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Old 2013-02-24, 03:29   Link #26681
Sugetsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Only out of fear. Fear of shame (honor-driven cultures) and fear of posthumous punishment (religion).

What sort of person are you when you're alone in the dark? I would have only returned such an item if there was a reward--otherwise I would have fenced it without hesitation.

The fear of not being able to afford to pay rent or buy groceries is a bit stronger than the fear of Bronze Age fairy tales about a bearded man in the sky.
I agree with almost everything you said, but remember, there ARE people out there who would return a diamond ring to his owner and would even do it quietly if they could as to not attract attention to themselves. Those people of course are very rare and have been brought up with a special code of conduct, such as a Shaolin monk for instance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I wonder how many people have never gone hungry and yet wouldn't have returned it?


All it means, as far as I can see, is that crime is (relatively) low at best, and massively underreported at worst. Remember that rape/murder scandal a few weeks back in India, precisely? Where were that honor and piety then?

Of course, I never said that just because a nation is influenced by strong codes of morality does not mean no one would ever commit a crime. I even bet you can find some Shaolin Monks who are total creeps or child molesters; just an unfounded example but one none the less.
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Old 2013-02-24, 03:38   Link #26682
Ithekro
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Relativley speaking, there are few Shaolin Monks in those countries, much less in the world.
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Old 2013-02-24, 06:16   Link #26683
ganbaru
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Insight: Spiral of Karachi killings widens Pakistan's sectarian divide
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...91N00G20130224
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Old 2013-02-24, 08:56   Link #26684
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
Of course, I never said that just because a nation is influenced by strong codes of morality does not mean no one would ever commit a crime. I even bet you can find some Shaolin Monks who are total creeps or child molesters; just an unfounded example but one none the less.
That wasn't my point. You see, for all those "strong religious principles", you could climb into a random bus, and see half a dozen guys who don't know each other, and get them all to agree to rape a random woman. Like, just take the next couple that climbs on, don't say a word, kick the ass of the guy and start raping the woman, and instead of stopping you, they'll join you. In the end, they - and I don't want to specifically target the Indians here - only pay lip service to the concepts of "honor" and and "faith".

The case in question was a slight outlier in brutality, but it was more a case of straw breaking a camel's back than something truly unheard of.

That's my point: just because a country say it's honorable and pious, just because its inhabitants go to mass or temple or whatever, it doesn't mean they're especially more trustworthy as anywhere else. Conversely, just because a country is secular and, shall we say, modern, doesn't mean its people aren't honest and kind.
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Old 2013-02-24, 09:11   Link #26685
DonQuigleone
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Let's examine the dear old country of Ireland, until recently the most Catholic country in the world. Our country was the very picture of piety, everyone went to mass every week, and our priests were all esteemed citizens.

Turns out, priests were molesting children, and the Church hierarchy, oh so honourable and pious, just hushed the whole thing up. If a priest molested children, they'd just bundle him off to another parish...
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Old 2013-02-24, 09:31   Link #26686
kyp275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
Any country whose environment is heavily influenced by religion or sense of honor would qualify.
Japan or India would be good examples.
Gotta say, you picked some pretty terrible examples Naturally, there are good people everywhere, but there are also terrible people everywhere, with the vast majority being somewhere in between, regardless of religion or societal concept of "honor", which is not always good. Case in point, those so-called "honor killings" are certainly far from what most would consider honorable or good.

And to add to Don's example (just saw this recently on the news), the Catholic-run Magdalene Laundries in Ireland, a supposed haven for abused/poor women etc, ended up being little than a slave camp with rampant physical and mental abuse.
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Old 2013-02-24, 11:43   Link #26687
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
And to add to Don's example (just saw this recently on the news), the Catholic-run Magdalene Laundries in Ireland, a supposed haven for abused/poor women etc, ended up being little than a slave camp with rampant physical and mental abuse.
Of course, we can't be having children raised by these loose women!

If these women are to be virtuous again, penance is necessary! Only then can you appreciate the example set by our holy mother...
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Old 2013-02-24, 11:44   Link #26688
Sugetsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Gotta say, you picked some pretty terrible examples
Actually no... There was little looting and social unrest during Japan's 2011 earthquake for example. Do I claim that there is no theft and corruption in that country? Of course not, but human beings are products of their environments. The culture in Japan reinforces a taboo against theft and other "dishonorable" practices.
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Old 2013-02-24, 14:06   Link #26689
kyp275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
Actually no... There was little looting and social unrest during Japan's 2011 earthquake for example. Do I claim that there is no theft and corruption in that country? Of course not, but human beings are products of their environments. The culture in Japan reinforces a taboo against theft and other "dishonorable" practices.
That was indeed admirable, but that's simply one facet of Japanese society, there are much less...virtuous side of it as well, which brings us back to the original point, which is that all human societies can be, and generally ends up being, pretty terrible at one point or another.
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Old 2013-02-24, 14:35   Link #26690
Sumeragi
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About the whole "morality" thing: People always say the present was worse than the past. nothing new there.
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Old 2013-02-24, 16:01   Link #26691
DonQuigleone
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I actually think the present is a lot better then the past, morality wise.

Point me to a single point in history where things were "better" and I can give you a dozen reasons why things were worse.
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Old 2013-02-24, 16:19   Link #26692
kyp275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I actually think the present is a lot better then the past, morality wise.

Point me to a single point in history where things were "better" and I can give you a dozen reasons why things were worse.
When KyoAni was still making FMP anime?



But yea, as a whole, I do believe humanity has become more tolerant in the modern age.
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Old 2013-02-24, 16:23   Link #26693
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
About the whole "morality" thing: People always say the present was worse than the past. nothing new there.
That is because they were once children and given more leeway, or they were better looking when they are younger and thus more attractive.

10 years down the road, and you might probably say the same thing because you were not as young and wanted as before. When things change from a personal perspective, it takes time for people to adjust to it.

Others it takes some form of "enlightenment". The question is when it will come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
But yea, as a whole, I do believe humanity has become more tolerant in the modern age.
The pragmatist in me says that it is apathy, not tolerance. Otherwise people would be more willing to embrace ideas like LGBT and not ignore or shun them silently.

Such rejection often has their own reasons - if we are to wholly tolerate public display of affection between males, we would have dirty-minded and perverted rotten girls running amok in society encouraging the defiling of innocence of their own peers. Then where would purity go?
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Old 2013-02-24, 16:26   Link #26694
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I actually think the present is a lot better then the past, morality wise.

Point me to a single point in history where things were "better" and I can give you a dozen reasons why things were worse.
Regardless of what individuals actually think (your mileage may vary), I'm just focusing on the general tendency to say that the past has better morals.

Furthermore, when I am cynical, I can easily argue that the "tolerance" of today is just another form of immorality that uses a mask to hide its true nature. That's how flimsy the entire "when a period was moral" discussion is.
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Old 2013-02-24, 23:06   Link #26695
Solace
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Hey guys, guess what!? I just cleaned out thirty posts of stupid arguing! It was fantastic! I love dealing with this kind of stuff! Please, do it more!

On second thought, don't. And knock off the attitudes. You all fail at it.

Thread opened.
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Old 2013-02-24, 23:10   Link #26696
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Hey guys, guess what!? I just cleaned out thirty posts of stupid arguing! It was fantastic! I love dealing with this kind of stuff! Please, do it more!

On second thought, don't. And knock off the attitudes. You all fail at it.

Thread opened.
I would recommend the establishment to set up requirements for participation in any mature thread.
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Old 2013-02-24, 23:14   Link #26697
Sumeragi
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Park Geun-hye sworn in as South Korea president

Quote:
Park Geun-hye promised a tough stance on national security and an era of economic revival as she was sworn in as South Korea's president.

Ms Park, who defeated liberal rival Moon Jae-in in December's general election, took the oath of office in front of tens of thousands of people.

North Korea's recent nuclear test posed a "challenge to the survival" of the Korean people, she said.

Trust-building was needed to tackle the "extremely serious" security situation.

Ms Park, the first woman to lead South Korea, succeeds President Lee Myung-bak, of the same Saenuri Party, who stepped down as the law required after a five-year term.

The 61-year-old is the daughter of former military strongman Park Chung-hee, who ruled South Korea for almost two decades.

She takes office amid high tensions on the Korean peninsula in the wake of North Korea's third nuclear test, on 12 February.

'Step-by-step engagement'

In her inauguration speech, Ms Park said she would "not tolerate any action that threatens the lives of our people and the security of our nation".

"North Korea's recent nuclear test is a challenge to the survival and future of the Korean people, and there should be no mistake that the biggest victim will be none other than North Korea itself."

Calling on North Korea to abandon its nuclear ambitions, she said that in a challenging security environment South Korea could not "afford to remain where we are".

A trust-building process was needed, she said, promising to move forward "step-by-step on the basis of credible deterrence".

"Trust can be built through dialogue and by honouring promises that have already been made. It is my hope that North Korea will abide by international norms and make the right choice so that the trust-building process on the Korean Peninsula can move forward," she said.

On the economy, Ms Park promised more focus on a "creative economy" founded in "economic democratisation" that would expand beyond the traditional manufacturing sector.

Policies would be brought in to help small and medium-sized enterprises flourish, she said.

"By rooting out various unfair practices and rectifying the misguided habits of the past... we will provide active support to ensure that everyone can live up to their fullest potential," she added, in an apparent nod to resentment towards the country's giant "chaebol" conglomerates.

And Ms Park also promised a "clean, transparent and competent government".

"I will endeavour to shed popular distrust of government and strive to elevate the capital of trust," she said.

Full text of Park's inauguration speech
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Old 2013-02-24, 23:16   Link #26698
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
I would recommend the establishment to set up requirements for participation in any mature thread.
It would probably fail anyway; even the best of us have their bad days.
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Old 2013-02-24, 23:20   Link #26699
Ridwan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
It would probably fail anyway; even the best of us have their bad days.
Which is why I only discuss political matters among my own circles nowadays. Even trolling gets tired after a while.
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Old 2013-02-25, 06:26   Link #26700
SaintessHeart
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South Korea's new president demands North drop nuclear ambitions

Quote:
Park also faces a challenge from a resurgent Japan whose exports have risen sharply after new Prime Minister Shinzo Abe embarked on a policy to weaken the yen currency.

The won has jumped five percent in 2013 against the yen after a 23 percent gain in 2012, boosting the competitiveness of Japanese exports of cars and electronics against the same goods that South Korean firms produce.

Park last week said she would take "pre-emptive" action on the weak yen, but has yet to specify what action she will take.
Yes! Weaken the won! Ease export restrictions! So I can go for holidays and buy real actual lolis to cuddle in BOTH Japan and Korea - *gets run over by a K2 Black Panther*
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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