AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Nanoha

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-02-23, 21:48   Link #37561
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filraen View Post
Tabitha will be on alert immediatly because of the killing intent of Louise's four summons.
Not to mention the Flame Snake.


Quote:
she wants to have the pages collected and orders the Wolkenritter that.
And Signum conveniently leaves out the fact that filling pages means collecting cores means attacking other mages?

And Signum is conveniently ignorant of how attacking another student or a teacher of Louise's school could cause a lot of trouble for her master?

To use a colorful metaphor, that's surgically replacing both of Signum's eyes with Idiot Balls. Then doing the same with all of the other Wolkenritter.


Quote:
Which means Louise is, by coinidence, in front row to see later how her knights attack another mage (choose any of the named ones, student or teacher), the Wolkenrittter are in an area full of mages after all; an instinctive order from their Master to "Stop!" is the only reason the knights don't kill that mage
Dead mages don't have linker cores to collect. Of course, maimed and dying mages aren't dead yet, but if Louise is too late to stop the core-harvesting and the victim is still alive, then the Wolkenritter probably didn't inflict much injury.


Quote:
thinking gears are turning with Fouquet: she will think the ultimate humilliation to a noble will be removing their magic, even if temporally
Oh, that's an idea with potential.


Quote:
In another impulsive request Louise asks to see the her own linker core as she still needs some reassurance of being a mage and Shamal complies.
Shamal would first make it very clear that having one's core removed is AGONIZING. I could Louise demanding it anyway, because she's just that insecure and determined.


Quote:
All the Halkgenians are surprised on how bright is Louise's linker core.
To be fair, they'd have no basis for comparison since none of the Wolkenritter would be stupid enough to try taking a core without explaining it to Louise, and Louise would tell them No.

At least until Foquet appears to provide an acceptable target. (Which brings up the point that Louise could hire her familiars out to her majesty the queen as bounty hunters, of a sort. Serving her country while also providing the Wolkenritter what they want, and incidentally making it clear to the world that Louise is a powerful mage, to have a powerful magic-user for a loyal familiar.)

Quote:
That marks the turning point in Louise, when she really starts to care for the Wolkenritter as people which, in turn, makes the Wolkenritter start to develop into the personalities known in the Nanoha canon.
That would be interesting.

Quote:
But just because they are trated as people doesn't mean Louise forget the Wolkenritter are her kinghts, she asks them some way to use their magic style, and so they start ther training.
And thus begin the careers of Drill Sergeant Vita and Martial Arts Instructor Zafira.

Quote:
Somehow I imagine charging cartridges would be a good control excercise for Louise apart from physical training
Seems plausible.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 01:40   Link #37562
bhl88
Otaku Apprentice
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Unseen Horizon
Send a message via MSN to bhl88 Send a message via Yahoo to bhl88
So does she kiss all four?
__________________

Dang it Avalon, you c(XD LOL)-block Shirou and Reinforce, but don't protect his mind in other ways? What is wrong, you woman?
Friendship, be made! Magical power, gather! Starlight Breaker.... this world!
bhl88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 01:53   Link #37563
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post
So does she kiss all four?
Are you asking me, or...?
__________________
Rising Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 02:04   Link #37564
Endscape
The Mage of Four Hearts
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 24
A ZnT/Nanoha crossover? Excellent stuff, I really hope you continue with this, Dragon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Because much as she treats Saito like dirt, at heart Louise is a good girl. Hurting innocent people just for her own gain? The thought wouldn't even cross her mind.

The relationship between Louise and Saito is an exception rather than the rule. Louise has stated, in person, that she sees it as a Noble's duty to protect commoners. Saito just gets whipped all the time because... well... it's Saito. The guy who's as dense as a brick, perverted and a known playboy who goes after other girls even after confessing his love to Louise.

People love to shove the blame for Saito's whipping on Louise, but Saito carries at least half the blame himself.

So what does this mean for the Wolkenritter? Well, for one, their relationship would be quite different by the sheer difference of three of them being girls. Second, this was clearly some magical ritual, not just another "Louise failed at spellcasting because Zero."

And third, and most importantly, Louise summoned a talking wolfman and three mages.

Not a commoner, but mages.

Louise treated Saito like an ordinary commoner because that's what he was in Halk terms. The Wolkenritter are not. They can use magic and are therefore nobility. To treat them like commoners would be the last thing on the mind of someone who was trained from birth to respect and uphold the rules.
I like you, please be my friend.
__________________




Illusion, illusion, this is illusion. It cannot harm me.
Endscape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 02:10   Link #37565
bhl88
Otaku Apprentice
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Unseen Horizon
Send a message via MSN to bhl88 Send a message via Yahoo to bhl88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Are you asking me, or...?
For the maker of the one shot.

So she kisses the Wolkenritter for a contract which doesn't appear?
__________________

Dang it Avalon, you c(XD LOL)-block Shirou and Reinforce, but don't protect his mind in other ways? What is wrong, you woman?
Friendship, be made! Magical power, gather! Starlight Breaker.... this world!
bhl88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 02:12   Link #37566
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post
For the maker of the one shot.

So she kisses the Wolkenritter for a contract which doesn't appear?
Well, she could and it wouldn't work, but Colbert's perceptive enough to know that it was the book she summoned, since that appeared first, so he'd instruct her to kiss that instead.
__________________
Rising Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 05:55   Link #37567
Nanya01
Left for TFF
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Frozen Hell of the North
Age: 31
Send a message via AIM to Nanya01
If Louise was somewhat more like Vita, i could see her going "Bleah! Dusty old book kisses." after she got done.
__________________

My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.
Nanya01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 06:05   Link #37568
mega1987
GregOS Offline
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Philippines
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
If Louise was somewhat more like Vita, i could see her going "Bleah! Dusty old book kisses." after she got done.
*Cue Louise gone into Shana mode and yelled "SHUT UP! SHUT UP! SHUT UP!" at her snickering/commenting classmates*
__________________
Darwin's nominee are best for laughs.
MGLN "Befriending" shows love thru superior firepower (Zenryokou Zenkai!)
Gundams are your worst nightmare in the battlefield.
SRW beats all foes.
JAM Project pwns all!!!

And I can't still make fanfic without restarting from the start when new ideas comes in...
mega1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 07:12   Link #37569
Filraen
Big Damn Lurker
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
And Signum conveniently leaves out the fact that filling pages means collecting cores means attacking other mages?

And Signum is conveniently ignorant of how attacking another student or a teacher of Louise's school could cause a lot of trouble for her master?

To use a colorful metaphor, that's surgically replacing both of Signum's eyes with Idiot Balls. Then doing the same with all of the other Wolkenritter.
The Idiot Ball is on Louise, I admit, but for a different reason: all nobles are mages but not mages are nobles in the ZnT setting. Due to cultural dissonance she doesn't mention that while expecting the Wolks atttacking some magic-capable bastard bandits.


Quote:
Dead mages don't have linker cores to collect. Of course, maimed and dying mages aren't dead yet, but if Louise is too late to stop the core-harvesting and the victim is still alive, then the Wolkenritter probably didn't inflict much injury.
Point. I stand corrected as it works the same.


Quote:
Shamal would first make it very clear that having one's core removed is AGONIZING. I could Louise demanding it anyway, because she's just that insecure and determined.
In that I disagree with you. Sure, it has to hurt, specially when extracted by force but if it was so agonizing Nanoha, Fate would react more at have pain due to have their linker core removed.

Also, they aren't going to extract Louise's linker core, just to expose it. And doing it with care.


Quote:
To be fair, they'd have no basis for comparison since none of the Wolkenritter would be stupid enough to try taking a core without explaining it to Louise, and Louise would tell them No.

At least until Foquet appears to provide an acceptable target. (Which brings up the point that Louise could hire her familiars out to her majesty the queen as bounty hunters, of a sort. Serving her country while also providing the Wolkenritter what they want, and incidentally making it clear to the world that Louise is a powerful mage, to have a powerful magic-user for a loyal familiar.)
I agree the Halkeginians don't have any comparison measure on how bright a linker core should be but I was thinking on the lines of "this isn't just a pretty light, it's far more bright".


You know the funniest thing? My only source of ZnT is fanfiction
Filraen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 09:35   Link #37570
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Are they still innocents when they are soldiers at war against her country?

I'm fairly sure that many of the Book's former master were not monstrous villains. Many of them were members of some nation, and that nation had enemies, and often there was open war. Enemies are acceptable targets during war.
Well, no, you're right there. When the war breaks out, Louise will probably be the first to offer Henrietta her services. Which includes the book.

Of course, that doesn't mean auto bad end. Someone else mentioned dispel, and like it, there could be a variety of ways this story could turn around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Rhyme Dragons used magic and could speak, yet the Halkeneganians hunted them to extinction. Elves are mages, but are considered monsters whose deaths are cause for relief and celebration.

Are the Wolkenritter mages if they insist they are merely tools to be used by their master?

Are they mages if they were created rather than born? If they were, they would immediately reveal this fact to reinforce the idea that they are merely tools.
Sure, if they revealed this to someone with less pure intent. But the people at the academy are all rather tolerant, all things considered. They would treat them like mages, particularely when witnessing their level of skill. And the Wolkenritter have no reason to remind every random person of their status.

Besides, they will only show inferiority towards their master. All of the Wolkenritter are still rather proud knights, and prefer to be called as such. Even Zafira took offense to merely being called a familiar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Even aside from that, I imagine the Wolkenritter rather started inviting their masters to treat them like machines. A perverse way of keeping themselves from feeling hope, and therefore having it broken.

If they convince their masters they are just machines, they can keep on believing that themselves, and they don't have to fear gaining any hope or dignity that can be lost.

An abuse victim daring you to hit her, because she expects you to hit her; expects it so much that she gets nervous when you don't.
I don't agree with that. There's no sign of any of this aside from Signum gently reminding Hayate of their purpose once before dropping it. Heck, Vivid even shows them occasionally being under a less pressing master with Vita telling us that it wasn't always that bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Dead mages don't have linker cores to collect. Of course, maimed and dying mages aren't dead yet, but if Louise is too late to stop the core-harvesting and the victim is still alive, then the Wolkenritter probably didn't inflict much injury.
As long as the core is ripped out before the victim dies, it can be absorbed even after death. Such as when Vita uploaded several cores to the book at once when she was killing beasts.
__________________

Last edited by Keroko; 2013-02-24 at 09:51.
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 11:52   Link #37571
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filraen View Post
The Idiot Ball is on Louise, I admit, but for a different reason: all nobles are mages but not mages are nobles in the ZnT setting. Due to cultural dissonance she doesn't mention that while expecting the Wolks atttacking some magic-capable bastard bandits.
There's no way the knights will just hare off and attack the nearest convenient target without first confirming that there will be no negative repercussions. Unless the target is pre-confirmed to be acceptable by dint of being some kind of criminal.

They can easily intuit that Louise doesn't have the social standing to get away with murder, given the way that her schoolmates and teachers don't bow and scrape at her feet, but rather treat her like any other student.

Quote:
In that I disagree with you. Sure, it has to hurt, specially when extracted by force but if it was so agonizing Nanoha, Fate would react more at have pain due to have their linker core removed.
Fate passed out! That tells me it hurt a lot.

Quote:
Also, they aren't going to extract Louise's linker core, just to expose it. And doing it with care.
You mean like peeling a bandaid off slowly? Sometimes, doing something gently can merely prolong and heighten pain.

Quote:
I agree the Halkeginians don't have any comparison measure on how bright a linker core should be but I was thinking on the lines of "this isn't just a pretty light, it's far more bright".
I didn't contest this.

Quote:
You know the funniest thing? My only source of ZnT is fanfiction
Same here! It's not like the light-novels have been available, I've never seen the manga, and I didn't hear good things about the anime.

I still don't hear good things about the anime... or the franchise in general.

But people have written really cool fanfics with it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Of course, that doesn't mean auto bad end. Someone else mentioned dispel, and like it, there could be a variety of ways this story could turn around.
Conceded.

Quote:
Besides, they will only show inferiority towards their master. All of the Wolkenritter are still rather proud knights, and prefer to be called as such. Even Zafira took offense to merely being called a familiar.
I'm not worried about how other people treat the Wolkenritter. They can look after themselves.

I'm worried about how other people, and rather Louise's upbringing, will influence the degree to which Louise sees the knights as people.

Quote:
I don't agree with that. There's no sign of any of this aside from Signum gently reminding Hayate of their purpose once before dropping it. Heck, Vivid even shows them occasionally being under a less pressing master with Vita telling us that it wasn't always that bad.
Conceded.

Quote:
As long as the core is ripped out before the victim dies, it can be absorbed even after death. Such as when Vita uploaded several cores to the book at once when she was killing beasts.
I did mention "fatally maiming", with victims dying after being harvested.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 12:13   Link #37572
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Same here! It's not like the light-novels have been available,
Actually, they're the most readily available. Baka-tsuki has quite a few translated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
I'm not worried about how other people treat the Wolkenritter. They can look after themselves.

I'm worried about how other people, and rather Louise's upbringing, will influence the degree to which Louise sees the knights as people.
Saito aside, Louise has trouble treating commoners like dirt. A bunch of mages kneeling before her? Louise would panic and tell them to stop bowing, not treat them as something below people.

Remember that the concept of magical constructs is completely alien to Halk. Minus Zafira because, you know, wolf, the Wolkenritter do not appear to be any different from other humans. To Louise, the Wolkenritter are going to be human, and as they can use magic, nobility. The knights may explain they are constructs, but Louise will need time to wrap her head around the idea that there are "people who aren't people" so to speak. And by that time, she'll already have accepted them as people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
I did mention "fatally maiming", with victims dying after being harvested.
Right, just saying that keeping the victim alive isn't required. They can just fight, rip out cores the hard way and upload them to the book after the battle is over.
__________________

Last edited by Keroko; 2013-02-24 at 13:24.
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 12:31   Link #37573
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
I wonder how the Wolkenritter feel about "mage = nobility".

Modern Midchilda is like Germania (oh irony) in that social status is a matter of merit. You can earn any position if you can prove you're qualified (if only by earning enough money to buy a title).

Ancient Belka trained its mages as knights. Nobility and personal magical power might have been tied together and considered paramount in their society.


Speaking of reactions and Germania, it's certain that Kirche will be all over Signum like a much less bloodthirsty Amaterasu. And that Signum will be just as unamused, particularly given Kirche's antagonism of Louise.


Hmm. Vita stopped hating the other knights while under Hayate... How does that work with Louise? Will Vita develop for Louise something like the possibly-romantic loyalty she displayed for Hayate?
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 12:45   Link #37574
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
I wonder how the Wolkenritter feel about "mage = nobility".
They come from an era where, as far as we know, most rules were mages of some sort. Would seem pretty much the norm to them. They'd probably be abit surprised that non-mages can't be nobility "because religion" but the Wolkenritter are nothing if not adaptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Speaking of reactions and Germania, it's certain that Kirche will be all over Signum like a much less bloodthirsty Amaterasu. And that Signum will be just as unamused, particularly given Kirche's antagonism of Louise.
Actually, Kirche has never shown an excessive interest in the same sex that I can recall. She'd probably dive on Zafira first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Hmm. Vita stopped hating the other knights while under Hayate... How does that work with Louise? Will Vita develop for Louise something like the possibly-romantic loyalty she displayed for Hayate?
Put those two side by side and tell me these two can't find common ground. Flat tsundere buddies much?
__________________
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 13:16   Link #37575
Akiyoshi
The Flame Crussader
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Saito aside, Louise has trouble treating commoners like dirt. A bunch of mages kneeling before her? Louise would panic and tell them to stop bowing, not treat them as something below people.

Remember that the concept of magical constructs is completely alien to Halk. Minus Zafira because, you know, wolf, the Wolkenritter do not appear to be any different from other humans. To Louise, the Wolkenritter are going to be human, and as they can use magic, nobility. The knights may explain they are constructs, but Louise will need time to wrap her head around the idea that there are "people who aren't people" so to speak. And by that time, she'll already have accepted them as people.
Interesting theory but i can't recall when i posted the quoted comments xDU
__________________
May 29 2010-2014

...4 yeargo, the day after never would be the same

~The ASFB~
Akiyoshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 13:25   Link #37576
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 26
I feex. Messed up a quote there.

Also, another thing to consider is the magic the knights use. While comparisons can be drawn, it very clearly isn't "Brimir magic." Which means trouble with the more religiously fanatic might be around the corner.
__________________
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 14:11   Link #37577
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Signum, Vita and Shamal could almost get away with passing themselves off as a Fire, Earth and Water/Air mage, respectively...

And Zafira could pretend to be a familiar...

But yeah, they probably blow the possibility of cover out of the water from the beginning.
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 14:14   Link #37578
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
Even then, the magic circles they produce when using magic would be a noticeable oddity by other mages in Halkeginia.
__________________
Rising Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 14:24   Link #37579
Sunder the Gold
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Even then, the magic circles they produce when using magic would be a noticeable oddity by other mages in Halkeginia.
Those only appear for major spells, not for everything they do. Right?
Sunder the Gold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-02-24, 14:25   Link #37580
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
More or less, but the majority of time they do ANY spell, it is a major spell, given how Belkan magic works.
__________________
Rising Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
authorshipping, befriending, fanfiction, interactive fanfiction, nanoha

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:30.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.