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Old 2013-02-19, 08:55   Link #381
Gohan78
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
You reminded me of that recent horror film where 5 young people were sacrificed periodically to keep a demon from destroy the world. Two people ended up surviving the attempt to kill them and start having a chat. At that point, the end of the world can still be prevented if the male surviver dies. But the female survivor doesn't care anymore after being hunted by humans trying to murder her.
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." -- Spock, Star Trek II

Quote:
Sasami's mum is lying. Humans are not using the power responsibily, but for personally gain. They never had the right to the power to begin with. She is doing this for the glory of her clan and not for society.
Well, that's your interpretation. Nothing in the show suggests that Juju is doing this for a personal gain or for a twisted sense of revenge. I claim that she genuinely believes that she is sacrificing her daughter's happiness for the good of the world.
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Old 2013-02-19, 09:22   Link #382
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." -- Spock, Star Trek II
But the few have the right to fight back. They might lose, but they are allowed the right to resist. And if the few wins, don't complain that they got what they wanted. It is one thing to kill an animal for it's meat, but it is another to tell the animal to kill itself for you.



Quote:
Well, that's your interpretation. Nothing in the show suggests that Juju is doing this for a personal gain or for a twisted sense of revenge. I claim that she genuinely believes that she is sacrificing her daughter's happiness for the good of the world.
What made you think so? The family lives in the mountains and secretly uses the power for their own ends. They also never had the right to use the power since Tsurugi's grandson died. And at no stage do I sense the people in charge as being any more than cruel and heartless people with no concept of what happiness IS.

The power should have been returned. And the world is ticking along just fine without the shrine. Tsurugi is a far more reasonable person than Sasami's parents, and as such I defer to her judgement on who should be welding the power. Sasami is told to keep it because she hates it. Because she doesn't want to use it.

What is important isn't when to use power, but when NOT to.
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Old 2013-02-19, 12:06   Link #383
erneiz_hyde
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Say, if Tsurugi manifested because Sasami willed it, doesn't it mean that even Amaterasu is susceptible to her own power? But Tama said that Kagami and Sasami's bond of friendship was genuine since they are both Gods, implying she's outside Sasami's influence.
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Old 2013-02-19, 14:45   Link #384
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Say, if Tsurugi manifested because Sasami willed it, doesn't it mean that even Amaterasu is susceptible to her own power? But Tama said that Kagami and Sasami's bond of friendship was genuine since they are both Gods, implying she's outside Sasami's influence.
Tsurugi wasn't influenced. She showed up out of good will, because it is her fault that Sasami is in her predicament. Tsurugi left the shrine alone all this time because she thought no one was being hurt by it. But now that Sasami rebelled Tsurugi decided to do something.
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Old 2013-02-20, 00:02   Link #385
maplehurry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
But the few have the right to fight back. They might lose, but they are allowed the right to resist.
It's evil for them to resist, therefore, they dont have the right to resist.
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Old 2013-02-20, 03:52   Link #386
Gohan78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The power should have been returned. And the world is ticking along just fine without the shrine. Tsurugi is a far more reasonable person than Sasami's parents, and as such I defer to her judgement on who should be welding the power. Sasami is told to keep it because she hates it. Because she doesn't want to use it.
Sasami may not be willing to use the power of the Supreme Deity but we already witnessed what happens when she unconsciously exploits it:
1. The world almost turned to chocolate;
2. 10,000 players were trapped in a shitty online game;
3. Kagami was badly injured by jealous kami.

From a logical viewpoint, unless Amaterasu is willing to take back her powers, the best thing to do is to keep Sasami away from all earthly desires.
Of course Sasami is a likeable protagonist and we want to see her happy. I am merely stating that the Tsukuyomi household does have sound arguments.

As for Juju being genuinely concerned for her daughter's well-being, refer to the first part of the episode when they were casually enjoying some mother-daughter moments. I don't think she was faking but she believes that her duty as a Tsukuyomi priestess comes before her happiness. I can't see Juju as a total monster after that first part.
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Old 2013-02-20, 04:52   Link #387
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplehurry View Post
It's evil for them to resist, therefore, they dont have the right to resist.
No, it is evil for you to kill them to benefit you. They have nothing to gain by dying; you are forcing them to lose something so you can gain it. If you don't have a choice, it mitigates the blame, but that still doesn't make it right, only makes it neutral.

Self sacrifice is noble. Sacrifice by force is just murder. Self sacrifice only applies when it is voluntary. If you kill someone to eat his flesh to survive, that is a choice you have to make and can't tell the other guy to slit his own throat for you.

WHY is self sacrifice noble at all? Because the person didn't have to do it. Because the person made a choice. That's the nobility. Not the pain and suffering, but the voluntary nature of it.
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Old 2013-02-20, 22:14   Link #388
MeisterBabylon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SQA View Post
Sasami's family is named for Tsukiyomi, the "Moon". I don't think you were going for a joke there, along those lines, but I did laugh pretty hard.

Ah, Symphogear never lets us down.
1. That was a fortunate coincidence. But I was talking about Yagami Kagami though. You guys can keep the hikkikomori.

2. Deshou? Especially can you imagine what dakka we'll get if we fused Kagami with Ichi-bal? Its also boosted by HanaKana Deadpan.
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Old 2013-02-21, 12:00   Link #389
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Spoiler for episode 7:
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Old 2013-02-22, 06:33   Link #390
Om Nerabdator
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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this is getting kinda sick....did the mom want her dad to sleep with her child.....this is plain creepy.

Might have to drop this soon
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Old 2013-02-22, 08:02   Link #391
Libros
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Would the crazy mother please proceed to the eastern exit please? There's a cab to Yomi waiting for you.

I'm so glad the woman is gone, I mean, seriously. I hope the next couple episodes are more light hearted/funny with as little as possible foreshadowing. Hell, I don't even give a crap if we get a swimsuit episode for no reason other than: Sasami wants a tan.
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Old 2013-02-22, 09:28   Link #392
MeisterBabylon
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Haven't you guys heard of the Gendou Ikari Plan? This is the reverse of it. Nothing new.
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Old 2013-02-22, 10:39   Link #393
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Om Nerabdator View Post
this is getting kinda sick....did the mom want her dad to sleep with her child.....this is plain creepy.

Might have to drop this soon
Err... Is this the first time you realised there is incest in this anime? They sort of told us in episode 3. Did you miss it?

No, seriously. This isn't news. Sasami is effectively a clone of her mum because they had 80+ generations of incest going on.

And do look up incest in religious texts. They are everywhere, East and West.
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Old 2013-02-22, 11:01   Link #394
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Tama is a lot more powerful than she looks. She is in fact the most powerful of the three sisters despite being the youngest. She made short work of Sasami's mother once she got serious. All she needed was the courage to fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Err... Is this the first time you realised there is incest in this anime? They sort of told us in episode 3. Did you miss it?
We were only told about brother/sister incest, which is less creepy than father/daughter. It hadn't occurred to me they would have to resort to such a thing if the priestess couldn't give birth to a male and a female. Or they could use an uncle, as they initially planned with Sasami. In any case, this family is completely messed up.
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Old 2013-02-22, 11:09   Link #395
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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I don't see how one incest is different from another. As I say, they've been doing it for 80+ generations, genetically it no longer makes a difference who is impregnating who. It is too late to talk about creepiness by now.

And I think I am getting a hang of the theme of this show. The shrine represents all that is old; they tried to keep everything as they were, to do everything the old fashioned way.

Tama is the next generation; young, but full of potential. Not bound by the old rules, and not restricted by what came before her. She looks forward, and is destined to replace the ancient relics of the past.

This is VERY mythologically consistent. The "Tama" of the three treasures of Japan only first existed 1000 years ago, an extremely recent time by mythology standards. Tama represents the future of Japan, not its ancient past. And it is why she is the future successor of the ruling deity of Japan.
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Last edited by Vallen Chaos Valiant; 2013-02-22 at 11:36.
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Old 2013-02-22, 12:04   Link #396
erneiz_hyde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Haven't you guys heard of the Gendou Ikari Plan? This is the reverse of it. Nothing new.
Perhaps you meant Hikaru Genji Plan?
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Old 2013-02-22, 13:54   Link #397
Amoiro Nguyen
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Tama was great while facing Sasami's evil mom. She became my favorite character now. ^_^
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Old 2013-02-22, 14:26   Link #398
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amoiro Nguyen View Post
Tama was great while facing Sasami's evil mom. She became my favorite character now. ^_^
Tama was missunderstood due to her description. An adult woman body with a mind of a child? That sounds like plot for badly written porn. But that's not Tama at all. And the show actually have next to no fanservice of Tama in the show itself.

Tama is a good kid. It just takes a while for our preconceptions to dissipate and see that she isn't meant to be a fetish target.
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Old 2013-02-22, 19:47   Link #399
RRW
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So Tama power is to destroy everything. obviously disadvantage for her is that she cannot use properly.

Knda sad story thought when you mother that you love turn evil and you must kill by yourself leaving those painful beautiful memory

anyway I wonder about Tsurugi "bother" she probably can back at anytime consider she casually changing the mobile signal and sending a packet
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Old 2013-02-22, 19:50   Link #400
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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The sad thing is her mother wasn't evil. It was the JOB that turned her evil. Sasami hates the Shinto Miko duty that turned her kind mum into a monster, and as such made the decision to fight the family for "killing" the mother she remembered.

The family traditions had to end. Because it turned mother against daughter.
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