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View Poll Results: Psycho-Pass - Episode 17 Rating
Perfect 10 44 51.16%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 22 25.58%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 12.79%
7 out of 10 : Good 6 6.98%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.16%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.16%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 1.16%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2013-02-23, 21:41   Link #281
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
Except that her empathy isn't mindless, eg. explained why they shouldn't be pointing the gun at the rape victim.
Masaoka's explanation on Akane's hue (ep 13): "She accepts things as they are. She forgives society, acknowledges it, and accepts it."
Sounds like an outside view, in my opinion.
Context is important.

What's "mindless empathy" for a regular person is NOT the same as "mindless empathy" for a serial killer turned delusional god ruling over a society. Touma very likely does consider all emotional feelings to be mindless from his perspective.

The fact that the Sybil is willing to risk so many peoples lives just to bring Makishima in hardly seems a good indicator for the collective possessing empathy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
There's a huge assumption by a few posters who think all the brains were criminals prior to being in put into the "system", therefore is the only way to be noticed.
Considering they're running the society means that some government heads is most likely in the system already and maybe even the scientists themselves, unless you consider them all criminals too.
At this point we don't know how the Sybil system was initially conceived or founded, or the circumstances behind it.

All we know for sure is that Touma was really implying that you have to be an asymptomatic criminals in order to be a sybil candidate. And considering that no means have been brought up in terms of identifying or tracking Asymptomatics despite how useful it would be in capturing Makishima (which Sybil WANTs to have happens) aside from an old fashioned police investigation, I don't think they have clinical manners to ID asymptomatic criminals from the general populace.

At which point, the only explanation we have as to where new Sybil brains comes from is from Asymptomatic criminals who get brought in. And considering the escalatingly villainous behavior on Sybils part, I doubt we're gonna get any tear jerkers about how it's really actually quite nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
apurvis99 is incorrect in that her psycho-pass never increases, since it did when they had to fish out Makishima's face from her memory, but the fact that she never went passed latent criminal status (when it should have) and the value rapidly decreased after being slapped back into sense, it's clear Sibyl wasn't comprehending her.
Except that isn't clear at all. Low crime coefficient could be characterized by someone who had natural mental resilience/elasticity to trauma, as well as them being criminally asymptomatic. Considering how rare being criminally Asymptomatic is (one in a couple million?), there are going to be thousands of people who just happen to be well adjusted enough to appear identical to an Asymptomatic criminal, even under stressful situations. It's just not a useful detection method.


Mind. This isn't to say that Akane might not be Criminally Asymptomatic. Though if she WAS, I'd frankly argue that means the Sybil brains have a limited understanding of the condition.
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Old 2013-02-24, 00:05   Link #282
Quadratic
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
That's not a "huge assumption". That's a reasonable default position given what we know right now. As of right now, we only know of one way for a person to get noticed by the Sibyl collective - Be a criminal that doesn't give off a latent criminal reading.
I'm not arguing about the circumstances now, merely the assumption that all the brains are criminals on basis that their readings were zero or whatever...despite Sibyl not being in existance when creating the initial members.
It's more pausible that they all were like Senguji, and only became criminals afterwards.
Having said that, Akane is in a unique position to be noticed by Sibyl because the circumstances surrounding her eg. Gino's report and relationship with Makishima and Kogami, records of the memory scoop.

Also, what about the "promotion" that Sibyl keeps stringing Gino along? Perhaps that is the other way to join in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Context is important.

What's "mindless empathy" for a regular person is NOT the same as "mindless empathy" for a serial killer turned delusional god ruling over a society. Touma very likely does consider all emotional feelings to be mindless from his perspective.

The fact that the Sybil is willing to risk so many peoples lives just to bring Makishima in hardly seems a good indicator for the collective possessing empathy.
At this point we don't know how the Sybil system was initially conceived or founded, or the circumstances behind it.
Fair point on that example, but while Sibyl may consider it mindless empathy for defending the rape victim but that only further drives Akane's unique ideology (and it is unique since no one thinks that way under the current system anymore), and in Akane's mind it isn't mindless because it isn't justice (whether Sibyl understands that that's how Akane is thinking is debatable).

As for the Makishima situation, them caring about the lives of "sheeps" instead of obtaining greater knowledge would be mindless empathy.
Knowledge, which in their "minds", helps them transcend (further) them beyond what a single individual can achieve.
One could argue that Sibyl/the collective brains empathized with Touma being unique in his way of thinking and him being lonely because of this, and they accepted Touma despite his crimes, because his intellect is more valuable than the crimes he committed.
In any case, they used the words "aimless empathy", not "no empathy" so someone like Akane can fit the criteria.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Except that isn't clear at all. Low crime coefficient could be characterized by someone who had natural mental resilience/elasticity to trauma, as well as them being criminally asymptomatic. Considering how rare being criminally Asymptomatic is (one in a couple million?), there are going to be thousands of people who just happen to be well adjusted enough to appear identical to an Asymptomatic criminal, even under stressful situations. It's just not a useful detection method.
Shion and Gino clearly explained the typical behavior of the memory scoop, and Akane did not follow the expected scenario.
If they expected it to be a natural resistance, then it wouldn't explain why Gino still went and asked his father why Akane can keep her hue low, because he doesn't seem to accept that as an answer.
From a story perspective, there have been many signs of her low CC which fit the criteria of what Sibyl is looking for.
eg.
She did not kill Makishima (ie. did not let her emotions get in the way).
Thoughlessly talked about her job/life to her friends and Kagari, despite them being in a crapper situation (ie. no mindless empathy).
I'm not going to bring in any ep 18 examples since that'd be spoilers (though saying this is probably a spoiler in itself? :S ), though there are also many more examples in the previous episodes, as well, which I'm too lazy to write out.
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Old 2013-02-24, 02:01   Link #283
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R;4566610Imagine the following scenario: Makishima has Ko at his mercy. Akane picked up an old-fashioned handgun that Ko was carrying before it was knocked out of his hands by Makishima. Makishima mocks Akane again, this time threatening [I
Ko's[/I] life. Akane either shoots and kills Makishima with an old-fashioned handgun, or Ko dies. This time, Akane takes the shot. Akane kills Makishima. Her Psycho-Pass reading doesn't go up. Now she becomes interesting to Sibyl.
That would just be the system being blind to Akane's lifestyle. If she was offered to join Sibyl she WILL destroy it. The fact that the system can't tell the difference of someone who works for the righteous from someone who is apathetic, is their own problem.

People like Akane are what we need in government. But the political system in the story is directly incompatible with people like her. No one is above the law, even law enforcers. That's Akane's view. And as such Sybil with its permanent attitude of being above the law simply can't co-exist with her. One of them has to die, one way or another. I hope Akane lives.
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Old 2013-02-24, 22:09   Link #284
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
That would just be the system being blind to Akane's lifestyle. If she was offered to join Sibyl she WILL destroy it. The fact that the system can't tell the difference of someone who works for the righteous from someone who is apathetic, is their own problem.
This.

Really. Short of brainwashing, somebody like akane simply incompatible with the Sybil leadership system. She'd do nothing but stand in constant opposition to the other members.
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Old 2013-03-04, 02:22   Link #285
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Words words words words words words words words words
Words words words words words words words words words
Words words words words words words words words words
Words words words words words words words words words
Words words words words words words words words words
Is it just me or are conversations with Makishima in them the worst things?

Anyways, it seems that the secrets in Psycho-Pass are much less interesting than I imagined from the last episode. Why do the creators still want to make Makishima the main antagonist? These developments just serve to remind me of better shows and films. Blech.
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Old 2013-03-04, 18:24   Link #286
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Is it just me or are conversations with Makishima in them the worst things?

Anyways, it seems that the secrets in Psycho-Pass are much less interesting than I imagined from the last episode. Why do the creators still want to make Makishima the main antagonist? These developments just serve to remind me of better shows and films. Blech.
Makishima is just an ordinary serial killer. In a modern society and governing system he would have been caught long ago. What keeps him going isn't any supernatural ability, but the massive weakness of the inflexible government system and society that have become incapable of dealing with real threats.

Catching or killing Makishima solves nothing. People like him have always existed and always will exist in the future. The point isn't about having a villain to kill, but showing how regressed the artificial and self-contained dystopia has become.

Makishima is not the disease, but the symptom. His ability to run rampant is just a side effect of a government that doesn't work properly.
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Old 2013-03-04, 19:30   Link #287
4Tran
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I agree with all of your points. Aside from Kougami and the Sibyl System, nobody really cares about Makishima. Sure they'd love to pin his crimes on him, but it doesn't really go all that much further than that. Akane has personal reasons to get him, but even that got closure when she socked him. I thought that Makishima's arc and character potential was all wrapped up when he got captured, so I was really surprised and disappointed that the show still wanted to set him up as the main antagonist.

It's all the worse since we had a clear opportunity to shake things up. The cast would then have to shift their attentions on the problems of the Sibyl System and all of the ramifications that would entail. Instead, we revert back to the status quo.
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Old 2013-03-04, 19:34   Link #288
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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I am sure the story will drag us back to the issue of Sybil evidentially. I like to think many of the characters try to focus on Makishima in order to avoid the issue of Sybil; like, if they just catch him they can start to pretend their system of government would then be perfect again. Like some massive denial.
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Old 2013-03-04, 22:22   Link #289
4Tran
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I am sure the story will drag us back to the issue of Sybil evidentially. I like to think many of the characters try to focus on Makishima in order to avoid the issue of Sybil; like, if they just catch him they can start to pretend their system of government would then be perfect again. Like some massive denial.
I hope that Makishima is going to get dropped, but I think that the creators actually want us to take him as a major antagonist.

The problem with that idea of using Makishima as an excuse is that none of the characters have put any actual effort into thinking about him or looking into ways of capturing him. Instead, it's all been about trying to bring Kougami into the team, worrying about what will happen to Kougami, fighting against the constraints set on the team, and the like.
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Old 2013-03-17, 19:11   Link #290
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Tehe, the government is run behind the scenes by megalomaniac sociopaths who wish to impose their ego on all, at the sacrifice of human lives and call it justice. Nothing new. :3

It was pretty obvious they wanted Makishima's brain. But they were pretty stupid to think they had him in their clutches so easily. Makishima clearly needs a Batman to stop him.
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