor:
Terriermon when did you end up in a eushully game

So the guy who looks like Shuuya with a eyepatch any idea who he is Hemi?
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Old 2013-02-21, 04:26   Link #40
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Just a recycled character design, most likely.

Spoiler:
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