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Old 2013-02-21, 18:41   Link #181
Xellos-_^
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Economic Left/Right: -5.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.31
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Old 2013-02-21, 18:45   Link #182
DonQuigleone
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I think the Political Compass is a bit biased. I've never met anyone who scored outside the negatives on both social and economic views.
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Old 2013-02-21, 19:11   Link #183
Demi.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone
I think the Political Compass is a bit biased. I've never met anyone who scored outside the negatives on both social and economic views.
The questions were very slanted towards the left I feel, but I responded the best I could.
Economic Left/Right: 1.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.21
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Old 2013-02-21, 19:12   Link #184
Kudryavka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post

Oh dear, what strategy is that? Then again .. $35k x 12 = $420,000 a year split between 3 people ($140K) doesn't seem like a lot, especially after taxes.. Now if it is scalable ..
Missed a zero (I think). $350,000 x 12 = $4.2 million a year, which is over $1 million for each person. That's a whole lot, even though Uncle Sam's gonna put that nice progressive tax on it.

Engineers make that much??
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Old 2013-02-21, 19:14   Link #185
DonQuigleone
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My question is this:

What are those 3 people actually producing?
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Old 2013-02-21, 19:20   Link #186
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
As a historical note, when one talks of extremes, the Nazi Party is almost always brought up. It would probably be of interest to see what they stood for at the beginning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program
I see racism, xenophobia, suppression of free speech. and the glorification of the state over individual rights under the guise of it working for the people. And they were already trying to get rid of Jews.

Typical collectivist dictatorship that took a nice buzzphrase to sound more innocent. It's not the first time. Won't be the last. There is nothing socialist about National Socialism.
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Old 2013-02-21, 19:27   Link #187
Proto
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Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
I do not have the data at hand, but I remember Itherko mentioned that is no longer true (with the USA economic slump (=high unemployment)+Mexico's economic stability and high pitched USA anti-immigrant fervor, it figures) and we have had for several decades an influx of USA retired citizens (pension, cheaper food/housing/medical treatment+nice climate= win win) and there have been no spike. I will not vouch for the future and say that if there is a massive influx of non-latino USA citizens there will be no backlash, but so far in our history there is no such thing (IMO here there is no racism, there is classism (rich hates poor, poor hates rich, middle class want to be left in peace)).
Our native American population would like a word with you.
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Old 2013-02-21, 19:35   Link #188
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
My question is this:

What are those 3 people actually producing?
money, gobs and gobs of money.
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Old 2013-02-21, 19:44   Link #189
mangamuscle
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Our native American population would like a word with you.
Nope, they would not, they do not have a figure head, an agenda or any real impact in the political life of the country (the EZLN is a laughing stock). So unless you mean a one on one dialogue, I see nothing but leftist demagogy (whose motto is "the native is the property of the leader that works on it") in your statement.
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Old 2013-02-21, 20:05   Link #190
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
money, gobs and gobs of money.
Given that money is actually imaginary, not much then.

I think I'll stick with making cars, thank you very much!

(NOTE: I am not currently employed, but I would love to be employed making cars!)
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Old 2013-02-21, 20:17   Link #191
Kaijo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
Kaijo is Chaotic Good? Intriguing.
I vacillate between Lawful Good and Chaotic Good, depending on situation, actually. :P Wasn't ordinarily gonna respond, since I got the humor and there wasn't much else for me to say, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I'm not sure what's more disheartening - What you wrote here, or Dr. Casey actually thinking it constitutes chaotic good.

There's nothing good about stealing from productive, law-abiding people, many of who work very hard to have what they have and don't deserve to have it taken away from them just because of the existence of poverty. And to basically encourage such theft is the heights of irresponsibility, and can lead to major societal problems down the road if a lot of people follow you up on your encouragement.

So, given what you wrote here, do you think that the laws should be changed so that the US government gives all the basic necessities of life to each and every American citizen? And presumably, that said American citizenship should also be given to each and every person who wants it?

Logically-speaking, that's the only ways laws could be changed to prevent poor people in America from ever feeling it's necessary to steal. Also logically-speaking, you do realize what that will do to America's already burgeoning national debt right?

I sympathize with a poor person who steals to feed oneself and/or one's family, but that's not behavior that should be encouraged. It's a last resort that should be generally discouraged, with every legal avenue thoroughly exhausted before its even considered.
When people are starving, sometimes they don't have time to wait to work through the bureaucratic system. And I'm actually okay with poor, starving people stealing more than just food, since they need money to pull themselves up. I don't think anyone who hasn't been incredibly poor, can really understand what it is like to be that way.

But as for the laws, tell me, if Congress legalized slavery again, would you abide by those laws? Do you think Rosa Parks should have exhausted all avenues of legality before sitting on the bus? Sometimes, you just need to flaunt laws and ignore them. When enough of the populace does so, you nullify the law, or at least draw attention to the problem. And only by drawing attention, can you begin to change things.

If it were up to me, I'd give everyone free health care and a basic living wage. It's actually cheaper to house and feed people, then it is to clean up after crime. So in the long run, society would save money. From there, if you want more, you can work to earn more money.

This chart is handy for seeing exactly what kind of spending-to-benefit the US is currently getting compared to "socialist" countries, and it is telling.

But to help pay for things, I'd raise taxes and cut loopholes. Draw down defense spending. Limit the amount of deductions you could take to $15,000 or so. Limit or remove benefits for those making more than a certain amount per year (say, $100,000). I'd set tariffs for products manufactured in cheap countries and shipped here.

I'd set a minimum tax rate for corporations that they have to pay no matter what, as long as they do business in the US. The only deduction they get, is based on how many US workers they employ; hire more workers, pay less tax. And base the tax on the total amount of money they made, regardless of where they made it. To clarify... if they made $1 million, and that sets their tax rate at $100,000, then that is what they owe. If they pay France $10,000 in taxes and the UK $10,000 in taxes, then they only owe the US $80,000. In this way, they can't escape paying what they owe... only where they would owe it. This would also apply to rich people trying to hide money off shore... I don't care where they earned it, they are going to pay tax on it, so it is either pay the US, or other countries. And no, not worried about rich people or corporations bailing out of the US... they can't, because our market is too important. If they bail, then we have no obligation to protect their IP or products. And rich people will want to live in the US because we give the best protections for the buck. Sure, rich people, move to Belize... where your tax is called a "bribe" in that country and your security isn't guaranteed; just ask MaCafee.
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Old 2013-02-21, 20:19   Link #192
Kudryavka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
money, gobs and gobs of money.
I want their job. Making $1.4 million a year would be more than nice.
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Old 2013-02-21, 20:19   Link #193
mangamuscle
formerly ogon bat
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
The questions were very slanted towards the left I feel, but I responded the best I could.
I do not think it was slanted to the left, the right has move rightward in the USA in recent years so I think it is quite realistic.
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Old 2013-02-21, 20:29   Link #194
Proto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
Nope, they would not, they do not have a figure head, an agenda or any real impact in the political life of the country (the EZLN is a laughing stock). So unless you mean a one on one dialogue, I see nothing but leftist demagogy (whose motto is "the native is the property of the leader that works on it") in your statement.
My comment was meant as a reply to your assertion that there's no racism in Mexico.
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Old 2013-02-21, 20:32   Link #195
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
When people are starving, sometimes they don't have time to wait to work through the bureaucratic system. And I'm actually okay with poor, starving people stealing more than just food, since they need money to pull themselves up. I don't think anyone who hasn't been incredibly poor, can really understand what it is like to be that way.
That doesn't mean it's Ok to steal.


Quote:
But as for the laws, tell me, if Congress legalized slavery again, would you abide by those laws?
Are you really equating laws against stealing with laws in favor of slavery?


Quote:
If it were up to me, I'd give everyone free health care and a basic living wage. It's actually cheaper to house and feed people, then it is to clean up after crime.
I find this a bit hard to believe. You're going to have to crunch some impressive numbers to make me believe this.
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Old 2013-02-21, 20:35   Link #196
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
if there is a massive influx of non-latino USA citizens there will be no backlash, but so far in our history there is no such thing (IMO here there is no racism, there is classism (rich hates poor, poor hates rich, middle class want to be left in peace)).
Irish.

Italians.

These two in particular were subject to anti-immigrant sentiment back in the day. Learn your history, bud.
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Old 2013-02-21, 20:36   Link #197
Kudryavka
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All people who refuse to steal, get stolen from and complain about stealers deserve to be whipped into silence. Let that Robin Hood steal your nest egg gold bars, then he gets his friends to hold you down so he can take a nice brown diarrhea shit on your face, boy! And don't you dare report it to the police or we will whp you then put a spike collar on you so you can't lay down for a week without stabbing yourself in the neck. Yeah!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
Irish.

Italians.

These two in particular were subject to anti-immigrant sentiment back in the day. Learn your history, bud.
He's talking about Mexico, not U.S.

Last edited by Kudryavka; 2013-02-21 at 20:47.
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Old 2013-02-21, 20:41   Link #198
Solace
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
Economic Left/Right: -7.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.15
Gotta love poll sites. Apparently I'm a hardcore left leaning libertarian? Not sure what that means in English.
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Old 2013-02-21, 20:48   Link #199
Bri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Welcome to America. If you haven't saved up at least $100,000, you are nothing but a piece of trash that deserves to be thrown into the dumpster for the crime of getting sick or having an accident, since you most likely can't afford the burial costs. Of course, you deserved it. You weren't born into the right family, or had the wrong skin color. I'm fine though. I was born to parents that worked hard to come here, so I had citizenship to begin with and even now they could help me with my lazy ass. But it's okay. Despite the fact that I have done nothing to earn any of this, I should spill some self righteous vitrol to everyone that wasn't as fortunate enough without knowing who they are.
This message something that get's regurgitated a lot by the modern media and not just in America. "You can improve yourself, you can do anything. But should you fail, everything bad that happens to you is your own fault". It is a message that encourages selfishness and doesn't take account from the differences in the means people have when they start out in life.
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Old 2013-02-21, 20:57   Link #200
Kudryavka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Well, I was accompanying someone to the EMERGENCY WARD and they were made to wait several hours while losing blood. Oh, just put this over it. "Cool Story Bro", and surely when you're losing blood, you want to fill out more papers. People that were hurting just left, because they were made to wait 6-7 hours and nobody gave a damn.

You're just a piece of flesh and a cash register to them. Or maybe a corpse, that will cut into their profits a bit and would require them to write a half hearted apology to your grieving family.
The reason county hospitals suck is because they are way too overwhelmed in customers. Not because they just don't care about you. No matter how bad their service gets, there will always be a huge amount of people lined up and willing to wait for hours to get service because there will always be a lot of poor people, people who can't afford to go to better hospitals. Having so many people to cater to, especially people who are broke but act entitled anyway even though they're not paying directly for service, will tire any employee out.

Obamacare may make this phenomenon less pronounced but there will still be many people who would rather wait for hours at the county hospital than just wither away in a painful death. And no they can't possibly be a cash register because they don't have enough money to even pay, otherwise why would they waste their time at the godawful county hospital when they could go to a better hospital and be treated like a king??

And if you were referring to a private hospital then I don't know what freak hospital you and your friend went to, and tell him to switch to Kaiser Permanente if he can.

Last edited by Kudryavka; 2013-02-21 at 21:17.
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