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Old 2013-02-21, 05:12   Link #41
Drkz
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Originally Posted by Hemisphere View Post
Just a recycled character design, most likely.

Spoiler:
Hopefully he still has blood techniques . I didn't know they recycled male characters that badly.
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Old 2013-02-21, 17:10   Link #42
Mahou
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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About Aterial of Origins: Without "derailing" too much, what are actually the conditions for Atori's "route"? On the one hand I found out to get two key items in both human and angle route to unlock the ex dungeon/scenario, yet on the other hand I've read you need the demon route also for some reason (maybe just scene unlocking?). The usual question of which is true, a), b) or both? Seeing that thanks to a helpful comment on vndb, I'd like to avoid the demon route. At worst case, I'll simply use a savefile after the other two routes (ignoring that I'm still in chapter 1 *lol*).

@Eushully: Given I played only Kamidori, Eushully seems to have a rather strange development for charcters or their route. The common example in the respective Kamidori thread is how Melodianna's character progressions is mostly quite superior (romance-wise) than let's say Yuela .
And I refuse to use their romajied name of Syuya when Shuuya sounds so much more natural
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Old 2013-02-21, 18:09   Link #43
Flying Dagger
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Join Date: Dec 2003
You need the scroll of heavens and scroll of earth to form the hourglass which unlocks Dreamland. Since the two scrolls can only be obtained from the angel and human route, the fastest you can get to dreamland would be in run 3.

You do not need to be on the demon route to do dreamland, its just the "most logical" as optimally you would have done Angel and Human already. In fact, the "last quest" for Atori can only be done in the Angel route.

*Remember to synthesize the hourglass before the end of your 2nd route*.

If you are just starting Arterial, I recommend Human>Angel>Angel for you. You get almost every character in the game on the human route, although parts of the route are, imo, harder than the rest (there is an entire chapter where you play as Sayane and her deck really suck).

I translated part of the recommended card list on the wiki, I will get around to finishing that some time, you might want to check it out.

Angel route unlocks Mehisha's skill which lets you level up your cards a lot faster. This happens regardless of which heroine you choose.

While the Imoutoz (ok, maybe not Arisa) might be irresistibly cute, or you too might have an angel fetish, Narumi gives two of the best cards early game: her cost 5 being immune to damage below 10 and her cost 6 destroys high HP targets. In my initial run I was going to do Mirai's route until I realize half my deck is filled with Narumi cards...
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Old 2013-02-21, 18:28   Link #44
Drkz
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I spent most of the game using EX cards. Once you max out on level you don't even need level 1 cards anymore how broken is that hahaha. Dreamland made me mad. Basically you can clear red head in any route while still doing someone else's route.
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Old 2013-02-21, 19:18   Link #45
Flying Dagger
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The duplication mirror/Mirror Image breaks the game in NG+ before access to dreamland which unlocks the cost 6 leaders. Being able to duplicate enemy units wth 2 summon power essentially is like having a 2 power leader.

Ofc, once you unlock the additional leaders a lot of them are broken. Maousama's Leader card (why is it maoosama in game?) has a spell that sends a card (friend or foe) right back to hand... not to mention the +1 control to whole board when used with 2 other Himegari cards allows easy summons of other high cost cards.

Lets not even mention how each Haagenti card gives a -8 attack to almost everything, allowing him to solo the whole enemy deck. Not to mention he can equip the demon bracelet that lets him attack multiple enemies...

Narumi's bathhouse card breaks the game really early on. (Mirai's card is better imo in late game since a lot of the damage becomes overkill, and Mirai's card boosts HP as well but only for her family members).

Cost 1 cards are still good because of their wide variety and relatively more powerful skills. Cost 2s offer the same summoning power with less choices and not as great abilities.
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Old 2013-02-21, 19:50   Link #46
Drkz
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post
The duplication mirror/Mirror Image breaks the game in NG+ before access to dreamland which unlocks the cost 6 leaders. Being able to duplicate enemy units wth 2 summon power essentially is like having a 2 power leader.

Ofc, once you unlock the additional leaders a lot of them are broken. Maousama's Leader card (why is it maoosama in game?) has a spell that sends a card (friend or foe) right back to hand... not to mention the +1 control to whole board when used with 2 other Himegari cards allows easy summons of other high cost cards.

Lets not even mention how each Haagenti card gives a -8 attack to almost everything, allowing him to solo the whole enemy deck. Not to mention he can equip the demon bracelet that lets him attack multiple enemies...

Narumi's bathhouse card breaks the game really early on. (Mirai's card is better imo in late game since a lot of the damage becomes overkill, and Mirai's card boosts HP as well but only for her family members).

Cost 1 cards are still good because of their wide variety and relatively more powerful skills. Cost 2s offer the same summoning power with less choices and not as great abilities.
But I like boss cards... they can self heal. I just hate poison counters... they're so gay.
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Old 2013-02-21, 21:10   Link #47
Flying Dagger
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The self healing cards that comes with the status alignment clr or the mechanic?

I think the heal-every-turn mechanic (in dreamland and arenas) is overly used.

On one hand, it makes HP on cards important, and you can build customized decks with very few cards. But once you get some tanky cards they just become invincible... I had no trouble doing most NG+ content without the OP cards.

Even without heal-per-turn. I often roll with a 20 card deck for general purposes: adding more cards just decrease the chances of getting the ones I want. There are some very OPed R cards (not even SR/EU): the 3 cost angel that gets +1/+1 for every other angel in the field and also +3 atk vs non-angel types comes into mind.


"End game balance" is something Eushully needs to work on a little. While its "just a eroge with gameplay", good endgame with a lot of replay value imo is what keeps people glued to the game. Sadly I think kokakou's engine got other problems to worry about.

There are some good fights in Arterial: such as the monster in the MHI lab. You have to get really tactical in using the right cards and hoping the Leader card doesn't corner itself, lowering your damage potential. Granted, once you beat the fight you get a card that is essential in some other boss fights... dealing 200 damage in 1 attack sounds fair yes?
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Old 2013-02-22, 01:12   Link #48
Darknemo2000
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Stop derailing the thread really. It should be about Madou Koukaku not Aterial.

They updated the blog reacting to the trail reception.

http://www.eukleia.co.jp/eushully/profile.html

Says that they will pretty much add more information because they felt that the lack of proper information in descriptions (units, specials of the characters) caused a lot of mess.

They will also add the 'cancel' button so that the unit would stop its movements. Good but I cannnot understand how retarded one must be to make the game (even trial) without the cancel button to begin with.

Adress archers retardedness so that they do not necessarily go into melee now this much. I hope they will be able to turn and shoot the approaching enemy much better. Said to improve movement speed for both allies and enemies too.

I think they still the need to add a simple 'attack' the enemy option.

Also said that while they wish to please all their technical capabilities so far allow only 1/3 of changes wanted to be adressed now but will work hard.

Last edited by Darknemo2000; 2013-02-22 at 02:02.
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Old 2013-02-22, 08:54   Link #49
Key Board
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I honestly don't like what I see so far of the battle system

It's really hard to tell if I'm wining or losing with you have all these units clustered together in a skirmish.

and yes, it's annoying when archers don't want to do what they are meant to and leeroy jenkins the enemy commander
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Old 2013-02-22, 19:21   Link #50
Flying Dagger
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Sat down and started the trial.
Some first impressions:

- The music is ok. Don't like the menu one much, but the rest is fine. The repeated "YEAHH!!! YEAHH!! YEAHH!!" during battles is somewhat hilarious.

- The very short intro move reminded me of the Age of Empires II intro

- I am a bit of a sucker for continental conflicts

- Control is a lot worse than I thought. A "stop" and an actual "attack" mechanic needs to be implemented. Bonus points if the orientation can be adjusted without moving the army... maybe I just haven't figured out how.

There are hotkeys to change the formation but no hotkeys for unit selection (mouse up/down makes it weird). Got used to it after a while... just have to reissue orders with pauses to make sure my army is heading in the right direction. Not sure if flanking causes additional damage.

- Figured out how to set orientation and kite: direct archers to move in the direction to fire then shift-move to where you want them to move. The ability to semi-ktie enemies makes archers very powerful (I set two armies in defensive formation while archers deal the damage).

- I feel like I cheesed the first battle: after breaking the gates I rushed in the siege unit to destroy the control tower, while my two other armies "accidentally" kited the defenders (due to messy control + AI: the AI was chasing my archers while my swordsmen kept attacking). Archers not being able to shoot diagonally kind of sucks, though being able to change from movement <> range formation on the fly gives them a lot of kiting powers...

- Seem like xp has to do with performance (units killed?) during combat. The siege team received minimal xp as its duty was to break down a wall then a tower... somewhat worried about having to find ways to level that up. In the next two conflict I did not even deploy it as you can only have up to 3 units and I prefer a additional tank to soak up the damage.

- Battle feels easy once I get the hang of it: the depth feels very shallow though... maybe because its the beginning?

- There is a prison in game that holds captive generals hmmm.... I wonder where this is heading in the main game....

- The buildings lack detailed explanation as to what they do beside giving you "more income" (how much?). Other than trying to finish the quest, what is there from stopping me in being an ass and build 10 mines in my town? :O

- The castle looks empty with poor artwork: there are many sharp corners and reused tiles... something i expect from a game 10 years ago. Actually I think the artwork of this game is not as good as Arterial's (somewhat on par with Kamidori).

- There needs to be a resource menu in the main interface for easy viewing.
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Old 2013-02-23, 01:12   Link #51
Hemisphere
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Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post
- The buildings lack detailed explanation as to what they do beside giving you "more income" (how much?). Other than trying to finish the quest, what is there from stopping me in being an ass and build 10 mines in my town? :O
Resources barring, absolutely bloody nothing.

I applaud them for trying something new, but they need to polish it up. That and make the game's story REALLY interesting so it makes up for the lackluster gameplay (sort of the reverse with Kamidori).
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Old 2013-02-23, 09:43   Link #52
Flying Dagger
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I used to have a ton of mines too until I realize I ran out of room to build stuff: so I restarted and built only 1 of each building.

CG Comparison:
Spoiler:


The plain blackground and lack of texture on the armor really stand out.

So far the plot of the trial fail to interest me. Our protagonist is going up against one (and eventually two) famed enemy general and just pretty much brute forced his way into victory. I expect something a lot smarter, such as raiding enemy food stores first to draw out an enemy army and ambush the garrison.
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Old 2013-02-23, 11:59   Link #53
Darknemo2000
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Yeah when you look at CG Aterial looks vastly superior to Madou Koukaku. In fact judging from CHG's alone I would say that Madou Koukaku is at least 10 year old game if not more.

Well when you look in all bits - awful control. low quality CG's and pretty bad textures, with so-so story - Madou Koukaku looks like could be one of the worst of Eushully's yet.

Lol when at the first it was announced poeple were syaing taht it will be the first real sucessor to Sengoku Rance.

But same way is said about all h srpg conquer games each year be in Sengoku Hime or Eiyusenki and they all fail hard.

Madou Koukaku is no exception so far. Just another mediocre title to the genre. Hopefully though, during those two months some sort of miracle will happen and the game will turn out much better than it looks so far.
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Old 2013-02-23, 14:19   Link #54
Flying Dagger
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Found this:


The game has potential, but just not sure if its fixable without a good 3-4 months. Some ideas need to be implemented and some need to be dropped.


Went around this morning and checked out what people say about the game
- A lot of people complain about the control.
- The alchemy part is inaccessible: fused units might be interesting.
- Only being able to deploy 3 units at one time is lacking. This really limits "useful characters". Say, you end up with 20 generals but really only use 6 of them while the rest just sit back and do nothing.
- A limit of 3 characters also takes away the epicness of SLG: you'd expect there to be more than 3 squads of archers defending the parameters of a town.
- the maps are too small: there is not much moving around.
- Lack of attack animation (arrows and magic) sucks.
- The ability gauge is shared by all 3 characters: this once again result in a min-max situation where you just use this one good ability over and over. Ofc, Eushully can try to make unique and meaningful abilities but that is not very likely.
- With limited units there needs to be elements which makes them unique.


Sad thing is that even though the game will prob suck, I will still end up playing it -_-.
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Old 2013-02-23, 19:26   Link #55
Hemisphere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post
So far the plot of the trial fail to interest me. Our protagonist is going up against one (and eventually two) famed enemy general and just pretty much brute forced his way into victory. I expect something a lot smarter, such as raiding enemy food stores first to draw out an enemy army and ambush the garrison.
I was actually expecting something of the sort. After all the introductory exposition, I was thinking "so what's there to stop the surrounding hostile countries from putting up a trade embargo to economically kill them and make it easier for an invasion to occur". But alas.

Also, that image of the hotkeys is included in the trial's RAR.
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Old 2013-02-24, 20:57   Link #56
Flying Dagger
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Originally Posted by Hemisphere View Post
I was actually expecting something of the sort. After all the introductory exposition, I was thinking "so what's there to stop the surrounding hostile countries from putting up a trade embargo to economically kill them and make it easier for an invasion to occur". But alas.

Also, that image of the hotkeys is included in the trial's RAR.
Should have checked the extract folder... I saw nothing of interest in the installed directory and missed it.

Trade embargo is going to be inefficient. Countries of that caliber most likely is self sufficient. Trade embargoes IRL doesn't stop North Korera from setting off nukes underground or launching expensive fireworks rockets that explode.

I am curious if forming alliances with different countries will trigger different events. Eushully makes it sound like diplomacy is in the player's control - but declaring war with a very strong nation may be the stupidest thing to do (maybe not in NG+) thus the player end up having to "play" in a certain order anyway.

Not even Civilization can get diplomacy right... so I don't have much expectations from Eushully in that department. For the most part I expect allies to sit there and ask for help if they are troubled but never come assist you (outside of plot events) in actual combat.

hmmm... maybe I should fire up Civilization...
Reminds me, utawararerumono is not bad for a warfare plot.
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Old 2013-03-17, 05:06   Link #57
Drkz
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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http://www.techgian.jp/official/tg201304/

Seems techgian released some stuff. Link is part of the 18+ parts of the site. You've been warned. Added getchu link for anyone who wants to stare at cgs.

Shuuya why so angry?
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Old 2013-03-17, 06:06   Link #58
Hemisphere
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Speaking of Shuuya (and of male characters in general), the seiyuus are now listed alongside the characters. Time to play "guess the real name behind that alias"!
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Old 2013-03-17, 13:18   Link #59
Drkz
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemisphere View Post
Speaking of Shuuya (and of male characters in general), the seiyuus are now listed alongside the characters. Time to play "guess the real name behind that alias"!
Why do Ba-Bas do most of the ero voice work?! Why?!
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Old 2013-03-19, 02:35   Link #60
Hemisphere
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Sample CG page just opened for Madou Koukaku.

Returning characters confirmed are Haishera and Rekshumi. This puts Madou Koukaku in the time frame between Ikusa Megami 0, Genrin no Kishogun 2, but definitely before VERITA takes place.

Awesome. This might mean that Kishogun Ekria might appear...!
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