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Old 2013-02-27, 10:01   Link #21
janipani
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This chapter actually had a new manga feel to it. Kishi still knows how to write children and this reminds me how the Naruto used to feel like before it became this mesh.

Well, I'm happy to know that it wasn't just my imagination... story really has gone worse. This fresh chapter proves it.
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Old 2013-02-27, 10:07   Link #22
mayumi
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to be honest, this flashback albeit important to sasuke because he uchiha and flashback is about senju and uchiha and their relations etc, it does nothing in terms of naruto. naruto is neither senju or uchiha, he is outside this world of quarrelling between clans.

i just want to know more about uzuamkis and where they were during the war times. since they already seemed to have a village and country established and didn't really seem to clash with uchiha or senju, where were they?

senju story means nothing if it doesn't relate back to a clan in present konoha. even if kishi says uzumaki is senju's sister clan, it was not the uzumakis who established konoha and fucked it up. naruto does not have to take responsibility for hashirama's failures but it looks like it is another long list of responsibilities naruto has to carry cause hashirama is from sister clan to uzumaki.

itachi, nagato, jiraiya, minato and now hashirama, all their failures naruto has to bear it.
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Old 2013-02-27, 10:26   Link #23
james0246
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Originally Posted by mystogan View Post
i din't hate this chapter, even though this chapter did not reveal anything else from the history but it intensified of what we know how the lives of shinobi were before the village system, i think the intention of this chapter wasn't to reveal any information but to reveal the lives of Hashirama and Madara, so i think it was good to show lives of theirs so that it could be established properly as to why those two are always seen fighting a death battle.
i think these flashbacks and past is necessary to portray things in the future,
Agree completely.

I didn't really like this chapter: the humor felt very stilted and unnecessary at times (knowing Madara's bathroom habits is no more funny than Naruto checking for Armadillo penises and much of Hashirama's shtick felt forced (though I guess an argument can be made that he doesn't understand how to interact with non-Senjuu)), and the random meeting of Hashirama and Madara makes little to no sense (are we really supposed to believe that the Uchiha and Senjuu clans are living right next to each other?) and ultimately feels forced. And, of course, the pointlessness of Itama's existence (talk about a red shirt).

But, I also didn't dislike this chapter. It is important set-up for future events, and it clearly defines the characters and their personalities quite well. Sadly, everything they say and do is almost already known before it even happens, consequently the pacing drags making the dramatic moments less compelling (I continue to believe that Kishimoto wants us to root for Itama's death). This chapter could have used a better establishing opening (a page or so actually detailing the world) and a few less pages in the middle centered on Itama (who really didn't need to exist since the chapter starts with the burial of another Senjuu), and the father character needed some real dialogue. Still, the moment at the end with Madara felt very "real" and I certainly felt for the two characters. Some good stuff there.

In conclusion: I hate Itama. God do I hate Itama. What a worthless nonsensical character that took up too much space, did nothing of real importance, and all the while looking ugly, snotty and annoying. He deserved to die viciously, and I hope the Uchiha even destroyed his ashes so he could never return.
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Old 2013-02-27, 10:45   Link #24
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Agree completely.

I didn't really like this chapter: the humor felt very stilted and unnecessary at times (knowing Madara's bathroom habits is no more funny than Naruto checking for Armadillo penises and much of Hashirama's shtick felt forced (though I guess an argument can be made that he doesn't understand how to interact with non-Senjuu)), and the random meeting of Hashirama and Madara makes little to no sense (are we really supposed to believe that the Uchiha and Senjuu clans are living right next to each other?) and ultimately feels forced. And, of course, the pointlessness of Itama's existence (talk about a red shirt).

But, I also didn't dislike this chapter. It is important set-up for future events, and it clearly defines the characters and their personalities quite well. Sadly, everything they say and do is almost already known before it even happens, consequently the pacing drags making the dramatic moments less compelling (I continue to believe that Kishimoto wants us to root for Itama's death). This chapter could have used a better establishing opening (a page or so actually detailing the world) and a few less pages in the middle centered on Itama (who really didn't need to exist since the chapter starts with the burial of another Senjuu), and the father character needed some real dialogue. Still, the moment at the end with Madara felt very "real" and I certainly felt for the two characters. Some good stuff there.

In conclusion: I hate Itama. God do I hate Itama. What a worthless nonsensical character that took up too much space, did nothing of real importance, and all the while looking ugly, snotty and annoying. He deserved to die viciously, and I hope the Uchiha even destroyed his ashes so he could never return.
Reading the last paragraph, i hope Kishimoto will make Hashirama do a special Love Jutsu which brings forth millions, if not billions Itama's.

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Old 2013-02-27, 10:49   Link #25
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He already has, it's called Edo Tensei!
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Old 2013-02-27, 11:03   Link #26
james0246
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Originally Posted by DarkHollowIchigo View Post
Reading the last paragraph, i hope Kishimoto will make Hashirama do a special Love Jutsu which brings forth millions, if not billions Itama's.

And now I hate you. .

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He already has, it's called Edo Tensei!
That's why even Itama's ashes need to be destroyed...

(Sadly, I expect that it will be confirmed that Tobirama invents Edo Tensei for just this reason.)
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Old 2013-02-27, 11:14   Link #27
Dengar
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Hm.. I actually enjoyed this chapter. It was pretty cute to see a non-angry Madara. I won't berate anyone for hating it though. They have their points.
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Old 2013-02-27, 11:22   Link #28
mystogan
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Agree completely.

I didn't really like this chapter: the humor felt very stilted and unnecessary at times (knowing Madara's bathroom habits is no more funny than Naruto checking for Armadillo penises and much of Hashirama's shtick felt forced (though I guess an argument can be made that he doesn't understand how to interact with non-Senjuu)), and the random meeting of Hashirama and Madara makes little to no sense (are we really supposed to believe that the Uchiha and Senjuu clans are living right next to each other?) and ultimately feels forced. And, of course, the pointlessness of Itama's existence (talk about a red shirt).

But, I also didn't dislike this chapter. It is important set-up for future events, and it clearly defines the characters and their personalities quite well. Sadly, everything they say and do is almost already known before it even happens, consequently the pacing drags making the dramatic moments less compelling (I continue to believe that Kishimoto wants us to root for Itama's death). This chapter could have used a better establishing opening (a page or so actually detailing the world) and a few less pages in the middle centered on Itama (who really didn't need to exist since the chapter starts with the burial of another Senjuu), and the father character needed some real dialogue. Still, the moment at the end with Madara felt very "real" and I certainly felt for the two characters. Some good stuff there.

In conclusion: I hate Itama. God do I hate Itama. What a worthless nonsensical character that took up too much space, did nothing of real importance, and all the while looking ugly, snotty and annoying. He deserved to die viciously, and I hope the Uchiha even destroyed his ashes so he could never return.
i don't really felt any problem with the humor, they were still kids and especially boys that age make stupid funny moments of themselves and it is in the story that Madara falls into dark side after the death of his brother, if Madara was shown all emo at the beginning then there will be no point in Inuza'a death.

and why so much hate for Itama,i don't think he was ugly in particular but even if we consider it, he was the character who is around the main character who's death causes grief to the main character, if you think that way then Nagato's parents face wasn't even shown properly, but their murder had great impact on him, it was because of this that Nagato came to realize the bad and dirty things Konoha did which was a great part of Nagato

and why are people so bored with this chapter,this chapter is the foundation of Madara and Hashirama after how much godly they have been shown, when there is a chapter dedicated to action then everyone complains that the story is not progressing, when there is a flashback required to build up the character then everyone says it's boring and there is no action,
then do you think that it would have been better if we had no flashback of Nagato, no flashback of Itachi and Hashirama just answering sasuke in one line!?
i don't think so.
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Old 2013-02-27, 11:46   Link #29
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How CAN people even hate Itama. It's not like he actually did anything other than exist and then die.
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Old 2013-02-27, 11:46   Link #30
james0246
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i don't really felt any problem with the humor, they were still kids and especially boys that age make stupid funny moments of themselves and it is in the story that Madara falls into dark side after the death of his brother, if Madara was shown all emo at the beginning then there will be no point in Inuza'a death.
I somehow doubt the child soldiers of Africa go out and joke around the local pond, and since the warring period is supposed to be similar in misery to those child soldiers, I found the humor to be misplaced. Not unneeded, just the wrong note. It would have been funnier if they just ragged on each other (which they were doing, and it was funny), since that is something young boys do just as much as talking about their bathroom situations .

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and why so much hate for Itama,i don't think he was ugly in particular but even if we consider it, he was the character who is around the main character who's death causes grief to the main character, if you think that way then Nagato's parents face wasn't even shown properly, but their murder had great impact on him, it was because of this that Nagato came to realize the bad and dirty things Konoha did which was a great part of Nagato
Itama's entire purpose was to die. Literally. He was vaguely introduced (Oh look, there's little Hashirama. And Tobirama. And Itama. Wait. What?). He served no real purpose that the already dead Senjuu seen being buried couldn't also serve (the dead Senjuu had the same -ma in their name, so presumably he could have been another brother), and what's worse, the already dead Senjuu had almost as much personality as Itama. edit: He also serves to weaken the drama since he lacks any real personality: we already know that the characters live during a trying time, creating a new character expressly to die doesn't add to the drama, in fact it detracts because the character is so blatantly contrived and unneeded. Also, his death took up 2 pages; 2 pages that could have been used on further conversation with the father or with Madara. And to top it all off, he is a physically ugly character to look at. I hate Itama.

But, I'll limit my posting of his pointlessness starting...now.

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and why are people so bored with this chapter,this chapter is the foundation of Madara and Hashirama after how much godly they have been shown, when there is a chapter dedicated to action then everyone complains that the story is not progressing, when there is a flashback required to build up the character then everyone says it's boring and there is no action,
Many are bored because nothing the characters are saying hasn't been said or speculated on before. There is very little new information being presented, it is just being presented well. Consequently, it is easy to see why some find the chapter boring (I did find the chapter boring, but that didn't influence my like or dislike of the chapter).

Last edited by james0246; 2013-02-27 at 12:02.
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Old 2013-02-27, 11:51   Link #31
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In conclusion: I hate Itama. God do I hate Itama. What a worthless nonsensical character that took up too much space, did nothing of real importance, and all the while looking ugly, snotty and annoying. He deserved to die viciously, and I hope the Uchiha even destroyed his ashes so he could never return.
They didn't destroy his ashes. We saw his body being retrieved by the Senjuu.
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Old 2013-02-27, 12:15   Link #32
MysticNinjaJay
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Well this wasn't an exciting chapter by any means. I do appreciate the backstory which shows what a hard childhood Hashirama and Madara had. They like all adults were children once and their rivalry and apparent friendship goes back to childhood like Naruto and Sasuke. The fact that they had other siblings than the ones we were introduced to who had untimely deaths is meant to show us how rough life was for Ninja in their era and how necessary alliances like the one that formed Leaf Village were.

I hope Kishomoto does not drag this out over 10 or so chapters. I do think Sasuke's talk with the Hokage is important but don't over do it with the backstory. It would be especially lame if Sasuke hears all this and was like "Hmmmm, yeah I'm still going to seek revenge on the village." Maybe he will do that anyway but hopefully these revelations will effect his conscience.
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Old 2013-02-27, 12:26   Link #33
amaterasu4
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Nice chapter. Hashirama's younger brother reminded me to the main character of 666 Satan which was written by Kishimoto's twin.
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Old 2013-02-27, 12:33   Link #34
mystogan
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Itama's entire purpose was to die. Literally. He was vaguely introduced (Oh look, there's little Hashirama. And Tobirama. And Itama. Wait. What?). He served no real purpose that the already dead Senjuu seen being buried couldn't also serve (the dead Senjuu had the same -ma in their name, so presumably he could have been another brother), and what's worse, the already dead Senjuu had almost as much personality as Itama. edit: He also serves to weaken the drama since he lacks any real personality: we already know that the characters live during a trying time, creating a new character expressly to die doesn't add to the drama, in fact it detracts because the character is so blatantly contrived and unneeded. Also, his death took up 2 pages; 2 pages that could have been used on further conversation with the father or with Madara. And to top it all off, he is a physically ugly character to look at. I hate Itama.

But, I'll limit my posting of his pointlessness starting...now.
you do realize that this chapter wasn't the events of a day or two, it was Hashirama narrating through some important events, it wasn't possible to show every moment of Itama and Hashirama in there, because if it did then it would have dragged on too long, which is not the main purpose here, fine if you don't like the character design of him, but i don't think he was completely worthless, and i think it makes difference when some distant relative in the clan dies and your close brother dies, just the death of other senjuu wouldn't have helped in that part

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Many are bored because nothing the characters are saying hasn't been said or speculated on before. There is very little new information being presented, it is just being presented well. Consequently, it is easy to see why some find the chapter boring (I did find the chapter boring, but that didn't influence my like or dislike of the chapter).
yes stories of them have been told, but that isn't exactly character development that is giving reputations to character, but to develop a character it is necessary to show them in person, before this chapter we din't even knew that they had met like this, din't we always picture them on battlefield against each other,

yes there wasn't a lot excitement or thrill in the flashback, may be because we have always seen and heard stories of these characters and haven't seen them active or in actual movement , even these are the events the Hashirama is telling to sasuke, that is why most are not feeling the excitement, but i don't feel like it was a wastage or anything, because i'd like to see the answers Hashirama gives are based on what
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Old 2013-02-27, 13:44   Link #35
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I wasn't really bothered by the chapter as much as I was bothered that this crap, we all already know all too well, will drag on for at least another 3 chapters.
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Old 2013-02-27, 15:31   Link #36
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Aw its not so bad... Just try and pretend that you're learning about the backstory of the Uzumaki clan instead. You know that would make all the difference in the world, I bet a chapter identical to this but about them could be shown, and you guys would love it.
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Old 2013-02-27, 15:38   Link #37
felix
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Aw its not so bad... Just try and pretend that you're learning about the backstory of the Uzumaki clan instead. You know that would make all the difference in the world, I bet a chapter identical to this but about them could be shown, and you guys would love it.
I'm interested in the backstory, I just hoped they skip this part. Worse still repeating the whole "friend / foe" deal, while it makes sense as some narrative device I guess, makes the character very much overpowered emos.

I like my stone hearted, cold blooded villains dammmit! don't need everyone to be a goody-goody.
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Old 2013-02-27, 15:42   Link #38
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Why is everyone complaining about this chapter??? This is easily the most important back stories of the series being told that will explain why the world is the way it is, and will explain the conflict between hashirama and madara, and will effect sasukes decision...basically setting up how the manga will end.

But this is stuff you already know right?

You knew Madara and Hashirama met as kids right?
You knew they had the same ideals before the truce was ever made right?
You knew Hashirama had another brother and madara had 3 other brothers right?
You know how they fell out and shaped the current world as it is right?

Oh you don't? Then shut up and keep reading.
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Old 2013-02-27, 15:46   Link #39
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I'm interested in the backstory, I just hoped they skip this part. Worse still repeating the whole "friend / foe" deal, while it makes sense as some narrative device I guess, makes the character very much overpowered emos.

I like my stone hearted, cold blooded villains dammmit! don't need everyone to be a goody-goody.
Well its pretty clear that it's the author's message, everyone starts out as a pure innocent child, and later turns into a monster because of the ninja world. I hear you loud and clear tough, it sometimes feels like we have to be dragged down a sympathetic explaination for nearly every villain we come across. You can just imagine the back-music that the anime will play for these scenes :P ...It probably wouldn't feel as frustrating if the chapters weren't so short.
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Old 2013-02-27, 15:51   Link #40
felix
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the most important back stories of the series being told that will explain why the world is the way it is
IMHO, we really don't NEED to know. Having it "everyone's in the retarded murdering business" makes it a lot more clever then "uh well you see there was these two boys and a stone, uh and you see because, the stone didn't flipply flop on the puddle we got the current ninja world! uh-huh" <.<;;;


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But this is stuff you already know right?

You knew Madara and Hashirama met as kids right?
You knew they had the same ideals before the truce was ever made right?
You knew Hashirama had another brother and madara had 3 other brothers right?
You know how they fell out and shaped the current world as it is right?

Oh you don't? Then shut up and keep reading.
We knew they met as MEN which was way better.
We knew they had GUTS and the truce was made on ninja blood and glory of MEN, not "childhood dreams" in "random child murder land".
We didn't and we were better off. What exactly do you know more about he's character now? that he cries near rivers?
We knew they were fighting for their clans. Now we know they were fighting for their inner emo of peace.

Keep reading? I'm actually considering if I'm not better of skipping it.

The entire chapter was negative characterization and world building for me. I'm sure some people liked it and good for them, but this is a little too far off from the the story I wanted to read.
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