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Old 2013-03-02, 16:51   Link #601
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
If he sees Arata as an enemy, he would be making sinister face and do underhanded stuff to Arata (like when he is kid).
I disagree. To begin with, what the hell is an "enemy" in the context of this series? Besides, Taichi changed, and he would never resort to anything underhanded now, even if Arata wasn't his friend.
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Old 2013-03-02, 21:43   Link #602
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Well that was definitely a trip into bizarro world right there. I got a good kick out of them turning out to be Japanese, some of whom never stepped a foot out of their home towns, but I'm not entirely sure what to think of them being treated as quirky just because they look foreign.
They like Karuta. Of course they're going to be quirky. You think they've got Tsukuba or Chihaya beat in weirdness?

Quote:
It definitely wasn't ill-intentioned or anything so it's nothing close to racism but it can be a little awkward, especially when it gets to scenes where the foreign-looking club talks about being "put in their place" after their loss (I hope that was just bad translation),
Why? They're a newbie team from a karuta-poor region that tried to use cheap tricks to win, and were crushed by a veteran team. "Put in their place" sounds about right. ( But so did the nicer things he said after getting cheered up. )


Quote:
or when the Karuta club writes a (still well intentioned) message for them in English even when it's already been established that English is just as alien to the foreign looking players as it is to them.

I've only occasionally been in these situations, such as when a stranger thanks me in Urdu, assuming that I have a proficiency in it, but i just take them in good faith because that's the way they're intended so at the end of the day it's not a big deal (Plus it helps that i actually do have a certain degree of proficiency in it. XP).
Yeah, but it's the language they tried to pretend was their own.
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Old 2013-03-02, 22:26   Link #603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Yeah, but it's the language they tried to pretend was their own.
At first but then they say they're not that good at it.

There's not much sense in writing a message in english to someone who's told you he's born and raised in japan and only has middle school level english even if he's an adult.
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Old 2013-03-02, 23:12   Link #604
Kirarakim
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My interpretation of the the English writing in the end was it wasn't being used to communicate in their language (obviously) but something special between the two teams, almost like a secret code that only the two groups would understand the meaning of. In a sense I felt it was extending a hand of friendship.
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Old 2013-03-02, 23:16   Link #605
kitten320
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They still are foreigners and admit it despite having poor English language.

Even though they did grow in Japan, for Chihaya and others they still are foreigners because of the way they look so it wasn't that weird for them to write in English.

Usually things are always connected to appearance at first.
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Old 2013-03-02, 23:49   Link #606
GundamZZ
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Megumu finally has a proper introduction. Last season, she does not have the proper introduction. Too bad. It's understandable. Last season, they try to squeeze a lot of things at the end of the show.
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Old 2013-03-02, 23:49   Link #607
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I thought maybe it was Mizusawa's way of saying that there weren't any hard feelings over the psychological trick Chiba tried to pull. Mizusawa had fun; for them that's what mattered, so all was forgiven.
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Old 2013-03-03, 01:03   Link #608
Quadratic
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Quote:
Desktomu-kun worked just as hard as the rest of us. Could I do what he did?
After putting in so much hard work, could I accept that someone who started later had caught up to me?
I found this scene to be the most interesting part of the episode...ok, I lie, Arata & Shinobu was the most interesting .
But seriously, this has been quite prevalent throughout this show, but this is the first time hearing it from Chihaya (unless I missed it out earlier).
The earlier topic here regarding Chihaya idolizing Arata makes me wonder if the writers will pull a 'Chiahaya's holding her power level back because she's doesn't believe she deserves to be as strong as Arata and/or Shinobu'?
Anyway, it was rather bittersweet that Tsutomu has sacrificed himself to take on the support role, it reminded me of a similar scene in Space Brothers where the main characters essentially were told that their dreams could only become realities because of the support around them.


As for writing English on the whiteboard, it's possible that it was conceived by Chihaya and it's main purpose was for the camera to show good sportmanship to any international viewers (she does want Karuta to be a hit outside of Japan), since they did show them no mercy in the game (which could be interpreted as "get the f*** out, you dirty foreigners!" without ending it on a good note).


Also, those ass shots, oh yeah ...no wait, wrong show.
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Old 2013-03-03, 01:16   Link #609
Guardian Enzo
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That was a local TV news crew, so it's not as if there were likely to be many international viewers.
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Old 2013-03-03, 03:29   Link #610
Yume Hanabi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
My interpretation of the the English writing in the end was it wasn't being used to communicate in their language (obviously) but something special between the two teams, almost like a secret code that only the two groups would understand the meaning of. In a sense I felt it was extending a hand of friendship.
This, pretty much.

I really hope we see them again in the future :3

As for the "put in their place" comment, I agree with Anh_Minh. All characters who get overwhelmingly beaten have that kind of reaction at first: Chihaya's "I'm so mad", Kana's "I really can't do this", etc. It's the same sentiment.
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Old 2013-03-03, 04:11   Link #611
Quadratic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
That was a local TV news crew, so it's not as if there were likely to be many international viewers.
True, but the guy wanting to make a feature on a "blond samurai forges ahead with karuta"...forgive my ignorance, but do Japanese people find this term (blond samurai) appealing? *cough*The Last Samurai*cough*
(Hope I'm not reopening a can of worms )
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Old 2013-03-03, 04:15   Link #612
Guardian Enzo
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
True, but the guy wanting to make a feature on a "blond samurai forges ahead with karuta"...forgive my ignorance, but do Japanese people find this term (blond samurai) appealing? *cough*The Last Samurai*cough*
(Hope I'm not reopening a can of worms )
Absolutely, because of the curiosity factor. To put it bluntly, Japanese people seem to be endlessly fascinated by the strangeness of those they see as different from them. And the notion of someone who looks so different (even one who, in fact, has never left Japan) actually loving the esoteric game of Karuta which Tsukuba admits "even Japanese people don't like" would be a great story. Wheras to a non-Japanese, the reaction problem would be a completely blase "Karuta? What the hell is that?"
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Old 2013-03-03, 04:29   Link #613
GundamZZ
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It's probably similar to Japanese's reaction about western anime fans. Since their game is the native language centric, they didn't expect their products to get the oversea attention. In addition, their culture is influenced by western culture. So, their feeling is most likely complex.
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Last edited by GundamZZ; 2013-03-04 at 23:36.
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Old 2013-03-03, 05:35   Link #614
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
They like Karuta. Of course they're going to be quirky. You think they've got Tsukuba or Chihaya beat in weirdness?
Because they look foreign? Well the show wasn't really portrayed them as all that quirky, but the characters were sure intent on being bothered by them. The show did make a point that they shouldn't because it's getting in the way of their shared love of karuta but it would've been nicer if the show made a point that they shouldn't because it's not a good idea to do that in general. Now maybe I'm just expecting too much from a show where karuta is literally everything but as i said, the later examples didn't really help.

Quote:
Why? They're a newbie team from a karuta-poor region that tried to use cheap tricks to win, and were crushed by a veteran team. "Put in their place" sounds about right. ( But so did the nicer things he said after getting cheered up. )
They used one cheap trick in a game seemingly designed to reward cheap tricks. They were newbies but why does that mean they have to be put in their place? It was likely to just that but I couldn't help but think there might have been a double meaning their which is why I suspected it was just unfortunate translation that anything else.

Quote:
Yeah, but it's the language they tried to pretend was their own.
The message at the end was obviously meant to be a way of the karuta club accepting those foreign looking players for who they were, so it kinda falls short if they do so through a medium that doesn't actually represent who they are.
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Old 2013-03-03, 09:27   Link #615
Arya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
My interpretation of the the English writing in the end was it wasn't being used to communicate in their language (obviously) but something special between the two teams, almost like a secret code that only the two groups would understand the meaning of. In a sense I felt it was extending a hand of friendship.
Agree. This fits perfectly Taichi's team (and the series) way of thinking, being bound by the love of Karuta. Despite skills, gender, beauty, social status or origin.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
They used one cheap trick in a game seemingly designed to reward cheap tricks. They were newbies but why does that mean they have to be put in their place? It was likely to just that but I couldn't help but think there might have been a double meaning their which is why I suspected it was just unfortunate translation that anything else.
My take of that statement is again related to the foreign-ity. In western mentality having no mercy to your opponent despite him being a newbie (or simply out-matching an opponent) is equivalent to humiliate him. And so they thought at first as "foreigners". It was a way to point out how Karuta differs from your normal sport, contrasting that first reaction of them, being-put-in-our-place statement, to the English-writing Taichi's team reaction, as intended in the way Kirarakim as so well explained. Out-matching them was a way to respect them instead of humiliate them. Despite I'm not sure I understood well what made click them to play seriously.

Anyways, talking about the foreign team, the quirk characterization was unnecessary, they were already well characterized, in terms of differentiation, just by their foreign aspect and the by the hakama alone. They added the local TV reporter the cheap trick and the fact that they were newbie. As I said it would be classier to having them as worth opponents, giving the fact that they actually are Japaneses so they don't have any problem with the language. In the end, despite their being a second generation they seemed foreigners anyways.
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Old 2013-03-03, 10:28   Link #616
FredFriendly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arya View Post
Out-matching them was a way to respect them instead of humiliate them.
This, I agree with. It reminds me of the other day when I was playing table tennis for the first time with my eleven year old grandson. After "humiliating" him with the first game (21 to 6), he wanted a rematch. I asked him if he wanted me to give him a handicap, saying that I could play left-handed. He said emphatically no, he wanted to win fair and square.

To me, letting someone else win (or at least lose less drastically) by inhibiting your own performance would be more humiliating to the opponent than beating them "fair and square" as my grandson put it.
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Old 2013-03-03, 11:14   Link #617
ahelo
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The Chiba Foreigners speaking Engrish then Taichi correcting them with his own Engrish was probably the highlight of the episode for me. Partly because the scene itself was unintentionally hilarious but also the fact that Miyano Mamoru did the whole engrish thing with Okabe too and I remembered "Hey sunnovabitch".

While the episode might seem a bit racist at first but it's directed fairly realistically. It's part intimidation and part Xenophobia but even I can't blame Mizusawa for it since I do also sort of tense up a bit (and think of a lot of racist remarks) when with a foreigner or even as plain as someone in a completely different race.
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Old 2013-03-03, 11:41   Link #618
hyperborealis
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The title poem is #7, which Mostow translates as follows:

As I gaze out, far
across the plains of heaven
ah, at Kasuga,
from behind Mount Mikasa,
it’s the same moon that came out then!

The poem was written by Abe no Nakamaro, a member of an ambassadorial mission to the Chinese imperial court. Apparently he wrote the poem in China, on the night before he commenced his return journey to Japan.

The idea of "the same moon" brings out the shared humanity between the Mizusawa and Chiba teams: they may live in different places, but the same moon shines on all alike. The connection between the moon of the present and of the past connects to Chihaya's recognition that her Chiba opponent is putting down cards the way she did when she started: the Chiba team is in the same place Mizusawa was, and so both teams are connected along a shared path of improvement, but are just at different points of time upon that path.

Finally, the fact that this waka was written outside of Japan, by a Japanese who is himself a foreigner among the Chinese, reminds us that "foreignness" is a matter of context. Any Japanese person, however he or she divides him or herself from strangers, can also be a foreigner as well, as Abe no Nakamaro himself illustrates.

It's worth remembering that Chihayafuru got its start with young Chihaya's resisting Taichi's efforts to ostracize Arata for being an outsider. Suetsugu's disgust with nativism has been consistent across the series.

A related point: I was struck by how Chihaya's opponent found himself shunned by his classmates for pursuing karuta. Suetsugu is pointing out how the pursuit of Japanese tradition itself makes any Japanese an outsider in the modern culture that has no interest in that tradition. Paradoxically the person who wishes to be a true Japanese in the cultural sense becomes in fact another gaijin.

As I have said before, Suetsugu's sympathy is always with the outsider, and never more so than in this episode.

------------------------

Favorite moment in the episode: Miyauchi-sensei's thinking "Finish them!" with that satisfied, cold-blooded smile! I love that lady...

------------------------

Like Quadratic, I was struck with Chihaya's reflection about Tsutomu's willingness to sacrifice his own chance to play for the sake of the team. It was a little curious that the animators showed Taichi in profile, with something like (not the same as) his NTR face, as she thought this. Translating what she said to the romance angle, I wonder if he will be called on to make that same sacrifice, and to accept "that someone who started later/ had caught up to me?"

------------------------

Curious that the animators are playing up the horror angle in depicting Shinobu. That lone, crooked hand reaching out to claw Arata was grotesque. Every time we see her, she is in a new incarnation. What is that all about?
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Old 2013-03-03, 11:47   Link #619
Kanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
Taichi obviously see Arata as friends. That is why he makes the NTR face. If he sees Arata as an enemy, he would be making sinister face and do underhanded stuff to Arata (like when he is kid). Taichi had always trying to be fair with Arata regarding Chihaya, and yet he knows very well Arata weighs alot more on Chihaya's heart compare to him, thus the NTR face........feeling sad, but not much he can do.
A rival, not an enemy. The distinction is important. I think Taichi does see Arata as a friend as well -or at least wishes he could-, but his feelings for Chihaya complicates their relationship and make him uncomfortable around him. Part of him is constantly scared Arata will steal Chihaya away from him, so the friendship between the two of them can't blossom. It is a real shame because they could get along very well. The final choice rests in Chihaya's hands anyway, he should stop worrying about Arata and simply do his best so he will have no regret.
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Old 2013-03-03, 15:56   Link #620
frodonk
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hmm, waiting for that episode where they'll finally explain what exactly is the relationship between arata and shinobu.

most likely it would be an "old rival who beat me once then retired when i got good and became queen" kind of story, but we'll see.
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