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Old 2013-02-21, 14:09   Link #4281
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Unfortunately, my dear Tak, the IJA did have the strategic foresight (as I have read a ton of old military records on plans for better guns and more guns for the troops), but the industrial capacity never was up to it. We're looking at a country that was barely keeping up with the demand for the inadequate weapons, you think that producing more resource/skill intensive weapons while stopping the production of the old weapons was possible at all? Heck, China Proper had more de facto industrial capacity than all of Japan at the time.


Really, don't bother saying what you don't know about.
You know, I was once like you, who believed the lack of industrial capacity as a simple clarification to all of Japan's wartime woes. Unfortunately, this proved to be nothing more than a superficial explanation.

While the lack of industrial capacity certainly affected the overall output of the Japanese industry during wartime, its inability to adapt to changing battlefield perimeters would have much more to do with military planners, the zaibatsu and the political rivalry suffered by Japan as a whole.

For the most part, it was the conservatives who halted the production of new weapons rather than a lack of industrial capacity that prevented their production. The Japanese Army had encountered German submachine guns as early as the end of 1918, yet little efforts were made to reverse-engineer them. Why? Because a majority of the conservatives in the army believed that it was unfeasible for an individual to squander ammunition at a rapid capacity and such a weapon was considered wasteful. This prevalent attitude easily rendered whatever military plans & old records for better arms to be more or less worthless because their designers never acquired the permissions to mass produce them until it was too late.

This situation is very similar to the delays in the production of the German ME-262 and the STG44, since Hitler did not approve them, until much later, when it was too late.

Let me give you another example. Ask yourself who was the Commander-in-Chief of the Japanese Imperial Navy. Ask what he wanted to do with the Yamato, ask what he had to put up with from his colleagues, then ask yourself what the Yamato eventually become. Adding to its woes was Yamato's less-than-spectacular wartime contribution.

To address your claim about a lack of industrial capacity. The Imperial Japanese Army produced approximately 8 million rifles of various calibers at a time when the Japanese Army manpower was approximately 6 million. A vast majority of these rifles were as good, if not better than their Allied or Axis counterpart. I for one, do not believe they had difficulties keeping up for the majority of the war.

Unfortunately, most people tend to focus on the last-ditched weapons produced near the end of the war as an evidence of Japan's lagging industrial capacity. In reality, they amounted to only a fraction of Japan's total small-arms production. This situation was not unlike Germany's own small-arms production near 1945. OTOH, I can speak for their quality since I own a couple myself, some still with their seals intact, which in today's market would be considered as collectables.

On another note, after 1949, China's only modern steel production facilities were located in Manchuria, which was built by the Japanese during wartime. That should give you an idea of China's actual industrial capacity as opposed to potential industrial capacity.

Anyway, if you wish to discuss this further, I will welcome it with open arms. But you need not be so insulting.

- Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2013-02-21 at 15:00.
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Old 2013-02-21, 14:23   Link #4282
willx
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^ Relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar...g_World_War_II
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Old 2013-02-21, 15:34   Link #4283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
Team Oarai cosplaying as the other schools.

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And showing that they have been drinking their cups of milk every day.
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Old 2013-02-21, 15:46   Link #4284
LeoXiao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Anyway, if you wish to discuss this further, I will welcome it with open arms. But you need not be so insulting.

- Tak
*brings popcorn*

Looks like this thread has become interesting again.

The only thing I can contribute is that IIRC Japan had a GDP comparable to Italy during WW2.
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Old 2013-02-21, 16:16   Link #4285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Anyway, if you wish to discuss this further, I will welcome it with open arms. But you need not be so insulting.
If the truth is insult, then there is no real hope. If one cannot comprehend that Japan was never efficient in its use of labor given its industrial structure (small firms producing products for the zaibatsu while full-scale assembly system was never implemented), and counts double the number of rifles produced during the entire period of the war, I have to say there is more than a problem or two.


BTW, thanks for reminding me to tend to my guns.
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Old 2013-02-21, 16:16   Link #4286
Ithekro
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One problem I think shared by Germany and Japan was a lack of resources. Not just fuel, but strategic metals used in the contruction of gears, or to coat engine blocks, or even just aluminum was in short supply. While I don't know what specific problems this caused Japan, in Germany it made it so they could not fashion certain parts with the proper materials, so they would break more frequently. The Me262 for example, was suppose to be made with an engine that could withstand the high temperatures the jet put out. But due to a lack of metals, they could only coat the engine resulting it a very short life expectancy for each engine produced. That along with other shortages made such weapons difficult to field with or withour Hitler's say so. Almost all the aluminum was earmarked for the Luftwaffe production lines, and there still wasn't enough for that even. Nickel was in short supply as well.

The later model tanks had similar problems. If they had the metals and time to make a more complex set of gears, they probably could have made the Panther and Tiger tanks reliable, or provided more powerful, but smaller engines to move their weighty bodies across the Soviet Plains.

Judging by the introduction of the Tiger (P), the schools, or whoever actually builds these "sports" tanks, is not allowed to really correct the problems the tanks had with their engineering outside of maybe field repairs and maybe juryrig type fixes, unless there was a real solution for the problem made during the War. (though again the context of the rules suggest there was a war that ended in August 1945, yet the backstory makes it seem like there wasn't a war due to tanks being a woman's sport).
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Old 2013-02-21, 16:39   Link #4287
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
*brings popcorn*

Looks like this thread has become interesting again.

The only thing I can contribute is that IIRC Japan had a GDP comparable to Italy during WW2.
Pass over some of that popcorn. This seems likely to be entertaining. Work has been a tad stressful lately. Hopefully this results in pistols (or tanks) at high noon.
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Old 2013-02-21, 16:56   Link #4288
Tak
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
Pass over some of that popcorn.
*Adds caramel to popcorn*

I will definitely need some sugar once I am done.

- Tak
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Old 2013-02-21, 17:02   Link #4289
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*Adds chili sauce to the popcorn*
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Old 2013-02-21, 17:06   Link #4290
Endless Soul
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~steals popcorn, caramel, chili sauce and all, and adds some jalapenos~

Oh yeah, tasty!

Endless "All mine!" Soul
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Old 2013-02-21, 17:11   Link #4291
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guys what happens here

I also want popcorn
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Old 2013-02-21, 17:11   Link #4292
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Soul View Post
~steals popcorn, caramel, chili sauce and all, and adds some jalapenos~

Oh yeah, tasty!

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Old 2013-02-21, 17:13   Link #4293
Tak
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WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO MY POPCORN!!??

- Tak
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Old 2013-02-21, 17:27   Link #4294
Endless Soul
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Originally Posted by Tak View Post
WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO MY POPCORN!!??

- Tak
Once again Dr. Tak, what was once briefly yours, is now....mine!

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Endless "Munch munch" Soul
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Old 2013-02-21, 17:29   Link #4295
Tak
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Originally Posted by Endless Soul View Post
Once again Dr. Tak, what was once briefly yours, is now....mine!
TYRANNY!!

I don't want to invoke the 2nd, but it appears I have no choice!

- Tak
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Old 2013-02-21, 18:28   Link #4296
Ithekro
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I was under the impression that roasted Tiger was bad for you.
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Old 2013-02-22, 06:06   Link #4297
MeisterBabylon
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I was under the impression that the popcorn roasted the Tiger.
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Old 2013-02-22, 12:14   Link #4298
Tak
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I was under the impression that the Tiger ate the popcorn and was then roasted.

- Tak
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Old 2013-02-22, 16:04   Link #4299
Ithekro
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But is Porsche Tiger healthy?
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Old 2013-02-22, 16:05   Link #4300
Endless Soul
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But is Porsche Tiger healthy?
Sure,when taken in moderation.

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