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Old 2013-02-27, 13:55   Link #21
synaesthetic
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The lack of good hard sci-fi is something that bothers me considerably, but softer sci-fi doesn't seem to be slowing down much. I can't speak for anime, really--I've become so frustrated with the medium that I haven't been paying attention to new releases--but the gaming industry has been churning out loads and loads of sci-fi titles.

The Mass Effect series is ridiculously popular, and it draws heavily from 70s and 80s sci-fi tropes.

I don't think I'm growing out of anime so much as I simply dislike the state of the industry currently. Japan never managed to crawl completely out of their economic implosion and it's showing quite visibly in the number of otakubait shows that are released every year--and this keeps rising.

I miss the wide breadth of genre and theme that pervaded anime throughout the earlier years--it seems that every other show these days is another moe-infused fanservice fest with little actual substance.

Oh, I understand why this happens--these kind of stories are cheap and easy to write and by their nature lend themselves to simpler art direction and don't contain budget-draining battle scenes and setpieces. They're gobbled up by the hardcore otaku population in Japan and are really well-suited to selling lots and lots of licensed merchandise.

It's just depressing. What happened to the shows like Planetes, Starship Operators, Eve no Jikan, Noein, Dennou Coil? The simple answer is that discerning fans are more expensive to please, so the industry ignores us in favor of the more gullible, more easily amused "moe" fans.

The MMO industry has this same issue right now, hence the massive prevalence of the free-to-play with microtransactions model. The oldschool MMO gamers who prefer to pay a subscription fee to guarantee content updates, bugfixes and excellent customer support are being ditched in favor of the fickle, game-hopping, gullible F2P crowd.

The current model disincentivizes fostering loyalty in the customer base and promotes a revolving-door playerbase where folks sign up, play for a while, spend some money on the item mall, and then get bored and quit so that the bandwidth and server resources are thusly freed up for the next F2P kiddy.

This kind of "fast food entertainment" mentality is not restricted to social and multiplayer gaming alone. It's spread throughout film, literature and... yes, even anime and manga.
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Old 2013-02-27, 14:33   Link #22
4Tran
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Much of the conflict in many of the Gundam shows revolved around those who stayed on Earth being at odds with those who lived "in the stars" (i.e. who colonized other worlds and/or built vast artificial environments to live in within outer space).
I don't think that Gundam says an awful lot about space exploration to begin with, but didn't Gundam AGE just wrap up?

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
There hasn't been as much of that in recent years. I think this reflects how colonizing outer space and "living in the stars" no longer captures the imagination of people as much as it used to.
You'd be more correct if you claimed that there are fewer space operas than there have been in the past, but space operas are not the same thing as space exploration shows. Shows like Space Brothers are, and it's currently airing.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Really? I always thought that Super Sentai heroes, and big shounen shows like DBZ, Naruto, One Piece, and Bleach, were the Japanese equivalent of superhero shows/comics. Goku being the anime/Japanese equivalent of Superman is a concept commonly held by fans of both anime and superhero comics.
They both fulfill a similar niche, but mecha anime are older. Do note that the Super Sentai shows are mecha shows as well.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Which mecha shows are currently airing?
For OVAs, there's Code Geass Akito and Gundam Unicorn. For ongoing TV shows, there's Gyrozetter, Robotic;Notes and AKB0048. Really, you can include Vividred Operation as well. There's pretty much a mini-Renaissance going on for mecha anime.

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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
It's just depressing. What happened to the shows like Planetes, Starship Operators, Eve no Jikan, Noein, Dennou Coil? The simple answer is that discerning fans are more expensive to please, so the industry ignores us in favor of the more gullible, more easily amused "moe" fans.
They're still there, but the problem is that they don't sell particularly well. Right now, Space Brothers, Shinsekai Yori, Psycho-Pass and Robotics;Note have element of the shows you listed. Whether they're as good will be up to your tastes.
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Old 2013-02-27, 14:54   Link #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
For OVAs, there's Code Geass Akito and Gundam Unicorn. For ongoing TV shows, there's Gyrozetter, Robotic;Notes and AKB0048.
Robotic;Notes is a good show, but classifying it as "mecha" is quite the stretch. If a show doesn't include a major protagonist donning a mechanized battle suit within the first five episodes or so, then that doesn't really make me think "mecha".

AKB0048 is more of an idol show than a mecha show.


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Really, you can include Vividred Operation as well.
VRO is more of a magical girl show (with a sci-fi feel) than a mecha show. What giant robot is being piloted in VRO? By a protagonist?


Quote:
There's pretty much a mini-Renaissance going on for mecha anime.
No, it's not. Again, where's the recent equivalent to Code Geass? Or TTGL? Or NGE? A mecha Renaissance should involve at least something comparable to one of those three. We don't even have a long-running weekly Gundam show right now.
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Old 2013-02-27, 15:16   Link #24
Bri
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Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post
Isn't it because space is boring?
Same can be said for high school. Yet it is everywhere in anime, you can't even escape it in death

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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Is it really so true for anime? The science fiction boom in the '80s and '90s came largely from OVAs, and the decline has come as OVAs were phased out. This doesn't seem to be a coincidence.
My guess is it was mostly driven by the toy industry and their sponsoring of children's anime in the 70s and 80s. The consolidations and mergers left far fewer toy sponsors post 90s. The OVA market transformed in to the late night market model and just found different sponsors in publishers and game developers.

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Mecha shows are basically the Japanese equivalent of superhero shows/comics.
That is too narrow a definition. Vehicles/robots have been used in plenty of different genres as a means to build plots around. It's different from the empowerment fantasy that drives shonen, sentai or superhero content.

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I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the American scientific pessimism is due to the perceived failure of NASA and the space shuttle. Manned space exploration has always been the sexiest image of scientific endeavors, and as such has been the primary seller of science fiction and futurism to the general public.
It's not only visible in US fiction but all across the West. The postwar optimism that (scientific and social) progress will make each generation better off in comparison to the previous one seems to be lost. It's not unlike the pessimism that permeated Japan during the lost decade of the 90s.
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Old 2013-02-27, 15:17   Link #25
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Well Yamato 2199 will be on TV starting in April. You can get your Space Opera there along with highly detailed space ships.
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Old 2013-02-27, 16:13   Link #26
4Tran
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Robotic;Notes is a good show, but classifying it as "mecha" is quite the stretch. If a show doesn't include a major protagonist donning a mechanized battle suit within the first five episodes or so, then that doesn't really make me think "mecha".
As below, mecha anime are a little broader than they used to be. Even if a show is not a traditional mecha show, it can still have many identifiable elements associated with the genre.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
VRO is more of a magical girl show (with a sci-fi feel) than a mecha show. What giant robot is being piloted in VRO? By a protagonist?
Vividred is an old school mecha show that eschews the mecha for the protagonists. However, it's absolutely saturated with super robot elements and there are even mecha in it.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
No, it's not. Again, where's the recent equivalent to Code Geass? Or TTGL? Or NGE? A mecha Renaissance should involve at least something comparable to one of those three.
Why? I'm referring to the number of shows made, not their quality. Besides, I never thought that highly of Code Geass or Gurren Lagann in the first place, so how is this a criterion? As for Evangelion, I'm pretty sure that they're making more as we speak.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
We don't even have a long-running weekly Gundam show right now.
You're aware that there is usually a gap of 1-2 years between Gundam TV shows, right? Given that, it's odd to use it as an example when AGE wrapped up a whole two months ago.

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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
My guess is it was mostly driven by the toy industry and their sponsoring of children's anime in the 70s and 80s. The consolidations and mergers left far fewer toy sponsors post 90s. The OVA market transformed in to the late night market model and just found different sponsors in publishers and game developers.
That's true of the mecha shows, but science fiction shows don't typically have that much merchandising.

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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
That is too narrow a definition. Vehicles/robots have been used in plenty of different genres as a means to build plots around. It's different from the empowerment fantasy that drives shonen, sentai or superhero content.
True enough - as a genre matures, it can broaden it's salient points and adopt all sorts of new story elements. However, the very same thing applies to superhero comics as well.

At their cores though, these genres are designed to satisfy the empowerment urge.

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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
It's not only visible in US fiction but all across the West. The postwar optimism that (scientific and social) progress will make each generation better off in comparison to the previous one seems to be lost. It's not unlike the pessimism that permeated Japan during the lost decade of the 90s.
I can see a palpable decline in the U.S. (most significantly felt in the lack of science fiction TV), but is it also true of other countries? The last I heard, German and French print science fiction was still going strong. Even the British seem more enthusiastic about science fiction TV shows than the Americans are. From the cultural point of view, I don't think that "the West" in this context has much bearing on the trends in Japan.
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Old 2013-02-27, 16:33   Link #27
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Is it really so true for anime? The science fiction boom in the '80s and '90s came largely from OVAs, and the decline has come as OVAs were phased out. This doesn't seem to be a coincidence.
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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
My guess is it was mostly driven by the toy industry and their sponsoring of children's anime in the 70s and 80s. The consolidations and mergers left far fewer toy sponsors post 90s. The OVA market transformed in to the late night market model and just found different sponsors in publishers and game developers
Yeah I agree with Bri ,it's not that the OVA market disappeared it just transformed into a massive late night anime market that was barely existent in the 80s and 90s.
I know on a whole the lengh of animes has gotten shorter,but there's still a few shows that come out in this day and age that are 1 cour that I figure would be a 3-6 episode OVA if they came out 15 years ago.


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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
I miss the wide breadth of genre and theme that pervaded anime throughout the earlier years--it seems that every other show these days is another moe-infused fanservice fest with little actual substance.
(...)It's just depressing. What happened to the shows like Planetes, Starship Operators, Eve no Jikan, Noein, Dennou Coil? The simple answer is that discerning fans are more expensive to please, so the industry ignores us in favor of the more gullible, more easily amused "moe" fans.
.
Why are the animes you listed memorable?Because they stood out in the sea of mediocrity that's always been there.
The only difference is in the old days otakus liked their females older and in space rather than younger and in highschool.
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Old 2013-02-27, 17:43   Link #28
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I can see a palpable decline in the U.S. (most significantly felt in the lack of science fiction TV), but is it also true of other countries? The last I heard, German and French print science fiction was still going strong. Even the British seem more enthusiastic about science fiction TV shows than the Americans are. From the cultural point of view, I don't think that "the West" in this context has much bearing on the trends in Japan.
There has been and still is massive cross-cultural influence in sci-fi. Art movements don't stop at national borders. Also, Japan shares similar post-WWII social developments with most of the developed world. Rapid economic expansion for roughly half a century then economic stagnation and an aging population. A sense of fin de siècle can be felt in popular culture in most of the developed world.
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Old 2013-02-27, 18:08   Link #29
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Steins;Gate is notorious for having an opening episode that's much worse than the main series. In fact, many of the people I've come across who like the show thought the first episode was outright terrible.
4Tran! It feels like it's been ages since I last saw you active and posted back and forth with you. I hope you've been well!

Good to know about Steins;Gate; I'll keep that in mind if and when I return to it.
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Old 2013-02-27, 19:52   Link #30
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
As below, mecha anime are a little broader than they used to be. Even if a show is not a traditional mecha show, it can still have many identifiable elements associated with the genre.
Well, what I was talking about was the decline of the traditional mecha show. In fairness, I probably could have been a bit clearer here.

I don't think that Sci-Fi, in a broader sense, has declined. At least not in sheer quantity. Like I wrote in a previous post on this thread, I think that Sci-Fi is still reasonably popular.

But Sci-Fi has shifted based on how the real world itself has changed over the past couple of decades.

Steins;Gate and Psycho-Pass are good examples of this. Neither of these shows has a mecha in it. Neither of them have androids or robots or AIs as major cast members. The sci-fi elements of these shows are visually subtle.

Sci-Fi used to make people think of things like Robocop, the Terminator, big mechanical monsters roaming about, and large fancy spaceships with intricate high-tech details all over its exterior. This sort of industrialist and "heavy machinery" sci-fi has largely faded away, because it never fully panned out in reality itself.

Yes, you could say that VRO is a "Mecha" show that substitutes the actual mecha for slightly armored protagonists wielding mechanical weapons. But even if so, that in itself says something about where sci-fi is going in the world of anime. It's slowly going away from the classic giant humanoid mecha, and the fancy schmancy spaceship.

If you just like general Sci-Fi, then this isn't necessarily a problem. But if you like mecha, then it could be a problem for you. So I sympathize with what some other people have wrote on this thread about mecha.


I think there was a time when millions upon millions of young boys all around the world (including Japan, perhaps especially Japan) dreamed about building and/or piloting big, high-tech machines. And that helped fuel the Sci-Fi shows of the era, both in live-action and animation. But times have changed. It's a nuanced thing, and it is hard to put it into words, as Bri said. But let's just say that I think the "nerd" of today is not as much into robotics, engineering, and outer space exploration as the "nerd" of the 70s and 80s was. This probably includes otakus as well.


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Why? I'm referring to the number of shows made, not their quality.
I'm not referring to quality either. What I'm referring to is impact on the anime medium as a whole. If mecha is enjoying a Renaissance (even a "mini" one) then that should mean that one of the most highly hyped modern anime shows is a mecha show. There should be a mecha show in that Madoka Magica, Fate/Zero, Monogatari series, and SAO echelon of hype and popularity.

I mean, Code Geass was huge. NGE was huge. TTGL wasn't as big as either of those two, but it was still a very popular show that was widely talked about in the anime fandom and sold well on DVDs/Blu-Rays.


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As for Evangelion, I'm pretty sure that they're making more as we speak.
Yes, but that's at least partly cashing in on nostalgia. It's not the same as something new taking the anime world by storm.


Quote:
Given that, it's odd to use it as an example when AGE wrapped up a whole two months ago.
Let's be honest, AGE was a flop, at least commercially. If anything, AGE's problems speaks to how traditional mecha really is in decline.

And personally, I think you might be broadening the definition of mecha to the point where it's indistinguishable from generic Sci-Fi. If that is what happens to the genre definition for mecha, then mecha really is dead or on life support. Just think of what's happened to "Slice of Life"...


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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
The only difference is in the old days otakus liked their females older and in space rather than younger and in highschool.
Even if your right, and to be fair, these can be very significant differences for some people.
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Old 2013-02-27, 20:14   Link #31
Bri
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Let's be honest, AGE was a flop, at least commercially. If anything, AGE's problems speaks to how traditional mecha really is in decline.
I recall reading something about how the target demographic (AGE was meant to compete with tokusatsu for the 6 to 12 year old market) couldn't connect with the show as things like space colonies were beyond their imagination. Something inside just died a little when I read that. I guess that is what is like to grow old and out of touch
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Old 2013-02-28, 00:01   Link #32
4Tran
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There has been and still is massive cross-cultural influence in sci-fi. Art movements don't stop at national borders. Also, Japan shares similar post-WWII social developments with most of the developed world. Rapid economic expansion for roughly half a century then economic stagnation and an aging population. A sense of fin de siècle can be felt in popular culture in most of the developed world.
I don't see this being true of science fiction. One huge barrier is language - because English dominates the science fiction world so much, there is very little movement from non-English sources. From what I can tell, Japanese science fiction has had very different concerns and approaches, and I can't see all that much cross-pollination. I admit that I'm not too familiar with Japanese written science fiction - perhaps you can enlighten me on this.

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Well, what I was talking about was the decline of the traditional mecha show. In fairness, I probably could have been a bit clearer here.
The mecha genre has moved on, and neither Code Geass nor Evangelion should count as traditional mecha shows. What's amusing is that Vividred is a traditional mecha show.

The fact remains that there are quite a few mecha shows on right now, there were quite a few in 2012, and there are looking to be quite a few later this year.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Yes, you could say that VRO is a "Mecha" show that substitutes the actual mecha for slightly armored protagonists wielding mechanical weapons. But even if so, that in itself says something about where sci-fi is going in the world of anime. It's slowly going away from the classic giant humanoid mecha, and the fancy schmancy spaceship.
Vividred is a mecha show because it takes a lot of the ideas and elements of the oldest super robot anime: we have the protagonist taking up her grandfather's invention, we have the alien invaders, the attacks and weapons are all based ones in old super robot shows, there's the docking sequences, and really almost everything super-power related in the show.

Mecha shows, especially the traditional ones, don't have all that much relationship to science fiction. It just so happens that there are some prominent shows that combined the two.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I think there was a time when millions upon millions of young boys all around the world (including Japan, perhaps especially Japan) dreamed about building and/or piloting big, high-tech machines. And that helped fuel the Sci-Fi shows of the era, both in live-action and animation. But times have changed. It's a nuanced thing, and it is hard to put it into words, as Bri said. But let's just say that I think the "nerd" of today is not as much into robotics, engineering, and outer space exploration as the "nerd" of the 70s and 80s was. This probably includes otakus as well.
If you're really interested in this, you should check out what kinds of shows children are actually watching nowadays.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I'm not referring to quality either. What I'm referring to is impact on the anime medium as a whole. If mecha is enjoying a Renaissance (even a "mini" one) then that should mean that one of the most highly hyped modern anime shows is a mecha show. There should be a mecha show in that Madoka Magica, Fate/Zero, Monogatari series, and SAO echelon of hype and popularity.
Again, I'm talking about how many mecha shows are being made. Their actual impact is irrelevant to my argument.

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Let's be honest, AGE was a flop, at least commercially. If anything, AGE's problems speaks to how traditional mecha really is in decline.
I think it has more to do with nobody liking the show. You'd be better off blaming the show than blaming the genre.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
And personally, I think you might be broadening the definition of mecha to the point where it's indistinguishable from generic Sci-Fi. If that is what happens to the genre definition for mecha, then mecha really is dead or on life support. Just think of what's happened to "Slice of Life"...
I'm overly-broadening mecha shows by including Gundam AGE?

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I like how frequent complaints about anime sucking now always generate an idealized anime from only a few years ago, as if it instead of realizing the grand perspective of things over the years as opposed to some kind of evil scheme to brainwash otaku into becoming mindless NEETs that has popped up over the last few years.
It'll be really interesting to see how Rotoscope: the Anime is going to turn out. The future of anime may be at hand!

Spoiler:


There's also Kingdom and maybe the Berserk films as well. They may look awful, but they're definitely trying something new.
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Old 2013-02-28, 00:32   Link #33
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
The mecha genre has moved on, and neither Code Geass nor Evangelion should count as traditional mecha shows.
Why not? Both shows involve a lot of combat centered around giant humanoid mechas being piloted by humans.

That is the core of a "mecha as primary genre" show - Giant humanoid mechas being piloted by humans.

Arguing that Vividred is a "traditional mecha show" when it doesn't even have that core honestly seems a bit absurd to me.

You put all this importance on a bunch of secondary tropes while basically ignoring the very core of what makes mecha mecha.


Quote:
The fact remains that there are quite a few mecha shows on right now, there were quite a few in 2012, and there are looking to be quite a few later this year.
No, that's not a fact. That's not a fact because the way you're assigning the "mecha show" label is highly debatable.


Quote:
Vividred is a mecha show because it takes a lot of the ideas and elements of the oldest super robot anime: we have the protagonist taking up her grandfather's invention, we have the alien invaders, the attacks and weapons are all based ones in old super robot shows, there's the docking sequences, and really almost everything super-power related in the show.
Where you see "mecha" here, I think it's at least as easy to see "magical girl".

Spoiler for Some slight VRO spoilers:



Quote:
Again, I'm talking about how many mecha shows are being made. Their actual impact is irrelevant to my argument.
I disagree. I think it is relevant to your argument. Part of your argument was that mecha is enjoying a mini-renaissance.

Sheer quantity of mecha shows doesn't achieve that alone, particularly when the quantity of anime shows in general is up in recent years, and particularly when some of the shows you listed are arguably not even mecha shows.

But even if you really have sheer quantity on your side, the fact that none of these shows is having a major Nisemonogatari/SAO-level impact means that the genre itself can't be that popular right now.

If something is enjoying a renaissance, then that means it's popular. It should be "trending", in Twitter-speak. I don't see mecha "trending" right now.


Quote:
I think it has more to do with nobody liking the show. You'd be better off blaming the show than blaming the genre.
So you don't think there's any chance that Gundam Age flopped, at least in part, because interest in mecha is dwindling amongst the hardcore anime fanbase in Japan?

If nothing else, Gundam Age's lack of success may well signify that the current kid generation in Japan is not interested in mecha.
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Old 2013-02-28, 01:36   Link #34
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I disagree. I think it is relevant to your argument. Part of your argument was that mecha is enjoying a mini-renaissance.

Sheer quantity of mecha shows doesn't achieve that alone, particularly when the quantity of anime shows in general is up in recent years, and particularly when some of the shows you listed are arguably not even mecha shows.

But even if you really have sheer quantity on your side, the fact that none of these shows is having a major Nisemonogatari/SAO-level impact means that the genre itself can't be that popular right now.

If something is enjoying a renaissance, then that means it's popular. It should be "trending", in Twitter-speak. I don't see mecha "trending" right now.
While I will agree with you that mecha is not very popular right now, however basing a trend of entire genre base on show is flawed. I do think quantity matters more in judging popularity of a genre.



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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
So you don't think there's any chance that Gundam Age flopped, at least in part, because interest in mecha is dwindling amongst the hardcore anime fanbase in Japan?

If nothing else, Gundam Age's lack of success may well signify that the current kid generation in Japan is not interested in mecha.
Only watched about 3 episodes of Age so far, so I can't judge. But I do believe that Unicorn is doing well in Japan so far, so there might be some merit on Age just being a bad show.
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Old 2013-02-28, 01:37   Link #35
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How many of you watching Space Brothers right now?
I was planning but the title and lack of suitable heroines did not get me...

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Spoiler for Some slight VRO spoilers:
I cursed the blasted granpa. Sorry... just my opinion.. and the series is just.. well.. MHO...
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Old 2013-02-28, 02:35   Link #36
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Gundam Unicorn is doing extremely well in sales. I don't think anything caught it in 2012 in individual disc sales. Yamato 2199 doesn't even try to compete with that, and it hold high sales in 2012 as well. Yamato 2199 is coming out the same way, but faster, having completed 14 episodes since April of 2012 (4 Chapters) with the end likely coming out in the Fall (probably before the last Gundam Unicorn episode). Plus Yamato 2199 will be on TV stating in April for a 26 episode series that will also end in the Fall.

Yamato 2199's 36,000 average is pretty good for disc sales from what I hear. Meanwhile Gundam Unicorn sports an average in disc sales of over 185,000.
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Old 2013-02-28, 04:01   Link #37
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
So you don't think there's any chance that Gundam Age flopped, at least in part, because interest in mecha is dwindling amongst the hardcore anime fanbase in Japan?
I agree with you that mecha as a genre is not at it's best in terms of popularity or in some cases quality (I do think you are exaggerating a bit by saying that the lack of a Nisemonogatari/SAO-level show on the scene is proof for mecha's lack of popularity, but I agree with the point nonetheless).

That said, even if it's not among the more popular genres currently, I do not think that is any indication that it is not still a major draw point to the hardcore fandom in Japan, especially with this example (there are multipliable reasons for AGE's failure(s) outside of the lack of interest in the mecha genre relative to the older era. Afterall, When Unicorn is the most successful OVA of all time and Code Geass: Akito the Exile manages to bring in a 30K+ recently, it's clear that there is still a great interest in mecha)

If you take a look at the number of mecha shows that aired/shown in the last few years, most of them enjoyed a decent-to-good success financially (with a good number of them getting a very mixed reaction to their content). So even if they aren't the titles that sell like hotcakes or are the most talked about, they still manage to attract a fair amount of people who are interested in following these series.

And since it's been mentioned here, Vividred and similar shows e.g. Symphogear and the like, even if not traditional mecha anime, still takes a lot of themes and elements from older mecha shows and incorporates them into its narrative and part of it's appeal. So even if they aren't mecha at their core, the fact that a lot of the influences and components that make up that core are from mecha anime shows that traditional mecha is still popular enough to exist across different genres, even if they aren't in the same form as typical mecha anime.

I think that there is still an interest in traditional mecha shows, just that there hasn't been a show recently that's been purely mecha to make it break through and become a strong presence again. Even then I think it's one of those mainstay genres that won't go away even if it's having a bit of a slump.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
If nothing else, Gundam Age's lack of success may well signify that the current kid generation in Japan is not interested in mecha.
As Bri had mentioned earlier in the discussion, that was one of the cited reasons for why the show never managed to appeal to that age group.

It's hard to know for certain if such claims were accurate or were they just an attempt to save face after AGE's less than stellar figures came in and the top brass realised that the show was tanking harder than anyone could imagine. I'm tempted to agree that it played some part in kids not being interested in the shows setting (there isn't really that much of an interest in space is in the older days, going by modern trends, I'd think) but I wonder if that would be the case had the marketing part of the project hadn't downplayed the shows existence and eventually abandoned it, or if the creative team behind the project knew what they were doing or had a clear idea of what AGE was meant to be about.

And even if interest in traditional mecha had dwindled severely, would that deter interest in AGE if it turned out to be interesting for kids? Trends only show what is the most popular currently, but they are not set in stone and change accordingly to what the viewers is interested in seeing/buying. Especially with a name like Gundam.

What I took from Gundam AGE's failure is that you can't just slap the Gundam name on anything and count on brand power as a guaranty for success. Especially not without some sort of plan or idea of what you are trying to achieve or create.
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Old 2013-02-28, 08:34   Link #38
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Even if your right, and to be fair, these can be very significant differences for some people.
Oh that I agree with!

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
But even if you really have sheer quantity on your side, the fact that none of these shows is having a major Nisemonogatari/SAO-level impact means that the genre itself can't be that popular right now.
Gundam Unicorn has outsold Nisemonogatari,SAO and Madoka Magica combined (I just threw in Madoka for the fun).I know it's an OVA series but still,selling an average of 185,000 copies over 5 volumes is massive.

Now,I'm no mecha expert but I think part of the issue here is that you are limiting mechas to "huge robots" while that's just one subgenre,just look at a show like Infinite Stratos ,I often here that show called a mecha and the characters don't pilot huge robots.
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Old 2013-02-28, 08:44   Link #39
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Now,I'm no mecha expert but I think part of the issue here is that you are limiting mechas to "huge robots" while that's just one subgenre,just look at a show like Infinite Stratos ,I often here that show called a mecha and the characters don't pilot huge robots.
I consider the devices used in Infinite Stratos to be power suits. Most people don't call Iron Man and Tiger & Bunny mecha.

Really, I don't think mecha is as much of a genre as it is a story device. The reason that it is called a genre may be is a marketing tactic to attract people who have a thing for watching characters manually pilot massive humanoid robots.
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Old 2013-02-28, 08:54   Link #40
Akito Kinomoto
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Originally Posted by Tempester View Post
I consider the devices used in Infinite Stratos to be power suits. Most people don't call Iron Man and Tiger & Bunny mecha.

Really, I don't think mecha is as much of a genre as it is a story device. The reason that it is called a genre may be is a marketing tactic to attract people who have a thing for watching characters manually pilot massive humanoid robots.
I guess we need to address it:

1. How do we define what a mecha is?

2. I'll take something from someone else's playbook about distinguishing between anime where a harem exists and an anime that's about the harem; how do we define a show that has mecha and a show that's about mecha?

Edit: Genre qualifier thread ahoy! xD
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