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Old 2013-02-24, 12:10   Link #61
Xagzan
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
Actually, I never particularly enjoyed FF X (Tidus is a close second to Vaan, for me, in the race to win worst FF protagonist ever; and while I suppose we'll never have a FF with the quality of voice acting of 12 again, 10's voice acting was not very good, but was largely ignored due to the simple novelty of having any at all). In fact, it heralded much of what's so bad about the franchise today, with corridors, etc. 12, with the exception of the bone-headed decision to make Vaan the main character, rather than Basch, was a step back in the right direction.
Why should Basch have been the main character? It was Ashe's story and struggle, she was the real focus of the tale.
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Old 2013-02-24, 12:17   Link #62
Mahou
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I didn't like FF XII at all. The battle system, where you could "pre-program" actions didn't appeal to me and story and most of the cast wasn't that interesting to me - up to the point of where I played it (I think it was well beyond Raithwall Tomb, though). The only reason I played it was because I purchased it for cheap on ebay

@FF10: From a pal-version point of view, Tidus english VA was horrible, especially that dreaded eardrum-killing laughing scene. Other than this annoyance, I enjoyed FFX for what it was. Yuna and Rikku were cute, Auron was bad@ss and the OST was very nice. The last boss was a joke, but also partly as I only barely trained my summons = low hp for that specific part of the battle.
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Old 2013-02-24, 12:45   Link #63
FlareKnight
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I don't think being the main character of FF12 is something to be fighting over. From my perspective outright the worst FF game ever made. Maybe it did pick up at some point, but wherever I did drop it was completely not worth continuing forward. Didn't like the battle system, story, or characters. I could salvage nothing from that game.

So can agree with the feeling that they haven't anything particularly good since 10. 13 wasn't terrible, but the more games they add onto it just makes it worse overall. Tidus might not have been a great main character, but he fit with the story and how it unfolded.
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Old 2013-02-24, 12:55   Link #64
Flying Dagger
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Yet another remake is stupid: just a cheap way to get more money to go through their financial struggles. IMO FF14 was a lethal mistake: there is already a well established MMO called WoW, along with all sorts of "WoW killers" + the market is shrinking as people get tired of hardcore MMOs.

XII was horrible was well: the story has ended imo and the whole game has very little plot besde an aftermath of what has happened after FFX. The whole dress up game is not appealing to me... having to change dresses mid combat to unlock full potential for the dress is questionable at best.

I think one of FF10's strength lies in the varies minigames packaged into the main game (its a design goal that if you buy FF10 you wouldn't need to play other games).

SquareEnix needs to buckle up and try to capture the essences of what made their past games successful: an engaging story with twists, memorable characters with development, amazing music that remains on people's playlists after a decade, and work on better gameplay.
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Old 2013-02-24, 12:58   Link #65
Sassarai
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
So can agree with the feeling that they haven't anything particularly good since 10. 13 wasn't terrible, but the more games they add onto it just makes it worse overall. Tidus might not have been a great main character, but he fit with the story and how it unfolded.
11 was superb.
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Old 2013-02-24, 13:54   Link #66
sayde
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Originally Posted by Kudryavka View Post
To any experienced FF fans, are there any clear reasons why they don't remake FF7? It seemed like a natural choice to me since the characters are so popular.
Well I can't really blame them for being so hesitant about it. An FFVII remake would likely be the biggest gamble SE could take. I mean not only would it require a huge invest of time and money, but a massive failure of such a project could result in delivering a huge blow to their company's reputation--one that they might never be able to fully recover from. So a lot of stones have to fall into place before the powers that be in SE feel comfortable to give such a project the greenlight.

Anyways, an official answer to this question was provided relatively recently. To sum it up, they're not going to develop an FFVII remake until they can somehow create another FF title that matches or surpasses the quality of FFVII. Apparently Kitase and a few others have acknowledged the fact that FF games (developed by the same team that made 7, 8, X, & 13) over the last few installments haven't quite obtained the same greatness of older titles. I think the last FF game made that didn't completely separate the fan base down the middle was probably FFX.

IMO, FFVII remake didn't have a chance of getting made during this generation in the first place simply because ps3 hardware is very difficult and time consuming to develop for. PS4 on the other hand is supposed to make things a lot easier for the developers. So once the FFXIII team can finally prove to themselves that they can make well received title (by releasing an FF title that actually appeals to the majority), and if the PS4 actually proves to be an easier system for developers to work with, and has achieved a solid userbase by that time, then that'll probably be the best opportunity for an FFVII remake to be made.

Who knows? Maybe Lightning Returns will end up being the title that redeems them. But personally, I'm putting my money on versusXIII.

Last edited by sayde; 2013-02-24 at 14:10.
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Old 2013-02-24, 16:25   Link #67
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
I don't think being the main character of FF12 is something to be fighting over. From my perspective outright the worst FF game ever made. Maybe it did pick up at some point, but wherever I did drop it was completely not worth continuing forward. Didn't like the battle system, story, or characters. I could salvage nothing from that game.

So can agree with the feeling that they haven't anything particularly good since 10. 13 wasn't terrible, but the more games they add onto it just makes it worse overall. Tidus might not have been a great main character, but he fit with the story and how it unfolded.
I stopped playing FF12 at the point in the game when I fought Cid. I got BORED, as I didn't actually care about who is winning the war and what not. Because I didn't care if the characters themselves lived or died.
This was also the last FF game I have purchased.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sayde View Post

Anyways, an official answer to this question was provided relatively recently. To sum it up, they're not going to develop an FFVII remake until they can somehow create another FF title that matches or surpasses the quality of FFVII. Apparently Kitase and a few others have acknowledged the fact that FF games (developed by the same team that made 7, 8, X, & 13) over the last few installments haven't quite obtained the same greatness of older titles. I think the last FF game made that didn't completely separate the fan base down the middle was probably FFX.
My interpretation is that SE currently don't have the means to MAKE a remake of FF7. The company literally couldn't do a game of that size and scope anymore in the current time. And they know it. That's why they said what they said; if they can't make a better original FF then remaking the FF7 would fail anyway.
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Old 2013-02-24, 18:34   Link #68
creb
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Originally Posted by Xagzan View Post
Why should Basch have been the main character? It was Ashe's story and struggle, she was the real focus of the tale.
Because the original story was based on Basch, until they decided their fans wouldn't be able to relate to a middle aged man as the main character, and then they made Vaan and shoehorned him into the story, and removed all aspects from the Basch-centric plot they originally were going with, which is why Vaan is the only FF protagonist ever with zero bearing on the story.

In other matters, I've heard the chatter about how companies simply can not make full featured games like the early FFs, due to the graphics being too time intensive, and I don't believe it. At all. Companies pop up left and right to make MMO worlds with modern graphics. A modern FF would only be different in having a far tighter leveling curve tied to a far more robust plot than the typical MMO.

That said, I also can't fathom how it took SE so long to pump out 13, which probably must have earned a record for most time and money spent for least gaming return. So, maybe the seemingly super-inefficient machine that SE has become (at least in regards to the FF franchise) really isn't capable of it. /shrug

I really don't know what was going through the head of whoever thought up FF 13. It's like they went out of their way to not make a FF game, which is fine, but then you shouldn't call it FF. Names mean something. It's also interesting to see characters get fewer and fewer as we go through each FF 13 game, further showing whoever is in charge doesn't seem to understand the types of things long-standing fans loved about the series.

Anyways, back to X, I'm honestly starting to think of it as vapor ware (the HD version). Unless I'm being far too cynical and they're really re-doing everything. I figured it'd be like any other HD port that should have taken them a few months, at most, to do.
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Old 2013-02-24, 20:21   Link #69
germanturkey
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they should make VI in 3d. love that game to death.
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Old 2013-02-24, 20:55   Link #70
amaterasu4
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Well with PS4 announced it's probably that Versus and the remakes...

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Old 2013-02-24, 21:50   Link #71
Iron Maw
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Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post
Yet another remake is stupid: just a cheap way to get more money to go through their financial struggles. IMO FF14 was a lethal mistake: there is already a well established MMO called WoW, along with all sorts of "WoW killers" + the market is shrinking as people get tired of hardcore MMOs.
This not remake, it's an HD Remaster and "up port" al'a MGS Collection, DMC collection etc. SE is hardly the only one doing this these days and yes the goal to is make extra money and have it available on other platforms. Nothing wrong with that.

FFXIV's creation was definitely not a mistake either, FFXI is Square most profitable FF to date. It has one most non WOW sizable following of any MMORPG both in Japan and abroad. So it getting a sequel isn't surprising.
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Old 2013-02-24, 22:15   Link #72
Sassarai
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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
FFXIV's creation was definitely not a mistake either, FFXI is Square most profitable FF to date. It has one most non WOW sizable following of any MMORPG both in Japan and abroad. So it getting a sequel isn't surprising.
FFXIV is not a sequel to FFXI unfornatuely
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Old 2013-02-24, 22:22   Link #73
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
Because the original story was based on Basch, until they decided their fans wouldn't be able to relate to a middle aged man as the main character, and then they made Vaan and shoehorned him into the story, and removed all aspects from the Basch-centric plot they originally were going with, which is why Vaan is the only FF protagonist ever with zero bearing on the story.
This is untrue, by the way.
Vaan was intended to be the player character from early on in development, but he certainly isn't the main character even in the final game. Basch and Ashe share that role.
XII is admittedly unfinished and I can understand why some dislike it as the story is the opposite of character-focused, but please stop spreading this bullshit about "what could have been".
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That said, I also can't fathom how it took SE so long to pump out 13, which probably must have earned a record for most time and money spent for least gaming return.
From what I've heard half the people working on it had no idea what they were supposed to be doing, so the art team just churned out material for literally years, much of which was never used.
Square-Enix adopting Western production techniques and standards is a good thing, if development is always this much of a clusterfuck.
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Old 2013-02-24, 22:24   Link #74
amaterasu4
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Here it is the article explaining the change of protagonists from FF12 in French but this really going off topic.
http://www.ffring.com/articles/diver...ntasy-XII.html
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Old 2013-02-24, 22:37   Link #75
Dark Wing
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Well I'll be picking this HD version up since I no longer own the original. Also heres hoping they tweak the Blitz Ball mini-game so matches aren't completely one sided.

I personally loved all the FF games for various different reasons with my personal favorites being 7 on the PSX and 12 on the PS2. Now don't get me wrong I thought 10 and 10-2 were alright however I always felt they lacked in the exploration department unlike 12 where I had so much more to do.
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Old 2013-02-24, 22:54   Link #76
amaterasu4
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I hope they fix the Chocobo racing at least. I have bad memories trying to get Tidus' Ultimate Weapon since the minigame was broken as hell.
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Old 2013-02-24, 23:07   Link #77
Iron Maw
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Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
FFXIV is not a sequel to FFXI unfornatuely
Yes, FFXIV 1.0 was ...quite a mess to put mildly. Thankfully 2.0 is looking really good last time I checked up on the game.

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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
This is untrue, by the way.
Vaan was intended to be the player character from early on in development, but he certainly isn't the main character even in the final game. Basch and Ashe share that role.
XII is admittedly unfinished and I can understand why some dislike it as the story is the opposite of character-focused, but please stop spreading this bullshit about "what could have been".
This is correct, IIRC there's an old 1UP interview during the period when FFXII was first unveiled with some of the staff most notably Akihiko Yoshida (Matsuno's go to guy for character design). Now for whatever reason this interview is either misinterpreted or isn't well known, but Yoshida actually confirmed that Vaan was always part of the game, his appearance was different (more rugged), but he wasn't shoehorned by the marketing staff. The decision to make him younger was the dev's team.

And frankly Vaan's age shouldn't have any bearing in a Matsuno game of all things. People seem to forget that two his most widely acclaimed works FFT and Tactics Ogre both starred teenage protagonists. It didn't make those stories any less compelling so why should it be a problem or excuse for whatever failings FFXII's plot had? It's one of the most irritating things about FFXII discussions.

But yeah this getting quite off topic.

Last edited by Iron Maw; 2013-02-24 at 23:26.
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Old 2013-02-25, 00:23   Link #78
ZGoten
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Originally Posted by Mahou View Post
Tidus english VA was horrible, especially that dreaded eardrum-killing laughing scene.
I just don't understand why so many people keep picking on this particular scene. The only reason I can think of is that they just don't understand it or that they don't want to, just so they can say something about it. I mean really, the whole point of the scene was to teach Yuna how to laugh. Tidus isn't really laughing. It's a forced expression of emotion, because he's showing how it's supposedly done. That's why it sounds so awkward and unreal. Tidus is a terrible actor. That's part of the joke, and the voice actors of both Yuna and Tidus conveyed that point just fine.
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Old 2013-02-25, 01:40   Link #79
Kaisos Erranon
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I just don't understand why so many people keep picking on this particular scene. The only reason I can think of is that they just don't understand it or that they don't want to, just so they can say something about it.
Yeah, it's something that's ridiculous and thus easy to pick at, much like Vaan's "I'm Captain Basch" sequence. It's just a way of insulting the game without actually putting real effort into doing so.
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I mean really, the whole point of the scene was to teach Yuna how to laugh. Tidus isn't really laughing. It's a forced expression of emotion, because he's showing how it's supposedly done. That's why it sounds so awkward and unreal. Tidus is a terrible actor. That's part of the joke, and the voice actors of both Yuna and Tidus conveyed that point just fine.
And if anyone bothers to argue with that statement, here's some evidence in support.
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Old 2013-02-25, 09:55   Link #80
amaterasu4
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There is a previous scene in which Tidus and Yuna laugh for real and it sounded very natural since it wasn't forced. Still I think Tidus and Yuna's actors had a difficult time back in 2001 since they had lots of dialogues and while Taylor couldn't keep a constant tone Budress sounded too bored. I hope the HD redubs the game considering the actors improved a lot in Dissidia.
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