AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-02-21, 16:45   Link #21
willx
Nyaaan~~
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
So the question is, how effective is 2 weapon fighting outside 1v1 situation?

In small groups?

general melee and mass formation battle?
http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorian...ielding_style/

Basically it was effective for duels - 1v1
And skirmishes / skirmishers - Small groups

As for general melee and mass formation battle? I think this redditor says it best:

Quote:
In a battlefield context, there's no real place for dual wielding. That off-hand would need a shield or would be holding a pike. Don't underestimate the value of the shield: it protects the whole body not only from close aimed strikes, but also from arrows, wild blows, and a whole plethora of things that you can't see coming and against which a second weapon would be pretty much useless. Dual wielding is also pretty silly in the context of formation fighting.
__________________
Nyaaaan~~
willx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 16:55   Link #22
erneiz_hyde
Indifferent
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: InterWebs
How about dual wielding shields then? Perhaps with something pointy attached to it? Was it called the pilebunker?
__________________
erneiz_hyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 17:00   Link #23
kyp275
ZA ZOMBIE!!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere in the EVE cluster...
Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
How about dual wielding shields then? Perhaps with something pointy attached to it? Was it called the pilebunker?
no range, and likely to incur significant mobility/maneuverability issues.
kyp275 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 17:06   Link #24
willx
Nyaaan~~
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Age: 30
Oh, oh, I missed a comment from OP about "concealed weapons" like that from Assassin's Creed. I have a direct response to that (which is awesome) and here it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_knife



The hilarious show "Deadliest Warrior" did a Spetsnaz vs. Green Beret comparison and actually performed "fire tests" of it. It is awesome
__________________
Nyaaaan~~
willx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 18:06   Link #25
Ithekro
Space Battleship
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
no range, and likely to incur significant mobility/maneuverability issues.

Unless you somehow have Captain America type skills with throwing a shield, but then it be difficult to carry two bulky shields into combat. Two small arm shields maybe, but they don't cover much area of your person.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 18:12   Link #26
Kyuu
=^^=
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 42 10' N (Latitude) 87 33' W (Longitude)
Age: 35
For some reason, I am more impressed by the 3-Section Staff:



The impression is summed in one word: Versatility. Short range. Long range. Speed. Power. Single hand. Two hand. This weapon has it all, except any sharp edges.
Kyuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 18:57   Link #27
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
Oh, oh, I missed a comment from OP about "concealed weapons" like that from Assassin's Creed. I have a direct response to that (which is awesome) and here it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_knife



The hilarious show "Deadliest Warrior" did a Spetsnaz vs. Green Beret comparison and actually performed "fire tests" of it. It is awesome
You can make one entirely out of plastic and carry it on a plane.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 19:47   Link #28
mangamuscle
formerly ogon bat
 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Mexico
Age: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
I always use one weapon. My style is basically crushing the opponent's defenses, so someone using two swords would be easier for me to deal with since I either knock one out of their hands or batter their relatively (when compared to myself) weaker grip.
Wouldn't that be a dangerous assertion when fighting a heavier (i.e. western) enemy?
mangamuscle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 20:51   Link #29
Cosmic Eagle
宿命に全てを奪われた少女
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 宿命と時間の巻きに
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
Wouldn't that be a dangerous assertion when fighting a heavier (i.e. western) enemy?
Well it's supposed to be simulated blade combat so technically, any kenjutsu blows that contact the hand should be fatally debilitating in real life
__________________
Cosmic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 21:01   Link #30
ChainLegacy
廉頗
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts, US
Age: 24
I'd rather have a large shield than another sword. If you're physically strong/powerful, you can also use a large shield to rush and pressure your enemy in a one on one situation, or bash them to the ground. In a primitive-arms style of combat, as well, nothing beats spear and shield; powerful and versatile combination.
ChainLegacy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 22:08   Link #31
Ithekro
Space Battleship
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 36
Sword play and fomations is way the American go with gunplay. Shoot them at range, then you don't have to worry about blades and spears.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 22:14   Link #32
ArchmageXin
Master of Coin
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Sword play and fomations is way the American go with gunplay. Shoot them at range, then you don't have to worry about blades and spears.
We are debating ancient warfare here cowboy, put the guns away. Otherwise we should discuss suicide bombers and tactical nuclear weapons.

Edit: Or are you just jealous America may be the only country in the world without a martial weapon tradition? :P
ArchmageXin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 22:55   Link #33
kyp275
ZA ZOMBIE!!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere in the EVE cluster...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
We are debating ancient warfare here cowboy, put the guns away. Otherwise we should discuss suicide bombers and tactical nuclear weapons.

Edit: Or are you just jealous America may be the only country in the world without a martial weapon tradition? :P
the US's "martial weapon" tradition IS the firearm.
kyp275 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-21, 23:28   Link #34
Ithekro
Space Battleship
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 36
Since 1775 anyway, if not earlier under British rule.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-22, 00:42   Link #35
Kyuu
=^^=
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 42 10' N (Latitude) 87 33' W (Longitude)
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
the US's "martial weapon" tradition IS the firearm.
Bullets don't count in this discussion. However, whip out the good ole' bayonet.
Kyuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-22, 01:04   Link #36
kyp275
ZA ZOMBIE!!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere in the EVE cluster...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
Bullets don't count in this discussion. However, whip out the good ole' bayonet.
heh, the bayonet(with rifle) isn't really anything more than a crude and very short spear While more relevant on the battlefield during the time of the muskets, these days if you have to use a bayonet, you're already screwed

Historically speaking, it's no surprise that there's not really any traditional martial arts for the US, the country is simply too new, and having been founded after the advent of firearms, no reason to ever develop one. AFAIK the native tribes stuck with your usual spear/bow etc, basically the practical stuff.
kyp275 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-22, 05:30   Link #37
Masuzu
勝利のため
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: キセキの世代
Dual-wielding, when compared to other styles such as one handed, or two-handed, more so emphasises reaction, spacial awareness, dexterity, and some would even say strength.

Using two hands to hold a sword decreases the number of angles you can swing, however two-handed swords are longer and heavier. One handed can go a couple ways, a shield will emphasise turtling, a buckler does mostly the same except it relies more on speed, while only a sword in hand (ex. Fencing) would make the most use of one's speed.

Ofcourse, compared to a shield or buckler, dual-wielding pales in defense, one can argue that even two-handed, despite the absence of a shield, would fare better as far as blocking/parrying is concerned. However, dual-wielding fares better in defense compared to just a sword in one hand.

To illustrate that, Anakin broke through Ventress' dual-wielding simply by wailing on her repeatedly with power-attacks. Since less strength is applied to each sword, Ventress was unable to defend herself against Anakin's two-handed strikes.

As for offence, the most obvious thing is the psychological impact of seeing your enemy holding two swords. Many would be shaken by the imposing countenance of dual-wielding. We have already said that less strength is applied to each sword and thus dual-wielding is unable to deliver power-attacks like two-handed. A shield can also be used offensively but its offensive power cannot be compared to a sword, otherwise why not just run into battle with two shields. Compared to simply a sword in one hand, dual-wielding allows one to attack from multiple angles in rapid succession.


To conclude this, here are my final rankings, generally speaking.

offense:

- two-handed
- dual wielding
- one-handed (buckler)
- one-handed (shield)
- one handed (just)

defense:

- one-handed (shield)
- two-handed
- one-handed (buckler)
- dual-wielding
- one-handed (just)

Keep in mind that these are qualitative rankings, while qualitative rankings can tell you what is above or below what, only quantitative rankings can tell you how much above or below something is.

Last edited by Masuzu; 2013-02-23 at 09:07.
Masuzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-22, 11:47   Link #38
Cosmic Eagle
宿命に全てを奪われた少女
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 宿命と時間の巻きに
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
heh, the bayonet(with rifle) isn't really anything more than a crude and very short spear While more relevant on the battlefield during the time of the muskets, these days if you have to use a bayonet, you're already screwed
It's good as a close combat knife....Not ideal but not exactly screwed depending on your role
__________________
Cosmic Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-22, 12:01   Link #39
DonQuigleone
Knight Errant
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Historically speaking, it's no surprise that there's not really any traditional martial arts for the US, the country is simply too new, and having been founded after the advent of firearms, no reason to ever develop one. AFAIK the native tribes stuck with your usual spear/bow etc, basically the practical stuff.
There is a martial tradition in the US, it's directly descended from the British one of the 1700s.

US culture didn't suddenly come into existence out of nowhere in 1776. It has as ancient a martial tradition as any European country (in some ways, more ancient, because the US armed forced have existed in some form since ~1776, while most European armies have only been more recently constituted (EG, the German army of today is a separate body from the German army of WW2).
DonQuigleone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-22, 12:06   Link #40
ArchmageXin
Master of Coin
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
There is a martial tradition in the US, it's directly descended from the British one of the 1700s.

US culture didn't suddenly come into existence out of nowhere in 1776. It has as ancient a martial tradition as any European country (in some ways, more ancient, because the US armed forced have existed in some form since ~1776, while most European armies have only been more recently constituted (EG, the German army of today is a separate body from the German army of WW2).
But do they even have anything close to unique? I mean the only time I seen U.S troops carry are Marines with their Sabers. Do they even practice with them?
ArchmageXin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:56.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.