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Old 2013-02-18, 00:05   Link #24121
Requiem-x
The slacking one
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
I was actually quote from Misaka's seiyuu...
Oh, sorry, didn't know. Well, at least the movie won't follow the usual formula that closely.

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Originally Posted by Stufu View Post
haha I can imagine! but hey he's a cool dude. he's got a harem of level 4s and level 5 :P one of the craziest harem in the series
That kind of works against him. His harem is so awesome they completely overshadow him. Touma is crazy enough and has enough cool moments to balance it out, but no such luck for Slave (Not that he doesn't have cool moments, just not enough to counter his girls')
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Old 2013-02-18, 00:07   Link #24122
Stufu
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Originally Posted by Acer View Post
counting still give to recognize it, and that the Index and Mikoto are not in it, it will serve.
haha yeah.. actually, I wanna see the poor Hamazura being glared by Mugino
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Old 2013-02-18, 00:24   Link #24123
Acer
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I think the difficult moment that Hamazura is going to be comparable to a young man who was well known for his virility, but after marriage that lasted several years and the difficulties of a life full of responsibility, he lost it, but that rebounded after finding a lover with half the age of his wife. I believe that soon the Hamazura will also recover what he lost.
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Old 2013-02-18, 00:34   Link #24124
Stufu
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Hamazura has a wife and 2 mistress (and a kid). the only difficulty in his life is he need to survive from his own harem. He is the toughest man alive in the series, he was pursued by one of his yandere mistress since volume 15 and made up with her in the end of the first series. Just getting hit in the groin won't hurt him that much, except his pride I salute you!

What the heck am I saying? whatever LOL
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Old 2013-02-18, 00:38   Link #24125
Requiem-x
The slacking one
 
 
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Originally Posted by Acer View Post
I think the difficult moment that Hamazura is going to be comparable to a young man who was well known for his virility, but after marriage that lasted several years and the difficulties of a life full of responsibility, he lost it, but that rebounded after finding a lover with half the age of his wife.
What are you even saying...?

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Originally Posted by Acer View Post
I believe that soon the Hamazura will also recover what he lost.
This I understand and agree with, if by "what he lost" you mean "the threat of someone trying to off his girlfriend"
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Old 2013-02-18, 00:42   Link #24126
Acer
Death to the infidels!
 
 
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it's just a metaphor.
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Old 2013-02-23, 15:55   Link #24127
J4n1
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Being person who reads books faster than libraries stock them (and being picky about books i read on top of it), i have ended up trying to read To Are Majutsu no Index to satisfy my thirst for written stories.

However, i can't really bring myself to loving it.
I can't really understand why the MC insists on keeping his amnesia a secret, yes, Index would cry, but after first few strange happenings and weird people coming up and just chatting with him, i would have thought it would be clear that this course is pretty suicidal, he needs information he does not have (and often would not have, but he does not know that).
The cosmology/mythology confuses me (why is all magic somehow religious in nature? why do supposedly christian characters use magic of "heathen" faiths? does the writer have a nun fetish?).
Why are the magicians trying to keep people in the dark about the existence of magic?
Why do the magicians hate science? I could understand different faiths, or even different sects of same faith, hating each other, but i don't get the whole hate of technology/science.

Also, what's with the whole Roman Catholic hate?
I don't like religions, and i hate Roman Catholic church for lot of the stuff they have done, but even i can't but go WTF, lay of already, about how Roman Catholics are portrayed in the series.

Ok, going of tangent here.
Anyway, having read to the point where Vento (Femto?) of the Front first appears (early book 13), with all the issues i have with the series, is it worth it to keep reading further or should i just give up?

First books were decent, and i loved the taking down of that alchemist (nothing has really topped that part of the series since really), and there was something really satisfying about taking down Accelerator (hate the guy, and more i read about him, more i hate him).
But after a while they just seem less interesting, so the question is, do they get better? or, more accurately, do they become as good as the early books again?
And does the author ever get over his nun fetish and/or Roman Catholicism hate?
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Old 2013-02-23, 16:04   Link #24128
blackwhite67
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Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post
However, i can't really bring myself to loving it.
I can't really understand why the MC insists on keeping his amnesia a secret, yes, Index would cry, but after first few strange happenings and weird people coming up and just chatting with him, i would have thought it would be clear that this course is pretty suicidal, he needs information he does not have (and often would not have, but he does not know that).

Index crying is a big deal and it shows his strength of character even though he's lost his memories of his character.

The cosmology/mythology confuses me (why is all magic somehow religious in nature? why do supposedly christian characters use magic of "heathen" faiths? does the writer have a nun fetish?).

The magic and spells here are all based on miraculous achievements and rituals performed in religion and mythology.

Why are the magicians trying to keep people in the dark about the existence of magic?

Because then everyone would try to use magic and the thing is they can. You might as well give everyone in the world a gun.

Why do the magicians hate science? I could understand different faiths, or even different sects of same faith, hating each other, but i don't get the whole hate of technology/science.

Obvious. Magicians are basically religious and even in real life science and religion have never gotten along. Do you know how much of an uproar the theory of evolution caused in the last 60 years?

Also, what's with the whole Roman Catholic hate?
I don't like religions, and i hate Roman Catholic church for lot of the stuff they have done, but even i can't but go WTF, lay of already, about how Roman Catholics are portrayed in the series.

But after a while they just seem less interesting, so the question is, do they get better? or, more accurately, do they become as good as the early books again?
And does the author ever get over his nun fetish and/or Roman Catholicism hate?
Whenever there is a religious enemy comprised of fanatical assholes, it's nearly always the Roman Catholic.
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Old 2013-02-23, 16:26   Link #24129
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post
However, i can't really bring myself to loving it.
I can't really understand why the MC insists on keeping his amnesia a secret, yes, Index would cry, but after first few strange happenings and weird people coming up and just chatting with him, i would have thought it would be clear that this course is pretty suicidal, he needs information he does not have (and often would not have, but he does not know that).
The cosmology/mythology confuses me (why is all magic somehow religious in nature? why do supposedly christian characters use magic of "heathen" faiths? does the writer have a nun fetish?).
Why are the magicians trying to keep people in the dark about the existence of magic?
Why do the magicians hate science? I could understand different faiths, or even different sects of same faith, hating each other, but i don't get the whole hate of technology/science.
1) After a while, he sort of gotten used to his Amnesia I suppose, doesn't seem like it affect him much after all.

2) Why is magic related to religion? Where else do you hear crazy stories of people doing supernatural things. And you realized that Christianity isn't very 'original' itself? They have borrowed ideas from other religions before.

3) Do you see any reason to reveal magic to the world?

4) Political differences.


Funny thing is, I'm pretty certain most of these are covered in the books itself, you might wanna slow down on that speed reading...

Quote:
Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post
Also, what's with the whole Roman Catholic hate?
I don't like religions, and i hate Roman Catholic church for lot of the stuff they have done, but even i can't but go WTF, lay of already, about how Roman Catholics are portrayed in the series.
The Pope is actually a decent guy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post
Ok, going of tangent here.
Anyway, having read to the point where Vento (Femto?) of the Front first appears (early book 13), with all the issues i have with the series, is it worth it to keep reading further or should i just give up?

First books were decent, and i loved the taking down of that alchemist (nothing has really topped that part of the series since really), and there was something really satisfying about taking down Accelerator (hate the guy, and more i read about him, more i hate him).
But after a while they just seem less interesting, so the question is, do they get better? or, more accurately, do they become as good as the early books again?
And does the author ever get over his nun fetish and/or Roman Catholicism hate?

Yes.

Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2013-02-23 at 17:57.
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Old 2013-02-23, 21:43   Link #24130
Algent
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If you are at that point you should definitively continue, It get really more interesting to read from around that arc. I think you survived all the really boring arcs.
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Old 2013-02-24, 01:00   Link #24131
desrtsku
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
The Pope is actually a decent guy.
What are you talking about? He's not just decent, he's so GAR one might fall for him.

NOTE :
and now Pope's demission being possible is justified in real life too ...
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Old 2013-02-24, 01:03   Link #24132
J4n1
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Quote:
Index crying is a big deal and it shows his strength of character even though he's lost his memories of his character.
Eh, i guess that's matter of viewpoint, i personally see it as a weakness of character (girl i don't know/can't remember cries = lie to everyone i meet in a near suicidal fashion even if in a life threatening situation).
Quote:
The magic and spells here are all based on miraculous achievements and rituals performed in religion and mythology.
Who came up with them first? Does any old ritual found in mythology work?
From what i understand, there were talented individuals who could do things (espers, saints, whatever, it did not go into specifics), people got jealous and somehow duplicated there powers and called it magic, but it never went into just how did they do this.
Quote:
Because then everyone would try to use magic and the thing is they can. You might as well give everyone in the world a gun.
Now, i'm a big fan of gun control, but i don't think this holds water, everyone might be able to learn magic, but i seriously doubt that merely knowing that magic exists would be enough to plunge the world into chaos, and if you're in a struggle for who controls the world with science, it does not help that nobody even knows you exist (it pretty much gives the science types near total victory by default, or atleast makes everyone not in the secret to be part of the science side).
Quote:
Obvious. Magicians are basically religious and even in real life science and religion have never gotten along. Do you know how much of an uproar the theory of evolution caused in the last 60 years?
Religions tend to have problems with science when science contradicts their teachings, but in TANMI the bloody priests (and nuns) quite happily go doing rituals taken from other faiths that do contradicts their religion as well (which i would have thought would be less of an issue than something like theory of evolution that even Roman Catholic church is quite happy to admit is either true or atleast not a lie/against scripture).
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
Whenever there is a religious enemy comprised of fanatical assholes, it's nearly always the Roman Catholic.
"because everyone else does it" is no excuse.
And personally (and i admit i may be wrong), it feels like even for the usual catholic bashing, this guy seems to go over and beyond the usual fanaticism shown in LN/Anime/Manga
Especially jarring was when they saved the nuns from those ships, and they seemed to have done a total 180 from who they had been, and only real explanation i could come up for it was that i guess i'm supposed to be sympathetic to them now for some reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
1) After a while, he sort of gotten used to his Amnesia I suppose, doesn't seem like it affect him much after all.

2) Why is magic related to religion? Where else do you hear crazy stories of people doing supernatural things. And you realized that Christianity isn't very 'original' itself? They have borrowed ideas from other religions before.

3) Do you see any reason to reveal magic to the world?

4) Political differences.


Funny thing is, I'm pretty certain most of these are covered in the books itself, you might wanna slow down on that speed reading...
1. yes, which is another thing that keeps rubbing me wrong, amnesia should be a pretty huge deal, yet he never seems to get into trouble you'd think someone would (what's my ATM code? what's my phone number? where do i live? how do i gain money? do i go to school? if so, where? do i have family?) i'd have found it lot more interesting (and believable) if author had spent a book or two (or even just some chapters here and there) answering those questions.

2. Christianity is not very original yes, but they do usually wrap all the heathen practices in some kind of bs explanation to make it more christian (ie. christmas).

3. when you seem to be struggling with science over who gets to rule over the world, and keep complaining about all these technological things, it might be advisable to inform people that there are other options (also, it's less about why reveal, and more about why go for all the trouble to actively conceal it).

4. Yes, but why? what? how did it come to be? Personal quibble i admit, but i just feel that for so central a part of the plot, it has not been explained adequately in the first 12 books.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
The Pope is actually a decent guy.
The guy who signed kill order on Touma?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Algent View Post
If you are at that point you should definitively continue, It get really more interesting to read from around that arc. I think you survived all the really boring arcs.
Guess i'll give it another go after i'm done with the Seirei Tsukai no Blade Dance updates.
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Old 2013-02-24, 01:10   Link #24133
Sleep_ping
The Restless FTL
 
 
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Let's put it this way, the story up until the 13th volume is like Midgar, sealed up. Once you survive it, you get access to the world map that lasts until the end of the first series. And when you get to New Testament, it's like getting the Highwind where you have faster access. This story takes time to develop, and honestly, it's not something for the impatient readers who want to start off with something new, because the story doesn't really pick up with 2 seasons of anime. You actually have to wait for a 3rd season.
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Old 2013-02-24, 01:38   Link #24134
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post
1. yes, which is another thing that keeps rubbing me wrong, amnesia should be a pretty huge deal, yet he never seems to get into trouble you'd think someone would (what's my ATM code? what's my phone number? where do i live? how do i gain money? do i go to school? if so, where? do i have family?) i'd have found it lot more interesting (and believable) if author had spent a book or two (or even just some chapters here and there) answering those questions.
Amnesia doesn't affect all of his memories, he wouldn't be completely at a lost of what to do.

Kamijou himself is not the type to hesitate or ponder about his problems, that is to say if nothing can be done about it then he's not going to worry too much about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post
2. Christianity is not very original yes, but they do usually wrap all the heathen practices in some kind of bs explanation to make it more christian (ie. christmas).
Though another thing to remember is that there's a reason why it's call the church of Necessary Evil.

That's pretty much their way of justifying magic- Other churches would have their own special divisions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post
3. when you seem to be struggling with science over who gets to rule over the world, and keep complaining about all these technological things, it might be advisable to inform people that there are other options (also, it's less about why reveal, and more about why go for all the trouble to actively conceal it).
Some people want to rule the world from the shadows.

Revealing magic to the world would draw too much attention to your actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post
4. Yes, but why? what? how did it come to be? Personal quibble i admit, but i just feel that for so central a part of the plot, it has not been explained adequately in the first 12 books.
It's not hard to imagine because it's happening in the real world right now.

With the advancement of science, people are less incline to believe the word of Religion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post
The guy who signed kill order on Touma?
The Pope isn't all-knowing, as far as he's been told, he signed a kill order against the enemy of his faction and the one in the center of all the chaos.

Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2013-02-24 at 02:09.
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Old 2013-02-24, 01:45   Link #24135
desrtsku
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@ Teh_ping-senpai why can't they give the anime a decent budget for the third season? Is ASCII that poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post
Who came up with them first? Does any old ritual found in mythology work?
From what i understand, there were talented individuals who could do things (espers, saints, whatever, it did not go into specifics), people got jealous and somehow duplicated there powers and called it magic, but it never went into just how did they do this.
Nope, they didn't get jealous of saints ... saints are supposed to exist thanks to Christian religion related stuffs. It's only the espers (the main science marmots, also a plot device for their little difference)
How they do this? Does any old ritual found in mythology work?... All of that is explained in a Railgun SS. Just like how an esper alter reality with their mind using formula and calculation, Magic uses "belief" ; anything can work as long as the subject believe in it enough to be able to refine his/her mana ... in fact even a mere urban legend would work.
Who came up with them first? ... who knows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post
Religions tend to have problems with science when science contradicts their teachings, but in TANMI the bloody priests (and nuns) quite happily go doing rituals taken from other faiths that do contradicts their religion as well (which i would have thought would be less of an issue than something like theory of evolution that even Roman Catholic church is quite happy to admit is either true or atleast not a lie/against scripture).
Whether they use something from their religion or not isn't a problem as long as they don't process two contradicting things at the same time when they activate a spell lest they get their blood vessels exploding.
The difference there is between magic side and science side are just merely a USA-USSR like difference, they're basically trying to achieve more or less the same stuffs while maintaining their own policies ... aside from the fact magicians and espers aren't compatible of course.

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Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post
"because everyone else does it" is no excuse.
Nope, it's a legitimate excuse and it's called "cliché"
However you're gravely mistaking if you think RCC is portrayed as anywhere near as "bad guys" in this series.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post
The guy who signed kill order on Touma?
Churchill was a smoking drunkard that approved the sending of millions of Britannic soldiers to their death ... does that make him a monster?

Meh, we shouldn't really do this though, since 75% of what count as plot holes from the previous volumes are covered later.
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Old 2013-02-24, 02:33   Link #24136
Sumeragi
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@ Teh_ping-senpai why can't they give the anime a decent budget for the third season? Is ASCII that poor?
It's not the budget that is the problem, it's the schedule of work that needs to be done first.
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Old 2013-02-24, 02:34   Link #24137
leukrota
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Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post
Now, i'm a big fan of gun control, but i don't think this holds water, everyone might be able to learn magic, but i seriously doubt that merely knowing that magic exists would be enough to plunge the world into chaos, and if you're in a struggle for who controls the world with science, it does not help that nobody even knows you exist (it pretty much gives the science types near total victory by default, or atleast makes everyone not in the secret to be part of the science side).
It's not that simple. In the first place, the biggest practicioners of magic are the churches, but they don't want other people using it, so they do their best to hide it in addition to prosecute anyone using magic that is not affiliated with them (so anyone being open about it becomes a target)

Some unaffiliated groups may not wish to be their target so they are discreet. Others may simply prefer being in the shadows for their own purposes. And others don't really care about whether they are discovered or not, but those don't usually last long . Though not explicitly said (iirc), it's implied that the churches also do damage control to keep any leeks in check.

This doesn't mean the churches are evil (though are some evil people within them), magic can be extremely powerful and dangerous. From their point of view they keep the world safe by controlling the knowledge of magic.

By the way, just to be clear, by churches I mean Christian branches. They are separate powers but have come to an understanding so they don't (normally) attack each other. There's no mention so far about other big religions.
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Old 2013-02-24, 03:01   Link #24138
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Theoretically, if magic did get out then it would triumph over Science to an extent. Why go through the permanent brain alterations of becoming an esper when success can be found easier?

However, it would also give rise to more crimes committed via magic. While lives could be saved by the medical healing of it, an equal amount could be taken by the destructive aspects. In other words, it would be a box cutter: A beneficial tool or a weapon depending on the owner.
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Old 2013-02-24, 03:23   Link #24139
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twi View Post
Theoretically, if magic did get out then it would triumph over Science to an extent. Why go through the permanent brain alterations of becoming an esper when success can be found easier?
Erm no- magic is no way 'easier' than the science curriculum.

If anything it's just as dangerous because one wrong spell, one wrong mixture of magic, and you explode from the inside.
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Old 2013-02-24, 03:35   Link #24140
desrtsku
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Join Date: May 2011
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Originally Posted by Twi View Post
However, it would also give rise to more crimes committed via magic. While lives could be saved by the medical healing of it, an equal amount could be taken by the destructive aspects. In other words, it would be a box cutter: A beneficial tool or a weapon depending on the owner.
HAH! Knowing Kamachi it'll either end up into a dystopia or into a hardcore version of Zashiki warashi's world.


For some reason, the guy's mind has become more and more screwed up and perverted as time goes on ... I felt like reading a non-tragic Saya no Uta with NT6 >.> ... <.<
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